Racing result would you leave this rest

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:32 am

trailgumby wrote:Forget this sort of amateur hour - go to a club that uses transponders, and buy your own.

No point having your own, they need to be compatible and a working receiver and software system in place.

trailgumby wrote:I'd also recommend using a Garmin and recording all your races with it. Besides providing useful training info, it also helps provide backup to settle this kind of argument.

As a commissaire, I would never accept what a rider's own computer says as evidence. Who knows whether it is properly set up / calibrated / functioning properly?
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by BNA » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:36 am

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:36 am

invisable wrote:After all the info and the responce I have been getting off people I will be taking your advice. I would not of mind if it was a club race but being an open NSW Cycling event I would of thourght that some sort of finish line recording "photo, transponder etc" would of been needed by regulations, it is not a hard thing to set up.

No it's not required. What happens when the technology fails? What is required are judges.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:44 am

Hi guys
let me go into it a bit deeper now i have found out some more info
1.The guy that won is not even in the photo http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format ... 79985933of the finish so I dont know where he was but his number was 68 and mine was 8 "could they have miss read it

2. I did claim my spot but was quickly dismised

3. the guy how came second made a claim for the win as well and he had 3 -4 riders backing him up but still no change in the results, the winner did not have any proof or back up from other riders but still they did not change the results

4. I was in frount from about 80m out or so, so they must of saw me coming in.

I know you can miss placeings on the finish line when its a close race and I am OK with that but to be completly missed is another story, I am more pissed about how they handled it just completly regecting all claims. this is not the first time this has happened in this club to me,

I have looked into the cycling NSW TECH and it does say something about haveing some sort of recording device at the finish line even if is a video of the finish is all digital now instant access, as for taking your hands off the bars its in the rules that its a no no but in this club I dont blame the guys as they wont get seen other wise.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby ft_critical » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:21 am

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You are the guy finishing on the left of picture right of track? That would be 7th or more, no?

Anyway, in a tight finish, you need to get another rider from the top 10 to corroborate your place.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:44 am

No, I am the guy in the black with the yellow stars on the sholder right in the middle of the track, the 3 - 4 guys in the forground are A - graders (NOT IN MY RACE) as I said I am not easy to miss. Sorry but dont know how to link photos for other web sites but if you look at the photos 2 or 3 before that one it is clear to see the order of the finish of my race.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:47 am

Just another point the girl to my right, left of me looking at the photo in black a fair bit smaller then me, got 5th in the results but still they mised me
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:06 am

It's pretty difficult for the organisers to get it right with a mass like that, it seems there were quite a few bikes with only a small separation
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:13 am

Hi Mike love you posts in other topic great read


mikesbytes wrote:It's pretty difficult for the organisers to get it right with a mass like that, it seems there were quite a few bikes with only a small separation


Even more reason to use some sort of finish line recording device but when mentioned to the club they are totally against it, I can not see one down side to useing them. Is there ?
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby Redbull » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:24 am

I think its time for this

There were no sheep stations involved.

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:35 am

Redbull wrote:I think its time for this

There were no sheep stations involved.

[img]<A class=vglnk title="Link added by VigLink" href="http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicv/vfiles25791.jpg[/img" rel=nofollow target=_blank vglnk_1318376925609="1">http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicv/vfiles25791.jpg[/img</A>]


I think your right have booked myself in for some therapy but it is all in relation I am by no meens a top rider only new to this, but this race was the pinical of my riding so far and being an open I held it quit high so to some out there it might seem not a big deal but to me it was. Just think how you would feel if there was a race that you were aiming for and it was the biggest deal for you so far, only to win or get a good place for all the your hard work so far only to be shot down by not even being reconised for you efforts. "sorenity now"
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:As a commissaire, I would never accept what a rider's own computer says as evidence. Who knows whether it is properly set up / calibrated / functioning properly?


Hi Alex
reading my situation and you being a commissaire, what out come would you have come up with on the face of it, very interested in your point of view?
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby fringe_dweller » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:55 am

invisable wrote: Just think how you would feel if there was a race that you were aiming for and it was the biggest deal for you so far, only to win or get a good place for all the your hard work so far


How would I feel? I would feel disappointed that I didn't get the recognition, but I'd also feel satisfied in knowing that I won and achieved the goal I had set for myself - regardless of what the club results said.
Let it rest, nothing that anyone says on this forum is going to change what happened and all you're doing is dwelling on it and becoming more agitated. Just focus on the next race, and back up your result with another strong finish.

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby nescius » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:08 pm

fringe_dweller wrote:How would I feel? I would feel disappointed that I didn't get the recognition, but I'd also feel satisfied in knowing that I won and achieved the goal I had set for myself - regardless of what the club results said.
Let it rest, nothing that anyone says on this forum is going to change what happened and all you're doing is dwelling on it and becoming more agitated. Just focus on the next race, and back up your result with another strong finish.

Grant


+1
Make sure there's no doubt in the next race :D
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:30 pm

Time to move on.
Thanks for all your views just wanted to see how others out there would of deal with it
At least I know now that "alleged" corruption and fixed outcomes are excepted, not much you can do about it, and not to expect to much next time. Next time I will try to win by a clear length so there can not be any confusion.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby mezla » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:34 pm

invisable wrote:Next time I will try to win by a clear length so there can not be any confusion.


A wise man once said: "Do or do not. There is no try." :wink:
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:44 pm

mezla wrote:A wise man once said: "Do or do not. There is no try."


I wish it was that easy
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby cp123 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:57 pm

you know what - it was a race. There will be others. Meanwhile thousands of people are dying every day due to poverty or illness. You and me spend more on our cats and dogs food in a week than some people can spend on food in a month. Be grateful you have the opportunity to walk and ride your bloody bike. There are thousands out there who would love to be able to move easily.

I guess I believe in don't sweat the small stuff. Prove your worth in winning by doing it again somewhere else. Spit happens - Unless you're paid by the win and can't afford rent for the next 6 months due to missing out on prize money, it d o e s n ' t m a t t e r.....
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:29 pm

cp123 wrote:you know what - it was a race. There will be others. Meanwhile thousands of people are dying every day due to poverty or illness. You and me spend more on our cats and dogs food in a week than some people can spend on food in a month. Be grateful you have the opportunity to walk and ride your bloody bike. There are thousands out there who would love to be able to move easily.

I guess I believe in don't sweat the small stuff. Prove your worth in winning by doing it again somewhere else. Spit happens - Unless you're paid by the win and can't afford rent for the next 6 months due to missing out on prize money, it d o e s n ' t m a t t e r.....


You could say that about any situation, there is always some one worse off. But the subject was not about world poverty just an oppertunity for a differance of opinions, thats all, but point noted there is always next year.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby mezla » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:44 pm

I totally agree with your sentiment cp123... and it's nice to see someone other than me say that! :roll:

...however... injustice is injustice, no matter how small, and while I (like you) wish people would prioritise their outrage according to the scale of the injustice (whether it be local or distant), we all only have one life, so that degree of humanism is really only ever going to appeal to a small number of saintly types.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby trailgumby » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:14 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
trailgumby wrote:Forget this sort of amateur hour - go to a club that uses transponders, and buy your own.

No point having your own, they need to be compatible and a working receiver and software system in place.

trailgumby wrote:I'd also recommend using a Garmin and recording all your races with it. Besides providing useful training info, it also helps provide backup to settle this kind of argument.

As a commissaire, I would never accept what a rider's own computer says as evidence. Who knows whether it is properly set up / calibrated / functioning properly?

Nothing difficult about it being compatible, and having a working receiver and software in place. I really don't understand the problem, it is very doable if you have the will.

The model car club I belonged to (NSWRCRCC) had exactly the setup I described, being the Dutch AMB i.t. system. We all had our own transponders, I think the units were $60 each and I had two, one for each car I ran, and they were compatible around the country and internationally.

I can't see ANY reason why it would not be feasible to do the same thing in cycling. All you need is a laptop, some software, the adapter and a wire loop to tape to the road.

This was over 10 years ago, I got out in 2001. The systems are only going to be cheaper and better now.

EDIT: Oh, looky :D In fact there isn't any reason not to do it in cycling. The US already has, as of 2008. See the following link: http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=3941

As for whether a rider's own computer is set up properly, you don't set up Garmins except to turn them on and press the start and stop buttons. Oh, sorry, you can choose 1 or 3 second recording intervals. The rest is calculated by the unit off the satellite telemetry.

Remember this is not a case of a timing difference, or him beating thenext guy by half a wheel, it is a case of his finishing not being recorded at all, if I've read correctly. He has independant evidence, the commissaire in this case has *nothing at all.*
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:33 pm

While the transponders are pretty good, they aren't perfect either, for example Ken Dinnerval 2010
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:47 am

trailgumby wrote:Remember this is not a case of a timing difference, or him beating thenext guy by half a wheel, it is a case of his finishing not being recorded at all, if I've read correctly. He has independant evidence, the commissaire in this case has *nothing at all.*

spot on, I would not of mind if it was a mix up in the places "these thing happen" but at lest then I would of had a chance to claim my place.

If clubs don't want to do the transponders because of cost ,Why can't the clubs just have a digital video cam set up on the start line on a tri pod and just hit record and leave it. digital cam start at around $250.00 not a big out lay in fact I would be happy to donate one, and at least then, they have something to go back to if it is a hard call and or if there is a claim but, Clubs seem to be against this as well, is there any reason for not having something like this ? I know all systems are not perfect but got to be better then nothing.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby cp123 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:17 am

dunno - you can raise that with your club and ask them. No point asking what we think - cos it won't be up to us to say nay or yay. If the camera was free they might say yes. But of course a similar situation could happen in another club's race without transponders or cameras too.


would i let your issue rest? abso-bloody-lutely I would. let it go - raise the camera issue if you are still aggrieved - but in the big picture of life one race does not bloody matter..... maybe you have no idea how desperate 2 pages of "but it was me who won" and "the club was corrupt" sounds....
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:44 am

Sorry cp123 for taking up your time
I thought I raised this topic in the right area, "Road Racing and Touring- road biking" I must be in the wrong place, but if you don't like the topic or the replies then its easy don't read them, If you don't like whats on TV turn it off or change the channel don't keep watching.
cp123 wrote:No point asking what we think

I thought that was the idear of these forums to get others opinions - my mistake
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby Rouleur » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:30 am

invisable - you have every right to be pissed, and i reckon its worth pursuing these things if you have the time and energy, just dont let it consume you.

We invest significant time, effort and cash into racing - and we expect that race jurys and complaints are conducted in a fair manner. You certainly seem to have been robbed in this case. I'd be pissed too.

Take it up with CNSW & CA, with evidence. Get a written response from the club. Show the club what a bad image theyre getting online - it will matter to them (it should).

Take it as far as you want, but when done, close the case. Then - and this is key, go and freaking smash them, week in week out - trust me, it will be way more satisfying. Use it for motivation to get better.
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