Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

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Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby RobRollin » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:26 am

A topic I have been reading about for sometime is power to weight ratio. And how a fine line has to be met to find the right balance between losing too much weight, therefore power and losing enough weight and not reducing your power.

Being 97 kilos, I am fairly heavy, but I also have great cardio. I've been back on the bike now for 4 months. Previously I played badminton competively in state tournaments in Tassie and Victoria, ex 07 Tasmanaian and ex 07 Victorian champ.

So my cardio and aerobic capacity are really good. Stamina and endurance is very good I have good strength in my legs and overall power.

UPDATE:

3,215 calories to maintain my current weight
Cut back to 2,715 calories per day to lose 500 grams a week.

I am looking into the benefits of meausring food intake vs weight vs power. Reducing my weight, therefore increasing my power to weight ratio. Over 15k.6ms Watts Average 260, Maximum Watts 304, heart rate sits at 140-146. Avg cadence 112. Average speed 37.4400 kmh.

Is there much information avaiolable on the benefits of measuring food intake, reducing weight while maintaining power output?
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by BNA » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:50 am

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Postby sogood » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:50 am

97kg badminton player? It must be a different level of badminton playing in Tassie/Vic :shock:

Weight/power ratio is primarily of relevance for climbing. If you ride flat, power is everything. So the question would be what kind of riding you want to be good at.
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Postby RobRollin » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:10 am

Badminton: my strength comes from my legs, I have great cardio, standing jump, horizontal jump, and fast reflexes. I currently play in B grade singles and doubles. Train under Max Wood, Level 2 coach (footwork), ex Aust player. With the added help of Murray Hocking, ex Olympian and Commonwelth Games and Rowan Henderson 4th in Open Singles in Aus. (tactics and placement)

I want to be able to climb efficently rather than with brute power. I can TT on the flats and undulating but when it comes to a climb, I lose my advantage having to drag weight up the climb.
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Postby sogood » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:24 am

Badminton: With all due respect to your achievements, but there's no way that kind of body build can be in for a chance at the worlds or in countries with strength in badminton. It's just as you won't find a top tier 97kg table tennis player or a 60kg rugby centre forward. Hence my comment that the sport must be at a different level.

I think the issue of being able to climb efficiently would have to be answered with a frame of reference. If it's just to yourself, then you just have to drop all the excess tissue that does nothing for you but weigh you down ie. Reduce your fat % and keep the muscle lean/fatigue resistant. But if you want to compare with others, then I suspect everyone is different and you'll have to find your own sweet spot. I have always found the following table interesting and you might too.

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Postby RobRollin » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:48 am

sogood wrote:Badminton: With all due respect to your achievements, but there's no way that kind of body build can be in for a chance at the worlds or in countries


No-one mentioned anything about worlds or rep Australia. I love training for badminton more than actually playing, and while I'm competitive in B Grade I''ll continue to play. I have no aspirations of competing in A grade or Open. Once I win B Grade in 09, I will only coach. I'm Level 1A coach.

That table is pretty interesting. I am looking for a scitiefic way of apporaching it as I have tried, reduding food intake = weight loss, some muscle loss and a grumpy Rob as I have a deficency in sugar. So I've been going about it the wrong way at times.
Last edited by RobRollin on Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hebden » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:31 pm

Hi Guys,

Semi off topic... Without forking out for a Power meter, how can one measure their watts? Are the Stationary bikes at the Gym accurate?
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Postby DanielS » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:15 pm

Hebden wrote:Semi off topic... Without forking out for a Power meter, how can one measure their watts? Are the Stationary bikes at the Gym accurate?


You can always time yourself up a hill and then put into a calculator like the one on http://www.cycle2max.com or http://www.analyticcycling.com

If the gradient is sufficiently steep then aerodynamics don't play much of a role, and the calculators are pretty accurate.

Wouldn't know about the stationary bikes at gyms.

OP - I have nothing to add, I've pretty much been 70 kgs my entire adult life, no matter what I eat or how much I excercise! (I have no doubt this will change one day)
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Postby sogood » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:23 pm

RobRollin wrote:No-one mentioned anything about worlds or rep Australia. I love training for badminton more than actually playing, and while I'm competitive in B Grade I''ll continue to play. I have no aspirations of competing in A grade or Open. Once I win B Grade in 09, I will only coach. I'm Level 1A coach.

That table is pretty interesting. I am looking for a scitiefic way of apporaching it as I have tried, reduding food intake = weight loss, some muscle loss and a grumpy Rob as I have a deficency in sugar. So I've been going about it the wrong way at times.

The level referred to the fact that you were state champions (ex) in your initial post, indicating that the standard in those championships are somewhat different to what's typical of this sport in many other countries, and within their state/provinces. It was just a comparison with similar levels elsewhere.

Back to topic. I suspect that you'll never know how your body would adapt at a different level other than to look at others with similar body builds. But you can always try. LA dropped a big chunk of weight and found a niche for himself and you might try similar. I guess the alternative is to accept what you have and optimize it for what your body is more commonly suited eg. Sprinting/TT.
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Postby sogood » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:27 pm

Hebden wrote:Semi off topic... Without forking out for a Power meter, how can one measure their watts? Are the Stationary bikes at the Gym accurate?

You can always find a steady grade hill climb and calculate your power using first principle. There are online calculators for this.

But unless you have a PM reading in real time on the ride, what's the point of knowing your exact value? Those gym bikes are typically not well calibrated but as long as you use the same unit, you can establish a program based on relative values from its output, and see your improvement or deterioration or time.
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Postby toolonglegs » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:32 pm

Do you know your body fat %?...if you don't want to lose muscle mass then you can only lose fat.Losing fat won't take away power but will increase power to weight ratio.Once you know your fat % you can work out how much can be lost to get to you ideal race weight....but quite simply you will never climb hills with the wippets.But you can grind them to a pulp on the rolling races.
On your daily intakes..no wonder I struggle to stay under 2000kcal a day if those are your figures :lol:
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Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:00 pm

While one can train in such a way to maximise weight (body fat) loss*, really the best thing to do is train to improve your sustainable aerobic power. As long as you don't eat crap and don't eat hideous volumes, then the weight will usually look after itself.

By not fuelling sufficiently, it reduces your ability to recover and train effectively, and inhibits your endurance and power (and hence the calories you can burn in a training session).

Get from a 2hr (AT) 150W rider (~1,000 Cal) to a 2hr (AT) 250W rider (~1800 Cal) and one can see how much easier it is to lose weight or sustain weight loss.


* which BTW has absolutely nothing to do with any mythical "fat burning zone" but rather simply riding as hard as one can sustain (over the longer term) for the hours you have available to train.
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Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:04 pm

Hebden wrote:Are the Stationary bikes at the Gym accurate?
In general, no.

A sheltered steep hillclimb is next best option, provided you have the basic input data to a good degree of accuracy (gradient, speed, mass of bike + rider etc).
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby Deanj » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:05 pm

RobRollin wrote:I am looking into the benefits of meausring food intake vs weight vs power. Reducing my weight, therefore increasing my power to weight ratio. Over 15k.6ms Watts Average 260, Maximum Watts 304, heart rate sits at 140-146. Avg cadence 112. Average speed 37.4400 kmh.

Is there much information avaiolable on the benefits of measuring food intake, reducing weight while maintaining power output?


I'd strongly consider looking at an appointment with a dietitian. Went to see one myself about a month a go and with a change in my diet (more amount of food and timing rather than types of food) I feel so much better. I feel like I have far more energy throughout the day and hane been training harder. The greatest improvement I've found though is with recovery.

Losing weight isn't hard if your dedicated but doing it right is the main thing.
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:16 pm

Deanj wrote:
RobRollin wrote:I am looking into the benefits of meausring food intake vs weight vs power. Reducing my weight, therefore increasing my power to weight ratio. Over 15k.6ms Watts Average 260, Maximum Watts 304, heart rate sits at 140-146. Avg cadence 112. Average speed 37.4400 kmh.

Is there much information avaiolable on the benefits of measuring food intake, reducing weight while maintaining power output?


I'd strongly consider looking at an appointment with a dietitian. Went to see one myself about a month a go and with a change in my diet (more amount of food and timing rather than types of food) I feel so much better. I feel like I have far more energy throughout the day and hane been training harder. The greatest improvement I've found though is with recovery.

Losing weight isn't hard if your dedicated but doing it right is the main thing.

Speak for yourself :lol:
What things were changed?.
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:19 pm

RobRollin wrote:I am looking into the benefits of meausring food intake vs weight vs power. Reducing my weight, therefore increasing my power to weight ratio. Over 15k.6ms Watts Average 260, Maximum Watts 304, heart rate sits at 140-146. Avg cadence 112. Average speed 37.4400 kmh.

Can I ask what these measurements were for?.Your heart rate seems very low if this was a test TT?.
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby RobRollin » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:34 am

toolonglegs wrote:Can I ask what these measurements were for?.Your heart rate seems very low if this was a test TT?.


I was just taking notes of my ride, I always write down all my stats from a ride.

My resting heart rate is at 62bpm, my heart rate whilst riding is usually at 140-145bmp, unless I am really working up a hill and it goes to the 160's.
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:55 pm

RobRollin wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Can I ask what these measurements were for?.Your heart rate seems very low if this was a test TT?.


I was just taking notes of my ride, I always write down all my stats from a ride.

My resting heart rate is at 62bpm, my heart rate whilst riding is usually at 140-145bmp, unless I am really working up a hill and it goes to the 160's.

Whats your max?...and age?.
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Postby toolonglegs » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:55 am

...or should you just throw your heart rate moniter away / tape it up and ride on perceived effort?...well at least till you get a power meter!.
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby RobRollin » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:44 am

toolonglegs wrote:Whats your max?...and age?.


I'm 31, 97 kilos, 5ft 9". Max Heart rate is 189.

I'm not sure of my body fat percetage.

From today onwards I am writing down exactly what I eat and drink over a week period, how many calories. And How much exercise I am doing and how many calories I am burning.

I need to eat 3215 calories a week, and to lose 500g a week I need to recude that to 2715.
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby Hebden » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:24 pm

RobRollin wrote:I need to eat 3215 calories a week, and to lose 500g a week I need to recude that to 2715.


You mean a Day... right?

Any opinions on the best way to measure you BF%? Is it calipers/skin fold? Or those fancy hand devices that send a small electrical current though you? I always found the electric ones to be a bit all over the place. Never tried the calipers...
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:48 pm

RobRollin wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Whats your max?...and age?.


I'm 31, 97 kilos, 5ft 9". Max Heart rate is 189.

I'm not sure of my body fat percetage.

From today onwards I am writing down exactly what I eat and drink over a week period, how many calories. And How much exercise I am doing and how many calories I am burning.

I need to eat 3215 calories a week, and to lose 500g a week I need to recude that to 2715.


You should check out Calorie King .com.au easiest way to do that...if you can stick to it unlike me :roll: .
I would think (but I am no expert) that you need to stress yourself a lot harder in training.
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Re: Nutrition vs Power vs Weight vs Watts

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:00 pm

Hebden wrote:Any opinions on the best way to measure you BF%? Is it calipers/skin fold? Or those fancy hand devices that send a small electrical current though you? I always found the electric ones to be a bit all over the place. Never tried the calipers...
Multiple site skin fold measurements done by a professional is a very good means to track changes realtive to overall body mass changes.
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