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Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm
by Mulger bill
jules21 wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Problem with discs on a roadie is that trendy radial spoking is a no no :P

shaun, that's not really that big a problem - if you're willing to pay the weight penalty of disc brakes, then what's an extra 10 spokes?

i don't see discs taking off on road bikes. but then, it's dangerous making those sorts of predictions :)


Now you've got me confused...

How does radial spoking alter the spoke count?

Nobody wrote:Remember the Goodyear ad on TV? "If it only saves you once a year...". To me, it's not about averages or how often, it's about that one time you're caught out in the rain and you have a car pull out in front of you while on a decent. For the sake of a few hundred dollars and some weight, I'll be less likely to need to reflect on the worst case scenario while lying in a hospital bed.


Yep, that's why I lashed out on a disc braked bike as a dedicated commuter. Might be overkill most of the time but 'tis better to be overgunned and not need it than the alternative. Not. Going. Back.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:09 pm
by trailgumby
DaveOZ wrote:
sumgy wrote:
DaveOZ wrote:Can't blame the brakes for lack of control by the user. I find discs much easier to modulate than rims.


So you have used disc brakes with 23mm tyres?
I dont find either easier or harder.


Yes, I have discs on my commuter.

As do i. Shimano XT 160mm and Conti GP4000s 700x23c slicks on both ends. Some increase in braking power, to the point where it allows 1-finger braking. I tried a 185mm rotor once on the front with Hayes 9 hydros and it was scary with road slicks. 160mm is about right.

However, much more important is the consistent all weather braking. Another thing I like is that when I wear out the discs, it's $40 per wheel for a new rotor instead of a complete new wheelset.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:51 am
by Drunkmonkey
Disc brakes are overkill on a road bike - its like putting 6 pot brembos on a Hyundai Excel :roll:

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:41 am
by sumgy
I think I would kill myself with that much stopping power.
I 1 finger brake with both my SRAM Red and Rival brakes as it is.
I also only run 160mm rotors on both of my 29ers and 1 finger brake with those.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:24 am
by ZepinAtor
sumgy wrote:I also only run 160mm rotors on both of my 29ers and 1 finger brake with those.


Yeh, but you only weigh 50kg & ride at 20 km/hr >>>sarcasm emoticon<<<

Like wise on my 29ers although my brakes are fairly high performance & my weight + style of riding come into consideration as well.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:30 am
by sumgy
ZepinAtor wrote:Yeh, but you only weigh 50kg & ride at 20 km/hr >>>sarcasm emoticon<<<


I think you are talking me up.
I have never hit 20km/h in my life. :lol:

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:52 pm
by Drunkmonkey
trailgumby wrote: Another thing I like is that when I wear out the discs, it's $40 per wheel for a new rotor instead of a complete new wheelset.


Dont forget the price of brake pads and fluid also before you have to replace that rotor :wink:

A wheelset wont last forever, not sure why you would want the same wheelset after 4 or 5 years - the bearing and spoke replacements, fatigue etc would all be starting to add up. And I sure as hell wouldnt want to ride on old wheels............

Its still cheaper to replace roadie brake pads and cables vs hydro pads etc.

And you dont have to bleed brake cables :mrgreen:

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:02 pm
by MichaelB
Drunkmonkey wrote:Disc brakes are overkill on a road bike - its like putting 6 pot brembos on a Hyundai Excel :roll:


Soooo, have you actually ridden a ROAD bike with discs ?

I'm with TG, have used discs on a road bike, and NOT. GOING. BACK.

QED.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:19 pm
by Drunkmonkey
MichaelB wrote:
Drunkmonkey wrote:Disc brakes are overkill on a road bike - its like putting 6 pot brembos on a Hyundai Excel :roll:


Soooo, have you actually ridden a ROAD bike with discs ?

I'm with TG, have used discs on a road bike, and NOT. GOING. BACK.

QED.


No the brakes I have on my road bike are sufficient for my needs, when I see the pros riding with discs on their carbon wheels I will think about it.........so yeah not likely :lol:

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:52 pm
by Nobody
Drunkmonkey wrote:
trailgumby wrote: Another thing I like is that when I wear out the discs, it's $40 per wheel for a new rotor instead of a complete new wheelset.


Dont forget the price of brake pads and fluid also before you have to replace that rotor :wink:

A wheelset wont last forever, not sure why you would want the same wheelset after 4 or 5 years - the bearing and spoke replacements, fatigue etc would all be starting to add up. And I sure as hell wouldnt want to ride on old wheels............

Its still cheaper to replace roadie brake pads and cables vs hydro pads etc.

And you dont have to bleed brake cables :mrgreen:
Don't assume that all disc brakes need to be hydro. Mine are cable. Avid pads are about $20. Cheaper than good brake blocks in many cases and sintered pads should last longer too IMO. Even if it was more expensive, still worth it. My understanding is Shimano should have cable discs for road bikes in about a year. Then we can start comparing road/CX specific components.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:02 pm
by Drunkmonkey
Nobody wrote:
Drunkmonkey wrote:
trailgumby wrote: Another thing I like is that when I wear out the discs, it's $40 per wheel for a new rotor instead of a complete new wheelset.


Dont forget the price of brake pads and fluid also before you have to replace that rotor :wink:

A wheelset wont last forever, not sure why you would want the same wheelset after 4 or 5 years - the bearing and spoke replacements, fatigue etc would all be starting to add up. And I sure as hell wouldnt want to ride on old wheels............

Its still cheaper to replace roadie brake pads and cables vs hydro pads etc.

And you dont have to bleed brake cables :mrgreen:
Don't assume that all disc brakes need to be hydro. Mine are cable. Avid pads are about $20. Cheaper than good brake blocks in many cases and sintered pads should last longer too IMO. Even if it was more expensive, still worth it. My understanding is Shimano should have cable discs for road bikes in about a year. Then we can start comparing road/CX specific components.


Sorry - I didnt realise mech disc brakes were still being used...............my bad!!

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:04 pm
by Mulger bill
How far does it take to get good power out of a set of Reds in the wet? I know it's not a problem most times if one rides to the conditions but Jesus moments don't care about the weather.
I brush the lever on my commuter and full retardation is immediately to hand. Sensitive fingers prevent lockup.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:10 pm
by sumgy
Mulger bill wrote:How far does it take to get good power out of a set of Reds in the wet? I know it's not a problem most times if one rides to the conditions but Jesus moments don't care about the weather.
I brush the lever on my commuter and full retardation is immediately to hand. Sensitive fingers prevent lockup.


Who is this retard that you have at your fingertips and how does he help stop your bike? :mrgreen:
I cannot quantify how far it takes but I have never had a Jesus moment even riding in all the downpour we had up here last year.
As you say, "ride to the conditions".

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:12 pm
by jules21
never go full retard

Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:46 pm
by toolonglegs
Sometimes you can't ride to the conditions... I have had few times in races in pouring rain on steep downhills where I have been on full brakes and nothing much is happening... Not pretty in a bunch of 100 or more!.
That's every lap for 2 or 3 hours... When they are legal and common I won't say no.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:29 am
by jules21
well i should have taken my own advice. riding the roadie into work today i was coming down past the ivanhoe boat sheds onto the pipeline bridge in awful, wet and debris-strewn conditions. in those conditions, my rim brakes were not much good, in comparison to the excellent modulation my discs provide (on the bike i'm usually riding to work). riding the rear brakes, the last bit gets steeper as you make the tight turn onto the steel bridge and i had them locked up - the rear wheel whipped around as i made the turn and i couldn't control it - running into the railing (again) at about 5 km/h.

in those conditions, discs > rims.

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:58 am
by Nobody
jules21 wrote:well i should have taken my own advice. riding the roadie into work today i was coming down past the ivanhoe boat sheds onto the pipeline bridge in awful, wet and debris-strewn conditions. in those conditions, my rim brakes were not much good, in comparison to the excellent modulation my discs provide (on the bike i'm usually riding to work). riding the rear brakes, the last bit gets steeper as you make the tight turn onto the steel bridge and i had them locked up - the rear wheel whipped around as i made the turn and i couldn't control it - running into the railing (again) at about 5 km/h.

in those conditions, discs > rims.
Well that is a quick and welcome change of opinion from:
jules21 wrote:I just don't find rim brakes to be that important - how often do you really need max. performance from them?
:P

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:11 pm
by jules21
lol.. my approach to that turn is so automatic that it was only at the last second i realised i should have been more cautious on 23c tyres and rim brakes, instead of 2.1" tyres and discs. ironically it was due to a seized disc piston that i was on the roadie today..

Re: Warning: Swisstop Yellow Fail

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:50 pm
by NotFlyingScot
68 posts Lou. You've created a monster!! :P