Maintaining higher average speeds?

For Roadies

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:29 pm

foo on patrol wrote:You sure you read your watch right? :?

How far was the distance and and how low a gear were you spinning? It's all relevant to the time but 11mins is a big difference it over a short distance. :wink:

Foo

Yeah, it's exactly as reported. I sweat my ring out storming home to get 49 minutes, and 60 was no specific effort (didn't engage the big ring without going down a big hill etc). 22kms, there are a few decent hills etc.
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

by BNA » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:35 pm

BNA
 

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:35 pm

Its 22km home Foo, including a few standing hills (or 34/23 gear soft outs). I generally spin 105-110 if I'm spinning for power, about 95-100 if I'm grinding. I'm 70kgs at 6'1". Don't have big thighs LOL

I've been doing some hunting online for free info, sounds like I've got to put a LOT more recovery days into all of this. Probably need to get a few more longer rides in as well to get the threshold effort improvements. I do find it interesting that I've done really well on the Saturday in the past couple weeks and intentionally done a roll home on the Friday. Probably need to incorporate about 4-5 rolling commutes a week amongst the brutal smashfests, but I think adding distance to the big days is going to be necessary to improve speeds overall. Even adding 5-10km would have to be better than nothing.

This is how it begins, isn't it?
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:05 pm

Xplora wrote:Holy moly, how time flies... pulled out a 280km week over 6 days, pounding out 35kmh on the flats without drama. Actually managed sustained 45-50 on the tribars on the way to the ride this morning. I've had very significant improvement, despite the prang in late July, and I think a lot of the progress is simply coming from pushing big gears as much as possible, and regularly sprinting off from the stops. I definitely need some better recovery strategies though. I don't really have any :shock:
Sadly enough, belting myself home takes 49 minutes at best, and I spun home specifically trying to avoid big efforts but maintain speed and I still got home in 60 yesterday. Topped 45kmh as well. I'm doing something wrong here :lol:


I'm trying to do the same as you actually. I did grab a 3rd on Saturday on one Strava KOM segment which really surprised me, I just couldn't believe how strong I was feeling on that climb. But the next morning I was feeling really flat, just didn't have the energy at all.

Sadly that's academic while I wait for the bike to be checked over and repaired after the accident on Sunday. My problem is managing my heart rate and a bit more HTFU. Compared to you, I'm much shorter and 66kg, so you've seem to have an advantage over me already.
User avatar
g-boaf
 
Posts: 4035
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Chris249 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:25 pm

It sounds like you were low on intensity earlier. With the greatest of respect to others here, in my experience you don't need too many kilometres as long as you put a lot of intensity into shorter runs....I mean throat-tearing, quad-screaming, oh is this what a heart attack feels like intensity. Around where I think you ride, that is a problem as going that hard in that sort of traffic density can be a big issue. You can get to Club B level (probably 57kmh sprint?????? + reasonable 25-45km TT ability) on about 130km/week if they are part hard ks and part "hard recovery".

The Time Crunched Cyclist by Chris Carmichael can be a good read. But in the end, if you aren't going to do the ks then the results are not going to be the same unless you aim at shorter distances and (in my experience) risk injury. He points out that you have to work as hard recovering as you do training.

PS sustained 45-50 on the tri bars sounds quick!
There are many types of racing cyclists. There is the sprinter, the rouleur, the stagiaire, the danser, the descender.... sadly, I'm a mediocre. :-(

2003 Cervelo P2K time trial bike
2010 Merida Cyclocross 4
2008 Giant SS/track
2008 Vivente Como roadie
Chris249
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:50 pm

Chris249 wrote:PS sustained 45-50 on the tri bars sounds quick!

Funny you mentioned injury... basically got tendonitis in my right upper back from a few pushups (literally) after a couple days of wet riding. Can't develop good posture and the rest of it when it is wet. Bit of a risk to get too comfy in the pitch black at 30+ on the wet path in the rain. I'm a hardman but I've had one too many prangs this year.

The tribar speed is easy to achieve when you do it a lot. Really got to pony up and get a different stem to get lower... the Madone H2 geometry isn't racy enough, strangely enough?!
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:13 pm

Xplora I would be doing the long rides at a sensible pace and the short ones is where I would hurt myself but not every day. :idea:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby poohkies » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:41 pm

i've started riding home from work 3 times a week in September then started riding 2 work and home a few times a week, now i'm riding to and from home most days, also doing velodrome on a tuesday or Friday (I don't ride to work on that day when i do that)

when i started riding to and from work i thought i was in a race going hard as i could, i was really really starting to hurt, and finding it hard to keep any sort of pace,

I spoke to a mate and started working on my heart rate, i can sit on the 28 - 32 km / h mark at around the 130 - 140 bpm i do this probably 6 out of my 8 rides a week, the other 2 rides i completely kill my self, go as hard a i can, but only do this twice once to work and on an opposite day ride home flat out! which i've been increasing my average buy 1 km each month so far.


I normally do a 60 - 80 km ride on a saturday ride with some mates, that's really just a pedal and saddle time ride, we do do some sprints against each other but it's really my easy ride, and just improving on distance and longer saddle time! I never ride Sunday! and on average am doing around the 220 - 280 km's a week, i've also started to take whey protien when i'm really hurting to help recovery, and noticed my diet intake of food is important to how well i do or don't ride!
Image
User avatar
poohkies
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:00 am
Location: Brisbane Kenmore

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:15 pm

140bpm!? Clearly I'm not a track cyclist because I thought I was going hard at 125...

Seems like I might have 3 good hard 20km rides available to me. Got some seriously brutal training in over the past couple of days, but had a couple days off as well which has been great.
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby boss » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:27 pm

I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.
boss
 
Posts: 1189
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:37 am

jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.

190... cadence?

You just stopped me from ever competing in a velodrome. Thanks for saving me a lot of time and money :lol: Slow twitch muscles etc.... I'm almost falling off the bike at 125 :idea:

I've been maintaining higher speeds by building strength in the lower cadences. 90rpm halfway up the cassette in the big ring.
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Chris249 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:32 am

Xplora wrote:
Chris249 wrote:PS sustained 45-50 on the tri bars sounds quick!

Funny you mentioned injury... basically got tendonitis in my right upper back from a few pushups (literally) after a couple days of wet riding. Can't develop good posture and the rest of it when it is wet. Bit of a risk to get too comfy in the pitch black at 30+ on the wet path in the rain. I'm a hardman but I've had one too many prangs this year.

The tribar speed is easy to achieve when you do it a lot. Really got to pony up and get a different stem to get lower... the Madone H2 geometry isn't racy enough, strangely enough?!


I suppose it depends on the definition of "sustained"; sustain that over a TT distance and you'll be wearing a national championship jersey! :-)

Out of interest, I should fix up the speedos on the TT bike and check the top speed in the aeros; my emphasis on TTs is maintaining a steady speed comfortably over 40 on the flat for 45 minutes or so.
There are many types of racing cyclists. There is the sprinter, the rouleur, the stagiaire, the danser, the descender.... sadly, I'm a mediocre. :-(

2003 Cervelo P2K time trial bike
2010 Merida Cyclocross 4
2008 Giant SS/track
2008 Vivente Como roadie
Chris249
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby DoogleDave » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:43 am

jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.


YIKES...190rpm+

If you don't mind, can I ask how you trained your body/legs to sustain that cadence?
Is it just slowly increasing your cadence during training as your body adapts to it or are there other training techniques involved?

Dave
2012 Felt F75 | 105 | ProLite Braccianos | GP4000S
Image
User avatar
DoogleDave
 
Posts: 519
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:56 pm
Location: Taylors Hill, Victoria

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Milar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:20 pm

DoogleDave wrote:
jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.


YIKES...190rpm+

If you don't mind, can I ask how you trained your body/legs to sustain that cadence?
Is it just slowly increasing your cadence during training as your body adapts to it or are there other training techniques involved?

Dave

I think (and hope) jimboss is talking bpm as in heart rate, not rpm as in cadence.
User avatar
Milar
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:42 pm

DoogleDave wrote:
jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.


YIKES...190rpm+

If you don't mind, can I ask how you trained your body/legs to sustain that cadence?
Is it just slowly increasing your cadence during training as your body adapts to it or are there other training techniques involved?

Dave

Spin the hell out of the pedals, and make sure you allow enough time for recovery between sessions. I've applied the same techniques to death metal drumming. But 190rpm is virtually inhuman... best drummers on the planet max out at 150rpm (beats per minute is twice as fast)... you're spinning the pedal 3 times a second.... :shock:
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby boss » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:23 pm

Talking BPM guys. Poohkies was talking heart rate, then Xplora quoted 140BPM and I came in and said that I can hold 190+BPM for extended periods.

Max cadence, no idea. I just aim for anything over 100 unless I want to grind.
boss
 
Posts: 1189
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:03 pm

jimboss wrote:Talking BPM guys. Poohkies was talking heart rate, then Xplora quoted 140BPM and I came in and said that I can hold 190+BPM for extended periods.

Max cadence, no idea. I just aim for anything over 100 unless I want to grind.

ahhhhhhhh. Thank God for that. I thought Jet Li had a BNA account :shock: :shock: :shock:

No idea on my heart rate. I'm thinking about caring more about it if I pick up a HRM and a trainer :)
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby boss » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:17 pm

Yeah you don't have much chance measuring heart rate while riding without a strap! That would be some samuri mind trickery right there.

**Imagines someone going flat chat and counting their heart beat simultaneously**
boss
 
Posts: 1189
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby 15wilsonwu » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:10 pm

Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?
I love riding, not training
User avatar
15wilsonwu
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 9:31 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:12 am

15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?


Depends on what stage you are in your training! :idea:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby Xplora » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:19 am

15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?

What are you good at? I can manage a short blitzkrieg over 45 minutes without much struggle at all... my commute is around 50 minutes long. Been doing it for a year. :idea:

Can I manage a 2 hour blitzkrieg? No. I need to build some extra brute horsepower to handle the brutal sprinting that tends to happen in the coffee shop sprint home... so I'm doing a bunch of big ring sprinting to train on my weak spot. Because realistically, I can ride 3 hours at a moderate pace, it's the sprinting that I can't handle. Build the platform, get good at what you aren't good at.
Xplora
 
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:25 am

Xplora wrote:
15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?

Because realistically, I can ride 3 hours at a moderate pace, it's the sprinting that I can't handle. Build the platform, get good at what you aren't good at.


Do half a dozen standing starts and sprints in this time and Bob will be your uncle after a couple of months. :mrgreen:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby g-boaf » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Xplora wrote:
15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?

What are you good at? I can manage a short blitzkrieg over 45 minutes without much struggle at all... my commute is around 50 minutes long. Been doing it for a year. :idea:

Can I manage a 2 hour blitzkrieg? No. I need to build some extra brute horsepower to handle the brutal sprinting that tends to happen in the coffee shop sprint home... so I'm doing a bunch of big ring sprinting to train on my weak spot. Because realistically, I can ride 3 hours at a moderate pace, it's the sprinting that I can't handle. Build the platform, get good at what you aren't good at.


I'm trying to get faster at the sprinting as well. Like you I can handle longer rides at a measured pace, but keeping up over 40km/h for a long time - I'm not great at that. I'm just doing a lot of runs on my favourite strava segment and pushing as hard as I can on the big ring as you are doing, but you are probably well ahead of me since you commute to work.
User avatar
g-boaf
 
Posts: 4035
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby southeastD » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:02 pm

I started road cycling at the start of August 2012, shortly one day after I struggled walking up 40 steps at a building.

I started doing 30km - 50km runs from Port Melbourne to Moordialloc (Beach Rd:)). My avg speed was about 16km/hr in the first handful of rides, it built up my heart muscle.

I continued to train every weekend (for Around The Bay 2012). I managed to complete 100km ATB with an avg of 24km/h (off my cycle computer). I was stoked :)

Now I complete Port Melbourne>Moordialloc>Port Melbourne in 28km - 30km/hr avg, depending on how I feel on the morning. I don't ride to work, however once a week, during mid-week, I ride a 500m hill in my area. It is a big hill for me, every time I climb this hill my heart feels like it's going to explode. I climb this hill, then go slowly on the flat for the next couple of milometers to catch my breath. Then I go back down and climb the hill again. I repeat this three times (my legs & heart ache like you wouldn't believe); after the third time I ride away from the hill for about 30km before heading home very sweaty and quite buggered.

This has helped improved my stamina and leg muscle. All up, I ride about 80km-90km every week, I hope to find time to put in more K's to build up more stamina. I aim to do 200km in next years ATB :)
southeastD
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:48 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby boss » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:40 pm

I've found that the better I've gotten at climbing, the better I've gotten at short sprints (45kmph) and longer sustained periods at higher speeds (35-40kmph).

I am not a strong/big guy (65-70kg, 5 foot 11), and have not done any intervals. Just riding proper big hills as fast as I can, regularly.

I might go for a few sprints once a week on the way home after work. But yeah... Climb, climb, climb (and descend, descend, descend!) for me.
boss
 
Posts: 1189
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?

Postby poohkies » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:17 pm

We don't have to many hills up here,

doing the velodrome training has really help sprints obviously, but I can hit 54 and that's about it, for about 200metres and i'm screwed, i'm been more concentrating on keeping my average over longer distances, saturdays ride was 82km at and average of 29, kept slowing everyone down as they tend to speed of and at the 50km mark they are screwed, we sat at the 30km/h mark and we maintainted that hte whole ride! was really happy

If you want to improve a heart monitor is a great thing to have, this will also tell you how your fitness is going! on my 80 km ride
i got the following info
z1 - Endurance 0 - 112 04:55
z2 - Moderate 112-148 2:20:41
z3 - Tempo 148-166 26:51
z4 - Threshold 166-184 :22 hit 170bpm
z5 - Anaerobic 184 + 00:00

I'll let your know what my heart rate is like tomorrow after velodrome training! i only do about 15km over 2hours but my god does it hurt!
Image
User avatar
poohkies
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:00 am
Location: Brisbane Kenmore

PreviousNext

Return to Road Biking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit