Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Who here uses pre work out pumps with their training and racing? I use Jack3d gives you an excellent pump, beta alanine (lactic buffer), creatine monohydrates to fuel the muscles and its very high in caffine which is great for getting you going... but avoid the post ride coffee, caffine overdose is not a pleasant experience I know first hand! Does anyone else use Jack3d, how do you find it? What else do people use?

Mikesbike wrote:Who here uses pre work out pumps with their training and racing? I use Jack3d gives you an excellent pump, beta alanine (lactic buffer), creatine monohydrates to fuel the muscles and its very high in caffine which is great for getting you going... but avoid the post ride coffee, caffine overdose is not a pleasant experience I know first hand! Does anyone else use Jack3d, how do you find it? What else do people use?

Pre workout supplements wont really work with cycling unless you are doing some sort of sprint training. As creatine only affects repetitive short burst training, unless you are doing this it wont really help except of course the amazing placebo effect. Caffeine can help in delaying the effect of fatigue but having before you start training i dont know its effectiveness but there have been tests showing that when you are fatiguing and your effort is decreasing caffeine can help bring it back to its peak. To be honest i would say mainly a waste of money unless you are doing repetitive sprints.

vander wrote:

Mikesbike wrote:Who here uses pre work out pumps with their training and racing? I use Jack3d gives you an excellent pump, beta alanine (lactic buffer), creatine monohydrates to fuel the muscles and its very high in caffine which is great for getting you going... but avoid the post ride coffee, caffine overdose is not a pleasant experience I know first hand! Does anyone else use Jack3d, how do you find it? What else do people use?

Pre workout supplements wont really work with cycling unless you are doing some sort of sprint training. As creatine only affects repetitive short burst training, unless you are doing this it wont really help except of course the amazing placebo effect. Caffeine can help in delaying the effect of fatigue but having before you start training i dont know its effectiveness but there have been tests showing that when you are fatiguing and your effort is decreasing caffeine can help bring it back to its peak. To be honest i would say mainly a waste of money unless you are doing repetitive sprints.

I use it for speed and power work so motorpacing, sprinting, and ergo sessions with a coach. I find it pretty effective as I have tried training with and without and definately notice a superior difference too great to be a placebo effect... I'm stronger, more focused and last alot longer before stamina and the lactic build up gets the better of me. I don't use it for K's because unless your sprinting and working in the high HR zones flushing blood around your body the Beta Alanine tingle doesn't go away and it drives you insane.

magnesium to aide muscle relaxing and reduce cramps, and electro-lights

oh and some carbs

BarryTas wrote:and electro-lights

I got some of those, they help me see at night

lethoso wrote:

BarryTas wrote:and electro-lights

I got some of those, they help me see at night

meh monday + Spelling = fail

magnesium and iron.
coffee before i ride (don't often have coffee when i ride)
just water when i ride.

Breakfast 4am - 200g processed bran, 300mls full fat milk & 30g brown sugar; triple double espresso
90 min ride
Protein shake on return; Vit C/Vit D3/Calcium & magnesium

It's got me to a BMI of 22 and I don't get hungry until lunchtime.

Not much to add, I've had supplement salespeople try and sell me beta alanine but haven't taken the bait, although I'm more into the endurance stuff. With regards to the caffeine, I read an article by Adam Hanson where he was saying that he unknowningly bought himself gels with caffeine in them and unusually for him, cramped badly in this years Nationals road race. Hes not a coffee drinker either so effect might have been increased. I've since seen it a few times cramps related to caffeine intake.

I use a few products I get from when I worked at a body building store. Jack3d, which is ok, but Scivation Novem pre ride, Sciviation Xtend during, and Scivation whey post ride for me!

I've mucked around making my own sports gel. Cheapest online gels are $1.30 for a 35g satchel.
My formula is as good as any commercial product and costs $0.27 for 35g.
Ingredients: maltodextrin, apple juice, cinnamon, NaCl, KCl, beta alanine, leucine, isoleucine, valine, caffeine, with jamsetta as the pectin and citric acid source.
It requires a bit of careful cooking to make it set to the right gel consistency, but recently I don't bother turning it into a gel. Just mix all ingredients, heat enough to dissolve maltodextrin, and put in a sports gel bottle.

A quicker gel is glucose syrup, honey, apple/raspberry cordial to taste, NaCl, KCl, BCAAs, beta alanine, caffeine.
Glucose syrup has shorter chain saccharides than maltodextrin, but is still longer than sucrose, so shouldn't spike blood sugar in dramatically. Combine glucose and honey and cordial, heat in microwave till warm and runny, add other ingredients. Stick in sports gel bottle, take only 100-200 Cals an hour.

After exercise, I do anything with protein and carb - jam sandwich, cheese and salad sandwich, chocolate milk.

The thing I am diligent with pre exercise is ensuring I start in fluid balance. Early morning rides mean drinking 600-1000mls before starting, essentially whatever got pee'd off overnight goes in before exercise.

Mikesbike wrote:Who here uses pre work out pumps with their training and racing? I use Jack3d gives you an excellent pump, beta alanine (lactic buffer), creatine monohydrates to fuel the muscles and its very high in caffine which is great for getting you going... but avoid the post ride coffee, caffine overdose is not a pleasant experience I know first hand! Does anyone else use Jack3d, how do you find it? What else do people use?

I suggest you stop using it immediately, and hope you dont get drug tested.
I'm assuming from your other posts, that you are a competitive cyclist?

Jack3D contains Geranium (1,3-Dimethylamylamine or Methylhexamine)......which is a banned substance

A bowl of muesli and a coffee.

Pre-workout supps are scientifically proven. My experience (with the right ones) has been they have helped fairly dramatically in races and high intensity training. Many top end athletes use them.

I use to work for Musashi/PowerBar and spent a lot of time talking with the biochemist. Their pre-workout supp which is marketed towards bodybuilders is actually more beneficial for cyclists, kickboxers, boxers, kayakers and runners etc

Most pre workout supps help reduce the build up of lactic acid, vasodilate (expand your veins so more blood gets to your muscles), make you more mentally alert and supply amino acids to your muscles to slow the onset of fatigue.

I'm not an advocate of Musashi/PowerBar but only mention them because I've had time with the biochemist. I know many other companies make similar products which are more beneficial to us than bodybuilders but bodybuilders like the hype behind them. I would be careful of US brands as they often have ingredients that are banned in sports. I've heard good things (but haven't tried) from brands like Bodyscience, International Protein, Balance, Gen-Tec (this one I'll probably try next).

I was involved in a study at Griffith University, Gold Coast with competitive cyclists on the effects of caffeine on athletes. It was a 60 minute maximal effort once a week for 6 weeks with 15 athletes taking part. We had to eat specific food and follow strict guidlines. Blood was taken the day before the effort, 90 minutes before, 5 minutes before then straight after. The study was published and this was the result....

If the athlete abstained from caffeine for 5 days prior to the effort and took 3mg of caffeine/kg of bodyweight 60 minutes before the effort they got a 5% improvement in performance

If the athlete didn't abstain from caffeine the 5 days previous and took 3mg of caffeine/kg of bodyweight 60 minutes before the effort they got a 3% improvement in performance

So if you take that and add extras like mentioned above then bam, it's legal performance enhancing using natural substances.

I save my pre-workout supps for races or early morning hard sessions.

There's also much more sports science that can be implemented for recovery etc that will give you an edge over your competitors. It surprises me the lack of nutrition science in the sport of cycling, this is a sport that benefits greatly from close attention to these topics but it seems most are either ignorant or too lazy

... or too confused. You can't on the face of it differentiate the bogus from the good oil. So much of the stuff touted is advertised under FDA regulation and they have to say "may" a lot. Then when you grep for info you get different emphasis, disagreement, different spin. It takes a lot of study just to know what is available. It's too hard and who's got time to experiment? Well most of us do a bit but that's what taking supplements is reduced to. We're spoiled by too much to choose from and an over abundance of free speech. The study of supplements should be a unit in Human Movements studies. Then you could just seek the recommendation of you're local gym personal trainer.

Supplements? Have a double shot of black coffee in a picolo sized cup and be merry. Most of these supplements are loaded with fillers that don't particularly do anything but sound good on the side of the can. The base ingredient is the same, and maybe taurine if you like the taste of cows testicles. Add some ginseng and guarana for good measure. Creatine just makes your muscles retain water. It's a filler, your muscles might look more defined but they are filled with water. Personally preworkout supps give me hardcore anxiety so I don't go near the stuff these days.

number21 wrote:Not much to add, I've had supplement salespeople try and sell me beta alanine but haven't taken the bait, although I'm more into the endurance stuff. With regards to the caffeine, I read an article by Adam Hanson where he was saying that he unknowningly bought himself gels with caffeine in them and unusually for him, cramped badly in this years Nationals road race. Hes not a coffee drinker either so effect might have been increased. I've since seen it a few times cramps related to caffeine intake.

It might help if you drink more water when you are using caffeine as a supplement because caffeine is a natural diuretic. It makes you piss and crap more often so you need to keep your actual fluid intake up. The cramping was most likely a direct result of dehydration.

Kronos wrote:Supplements? Have a double shot of black coffee in a picolo sized cup and be merry. Most of these supplements are loaded with fillers that don't particularly do anything but sound good on the side of the can. The base ingredient is the same, and maybe taurine if you like the taste of cows testicles. Add some ginseng and guarana for good measure. Creatine just makes your muscles retain water. It's a filler, your muscles might look more defined but they are filled with water. Personally preworkout supps give me hardcore anxiety so I don't go near the stuff these days.

number21 wrote:Not much to add, I've had supplement salespeople try and sell me beta alanine but haven't taken the bait, although I'm more into the endurance stuff. With regards to the caffeine, I read an article by Adam Hanson where he was saying that he unknowningly bought himself gels with caffeine in them and unusually for him, cramped badly in this years Nationals road race. Hes not a coffee drinker either so effect might have been increased. I've since seen it a few times cramps related to caffeine intake.

It might help if you drink more water when you are using caffeine as a supplement because caffeine is a natural diuretic. It makes you piss and crap more often so you need to keep your actual fluid intake up. The cramping was most likely a direct result of dehydration.

I find this rather confusing, because my habits don't change, if I have coffee in bulk or not!

Foo

It affects some people more than others particularly myself. Some days I drink coffee and my guts will almost instantly be rotten.

donna07 wrote:I dont know much about jack3d but i have been using Alpha GX7 for past 2 years. it contains huge amount of citrulline which reduced my muscle soreness as I am a marathon runner. But I must say it doesnt taste better than other supplement out there. Are you still using jack3d or something else? someone from above already replied it contains banned ingredients.

jack3d has had a revised formula some years back, to remove the banned substance. not sure if its still as good,
theres a boat load of pre workout supplements out there.

foo on patrol wrote:

Kronos wrote:Supplements? Have a double shot of black coffee in a picolo sized cup and be merry. Most of these supplements are loaded with fillers that don't particularly do anything but sound good on the side of the can. The base ingredient is the same, and maybe taurine if you like the taste of cows testicles. Add some ginseng and guarana for good measure. Creatine just makes your muscles retain water. It's a filler, your muscles might look more defined but they are filled with water. Personally preworkout supps give me hardcore anxiety so I don't go near the stuff these days.

number21 wrote:Not much to add, I've had supplement salespeople try and sell me beta alanine but haven't taken the bait, although I'm more into the endurance stuff. With regards to the caffeine, I read an article by Adam Hanson where he was saying that he unknowningly bought himself gels with caffeine in them and unusually for him, cramped badly in this years Nationals road race. Hes not a coffee drinker either so effect might have been increased. I've since seen it a few times cramps related to caffeine intake.

It might help if you drink more water when you are using caffeine as a supplement because caffeine is a natural diuretic. It makes you piss and crap more often so you need to keep your actual fluid intake up. The cramping was most likely a direct result of dehydration.

I find this rather confusing, because my habits don't change, if I have coffee in bulk or not!

Foo

Nope. The cramping has nothing to do with dehydration! The cramping is from the action of the coffee increasing the motility of your intestine. For most people, coffee is a reasonable laxative. Some are quite sensitive to the effect. If you are talking about body muscle cramping, the only link might be the slight enhancement of muscle contraction with caffeine in people who are not regular coffee drinkers.

BTW Drinking coffee will not "dehydrate" you on its own. Yes, you will probably pee a bit more, but it won't (on its own) change your hydration status to any significant degree. And if you drink extra water with your coffee, you'll pee that out too.

notwal wrote:... Then you could just seek the recommendation of you're local gym personal trainer.

Who has the number plate "PEPTIDES" on his Mercedes.
I am not kidding.

ValleyForge wrote:

notwal wrote:... Then you could just seek the recommendation of you're local gym personal trainer.

Who has the number plate "PEPTIDES" on his Mercedes.
I am not kidding.

Foo