Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

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Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby Enricopalazzo » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:57 pm

Hi guys,

On monday I was racing and had a rather nasty crash - as I was going through a left hand high speed corner, I dont quite remember what happened but the rear end dropped and I hit the ground pretty hard (the usual road rash all up my leg). When I looked at my bike to check the damage, I noticed that my rear tyre had pretty much completely come off my carbon rim and there was pretty much NO glue left on the rim or tyre and just the valve extender keeping the tyre to the rim...

I have always glued my own tyres for around 2 years with no issues ever, so I am unsure how this has occured. Could it be from heat over time, over inflation, poor glueing initially (I may have rushed it upon reflection) or something else...?

Could I have simply been going too fast through the corner and the impact of hitting the ground pulled the tyre off the rim, or would it defintely be the case that poor glueing has caused this.

Thanks
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by BNA » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:38 pm

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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby ft_critical » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:38 pm

I saw a very experienced rider roll off a single at Heffron Park on a high inertia type corner. So you are not the first.

This does not help with a solution but it might help with the ego.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby Enricopalazzo » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:29 pm

Thanks

And trust me the Ego hurts bad, I broke away with 10mins to go, then had aprox 150m lead with 3 mins to go when I crashed, they werent going to catch me :(
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby trailgumby » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:26 pm

Slow puncture?
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby notwal » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:18 pm

Did you find the answer to that one? It's a bit of a worry if glue wont stick to carbon.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby trailgumby » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:58 am

On a re-reading, the absence of glue from both tyre and rim is interesting... you'd expect to see some dried glue on one or both of them, it shouldn't have all flaked off in the crash.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby Enricopalazzo » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:22 pm

I believe the problem occurred from a few things, firstly not enough glue used initially, and secondly over Inflated tyres.

But cannot be certain.....
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:28 am

Your first point........not enough glue is the root of the problem not high pressure! :wink:

The only time I rolled a strip was trying to jump a fallen rider in a sprint coming out of the home bend on the track and landing crossed up. :lol:

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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby rogan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:25 pm

ft_critical wrote:I saw a very experienced rider roll off a single at Heffron Park on a high inertia type corner. So you are not the first.

This does not help with a solution but it might help with the ego.


I don't ride or race with singles, but a rolled single used to get you a 1 month or three month ban. My worst crash at Heffron (but not worst injury) was at that tennis court corner, 45km/h, flat tyre, in the Australia Day race, 1992. Now, 20 years later I've still got very visible scars on my outer calf and hip. Luckily I slid straight out and the bunch was stretched out enough to not bring anyone else down/get hit from behind...

Ten years to the very day, my good friend Dr Jones did the same thing at the same corner for the same reason...
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:35 pm

It was the same 35yrs ago Rogan, plus a fine! :wink:

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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby Richard.L » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:09 pm

When did you last glue the tyre and do you ride it in the wet often? I remember hearing you are meant to reglue them every so often.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby Ross » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:19 pm

I was lucky the same thing didn't happen to me. I got a puncture in my rear disc wheel on my TT bike the other day, being a tubular I managed to finish the race even though it was flat (it was actually sort of a slow leak). So bought a new tyre and took it to LBS to get fixed (he undestands parts are much cheaper online and is happy to just charge labour) and the guy started pulling the old tyre off while I was there and we were both amazed that there was no glue on the tyre or rim! :shock:

I bought the wheel second-hand from eBay with tyre already installed and have been riding it for at least a year now. :oops:
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby PawPaw » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:20 pm

I've only been riding roadies for 6 years, and never tubulars. So have no idea, but am wondering how heat effects the glue. I leave my bike in the boot in the Brisbane heat sometimes, and I know it gets damned hot. My water bottles are essentially undrinkable if I've left them in the boot for 2 hours on a hot day.

Could heat degrade tube glue?
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby Be1 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:55 pm

@OP You simply didn't use enough glue for your tyre rim combo. Different tyre and rim shapes will require differing amounts of glue to get the same hold, a perfectly matched tyre and rim shape will require less glue whereas others require many layers in order to fill the voids between tyre and rim. I test the adhesion of my tubs by deflating them so they just have enough air to hold there shape and then try and peel the tyre off, if it peels away from the rim without your thumbs hurting or if you can see dry rim glue it again.

@PawPaw I have left my bike and tubs in the car in Brisbane heat many times and yes tubular glue is affected by extreme heat but due to its composition it simply softens (though it doesn't feel like it affects adhesion) and then returns to normal when it cools down.

Always re-glue second hand tubulars, too many people have no idea what they are doing. I once had a bike shop mechanic tell me half a tube of mastik was too much for a pair of brand new wheels and tyres :roll:
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby ValleyForge » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:40 pm

Carbon-specific glue is really important. The lack of heat dissipation on carbon rims makes them far hotter than alloy rims. This causes the normal glue to dry out compared to carbon friendly glue.

I've ridden tubulars since 1981 on at least 1 of my bikes (currently 2) and never had a roll-off. High pressure, daily pump ups, and yes meticulous gluing will prevent it.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:16 pm

You just taught me something Valley! 8)

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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby kayrehn » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:56 pm

Yes be generous with the amount of glue that you use, no point saving on that and risking an accident! My Vittoria CX corsa deflates very fast due to the latex tubes inside and its important to pump it up once every few days to keep the glue sticky.

Tubulars give you nice rides, glue them on properly and you'll be very happy to use them!
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby mateyboi » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:12 pm

Only started riding on tubular and what I fear the most if the Tyre rolling off during cornering. Coming off at 45km/h+ while cornering is pretty nasty.

From all the articles on the web etc etc, if are doing your own glueing best to follow the instructions from the manufacturer. For example the Conti carbon cement uses a completely different method than conventional methods. Using conventional method could cause a fail.

Also every time you clean your bike you should give your tyres/glue a check up.

Just be careful, it would be okie to take yourself out of action but don't take your fellow riders with you!
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby sogood » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:23 pm

Do the benefits of singles really justify all the extra work? :roll:
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby ValleyForge » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:44 pm

sogood wrote:Do the benefits of singles really justify all the extra work? :roll:


Sure do. Just look at my biceps & triceps from all the pumping up..... 8)
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby mateyboi » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:04 pm

sogood wrote:Do the benefits of singles really justify all the extra work? :roll:


Hah, That is another debate!

It definitely feels smoother and comfy to me but then again I've gone from alloy clincher rims to carbon tubbie rims so who knows.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby sogood » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:41 pm

mateyboi wrote:Hah, That is another debate!

True. I think I better not complex the thread. :oops:
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby jacks1071 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:40 pm

mateyboi wrote:Only started riding on tubular and what I fear the most if the Tyre rolling off during cornering. Coming off at 45km/h+ while cornering is pretty nasty.

From all the articles on the web etc etc, if are doing your own glueing best to follow the instructions from the manufacturer. For example the Conti carbon cement uses a completely different method than conventional methods. Using conventional method could cause a fail.

Also every time you clean your bike you should give your tyres/glue a check up.

Just be careful, it would be okie to take yourself out of action but don't take your fellow riders with you!


Long as your tyres are glued properly, rolling them is a non-issue.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby lynskey_rider » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:52 pm

The chatter and mention of the 'old days' of fines and a ban for rolling a single reminded me of what the old pro's at my club in Melbourne used to do.
Instead of using tubular glue (which stays tacky over time) they used to mix shelac (i think thats how it is spelt) crystals, which are used for furniture polishing, and mineral spirits to make a glue. The difference in this case is that the 'glue' dries as solid as a rock, and doesn't remain tacky like a tubular specific glue. It is cheap and easy to make up, and I have used it myself on aluminium track wheels, but if you flat they are slightly more difficult to remove.

Having said this, I have also used this method on cheap carbon rims with no ill effect. The only downside I can see is that the glue on the rim will be hard when the time comes to swap out the tyre. Just some food for thought, maybe some of the older members can comment on this method as I believe it was quite common 'back in the day'. I personally have had a positive Experience with this method . Whatever you do, don't go the tufo sticky strip things, they are dangerous IMO.
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Re: Tyre rolled off Tubular Rim through corner

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:00 pm

I never used Shellac in my day, only contact cement and white bostick glue. :mrgreen:

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