Titanium Road Bikes

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby Comedian » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:11 pm

Chatted to a guy with a lynsky helix today. It looked ok and he seemed happy. Ill admit my eyes glazed a bit when he said it was 7.6kg but I didn't get to ask him about his gear or wheels so that's probably a little unfair.
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by BNA » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:26 pm

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby BrisVegas » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:26 pm

Comedian wrote:Chatted to a guy with a lynsky helix today. It looked ok and he seemed happy. Ill admit my eyes glazed a bit when he said it was 7.6kg but I didn't get to ask him about his gear or wheels so that's probably a little unfair.


Did it have 32 spoke HED Belgiums on Chris Kings and SRAM Red? Mate of mine's Helix with that setup in XL frame size surprised me, that's for sure.
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby Comedian » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:36 pm

BrisVegas wrote:
Comedian wrote:Chatted to a guy with a lynsky helix today. It looked ok and he seemed happy. Ill admit my eyes glazed a bit when he said it was 7.6kg but I didn't get to ask him about his gear or wheels so that's probably a little unfair.


Did it have 32 spoke HED Belgiums on Chris Kings and SRAM Red? Mate of mine's Helix with that setup in XL frame size surprised me, that's for sure.

It was a very brief rolling encounter. Older gent... Only had it for a month he said.

I think it may have had an SRAM crank but that was all I saw.

I had to chase off after my mates and he didn't follow. ;)
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby barefoot » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:40 pm

Comedian wrote:Chatted to a guy with a lynsky helix today. It looked ok and he seemed happy. Ill admit my eyes glazed a bit when he said it was 7.6kg but I didn't get to ask him about his gear or wheels so that's probably a little unfair.


It's important to realise when talking about a 7.6kg bike that somewhere upward of 6.5kg of that weight isn't the frame.

Those same components, taken off the ~1.2 kg Lynsky frame and hypothetically bolted up to a 2.4 kg Long Haul Trucker frame, would still weigh in at a very respectable 8.8kg. World's lightest (and least practical) touring bike? :lol:

Of course, the frame is a relatively straightforward place to save or add several hundred grams of bike weight... but it's only one place. Wheels are usually heavier than the frame (even without tyres, tubes, rim strips, QR, cassette).

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby J Quinton » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:37 am

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but what's with the Baum bike names? Made in Australia but with names that are Italian?

Correto
Cubano
Romano
Turanti
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby biker jk » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:50 am

J Quinton wrote:Sorry to dig up an old thread, but what's with the Baum bike names? Made in Australia but with names that are Italian?

Correto
Cubano
Romano
Turanti


Unlike the Holden "Commodore". Fair enough it won't be made in Australia for much longer. I guess Baum Vegemite was less appealing.
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby J Quinton » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:13 pm

I guess Aboriginal names our out too due to cultural issues - but I think Aboriginal town names are fair play.

Monaro and Torana are obvious comparisons.

Parramatta
Murrambidgee
Ballingup


There's heaps of good names. I seriously don't get it. May as well buy an Italian bike.
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby biker jk » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:59 pm

Presumably Baum has done the research and found its target market would prefer to have bikes named after types of Italian espresso rather than aboriginal town names.
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby J Quinton » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:19 pm

With a five month waiting list, they've clearly got their wires crossed haha
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby chucknitro » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:34 pm

One problem with aboriginal names is getting your Djugaragyn mixed up with your Djaradjung :)
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby Muzza72 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:13 pm

J Quinton wrote:I guess Aboriginal names our out too due to cultural issues - but I think Aboriginal town names are fair play.

Monaro and Torana are obvious comparisons.

Parramatta
Murrambidgee
Ballingup


Do you mean Tarana,Murrumbidgee and Balingup?
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby rodneycc » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:13 am

Dont mind the new Cell naming scheme. I.e Brunswick, Omeo, Akuna, Uranus (no only kidding that last one :-) )
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:47 am

rodneycc wrote:Dont mind the new Cell naming scheme. I.e Brunswick, Omeo, Akuna, Uranus (no only kidding that last one :-) )


That's a bummer of a name! :shock: Sorry, it had to be said! :lol:

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby rodneycc » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:30 am

12 Giant Defy Comp; 12 Spec Roub Elite
13 Giant TCR Adv SL;13 BMC SLR01
13 Giant Talon 29er;13 XACD Ti Di2
14 Bianchi Inf CV
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby Wingnut » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:23 pm

My training bike...would like to update to 11spd but in no rush...

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby gabrielle260 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:06 pm

Wingnut wrote:My training bike...would like to update to 11spd but in no rush...

ImageImageImage

I recognise that bike!
Looks good!
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby boss » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:29 am

I love the Cyrene with etching. Would like to pick one up one day, but a lot of the time I find they are selling complete with fairly average, dated build kits for too much money.

This is what I'm riding at the minute, I've had it for just under 12 months and put about 13,000km on it. It's really nice, a keeper for sure.

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby boss » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:39 am

Also just scrolled up a bit, saw some discussion on weight.

Back when I had a heavier saddle, slightly heavier fork but slightly lighter wheels I think my Moots was somewhere around 7.4kg with pedals. Not super light, but I have never found myself wanting for a lighter bike on a climb.

There is something to be said about trading a few hundred grams in weight for a bike that can stand up to a crash or two and still be ridden with confidence.
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby Wingnut » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:29 am

boss wrote:I love the Cyrene with etching. Would like to pick one up one day, but a lot of the time I find they are selling complete with fairly average, dated build kits for too much money.


Yep...that's because they're so damn good, solid with great geometry...regardless of the kit...
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby boss » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:43 am

Wingnut wrote:
boss wrote:I love the Cyrene with etching. Would like to pick one up one day, but a lot of the time I find they are selling complete with fairly average, dated build kits for too much money.


Yep...that's because they're so damn good, solid with great geometry...regardless of the kit...


Sure they're nice... like I said I am a fan!

But not worth $3-5k with 3-4 gen old ultegra-ish group, cheap wheels and a build kit... all of which are worth close to zero, leaving no opportunity to recoup against the purchase price. And more often than not, that's how they seem to be built. Period correct for the mid-late 00's hasn't matured enough to be fashionable :P

I've seen the frames go for between US$1-1.5k which I think is about right for what we're talking about. I've just not yet had the optimal combination of bank balance, correct size on offer and shed space. There are a few forums that I keep an eye on that have some really top-notch hardware at what would be considered fair prices, and then of course there's eBay. And if you're feeling lucky... Craigslist.

But like I'm alluding to, the Titanium second hand market being what it is (esp. in Australia), you get sellers asking silly money for bikes/frames. There's a 58 Cyrene on the 'bay stateside for US$3k, which is absurd.

(If anyone wants a Cyrene frame, any size, give me $3k and I'll supply it for you :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby Comedian » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:34 am

Well nearly two years on - I am convinced that the reason why Titanium bikes are not more common is just because they make the bike industry uncomfortable. They are not bikes for people who enjoy the process of buying a new bike every year or two out of necessity.

I've got a very stiff Italian (well brand anyway) bike. It's great... it feels really fast. However to get that speed it's brutal.. so harsh it damaged my sitbones. :shock: Not a hint of compliance.. and not a great bike for riding anywhere other than a crit track. I've come across another titanium bike by lynskey. It's every bit as stiff and fast - but magically compliant. I haven't weighted the two but I think with similar components it's lighter. Cost was actually cheaper.

Anyway, each to his own. At a local road race we noticed that there was 4 ti bikes out of 16 in one grade. Maybe the word is getting out...
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby biker jk » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:17 am

Comedian wrote:Well nearly two years on - I am convinced that the reason why Titanium bikes are not more common is just because they make the bike industry uncomfortable. They are not bikes for people who enjoy the process of buying a new bike every year or two out of necessity.

I've got a very stiff Italian (well brand anyway) bike. It's great... it feels really fast. However to get that speed it's brutal.. so harsh it damaged my sitbones. :shock: Not a hint of compliance.. and not a great bike for riding anywhere other than a crit track. I've come across another titanium bike by lynskey. It's every bit as stiff and fast - but magically compliant. I haven't weighted the two but I think with similar components it's lighter. Cost was actually cheaper.

Anyway, each to his own. At a local road race we noticed that there was 4 ti bikes out of 16 in one grade. Maybe the word is getting out...


Which model Lynskey?
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby boss » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:08 am

Comedian wrote:Well nearly two years on - I am convinced that the reason why Titanium bikes are not more common is just because they make the bike industry uncomfortable. They are not bikes for people who enjoy the process of buying a new bike every year or two out of necessity.

I've got a very stiff Italian (well brand anyway) bike. It's great... it feels really fast. However to get that speed it's brutal.. so harsh it damaged my sitbones. :shock: Not a hint of compliance.. and not a great bike for riding anywhere other than a crit track. I've come across another titanium bike by lynskey. It's every bit as stiff and fast - but magically compliant. I haven't weighted the two but I think with similar components it's lighter. Cost was actually cheaper.

Anyway, each to his own. At a local road race we noticed that there was 4 ti bikes out of 16 in one grade. Maybe the word is getting out...


Funny you say that re: compliance. Tyre pressure for Tyre pressure, I have found my Moots to be pretty uncompliant. I have a Trek Madone that is noticeably more compliant. Must of been a pretty heavy carbon rig for a ti one to be lighter... My Moots with DA and all the good fruit is slightly heavier than an off the shelf 5 series Madone with Ultegra! Maybe time to hit the scales of truth... :P

Personally I think why the industry likes carbon is that its damn cheap to mass produce. Skills and raw materials are so, so, so much cheaper.

Titanium did make a go of it in the 00's with some nice high-end frames produced by Colnago, Bianchi et al but once Carbon showed some maturity, it was game over. The raw material costs are just way too high.

Compare contrast no-name titanium vs no-name carbon from China. You're talking double to triple the price for Titanium.

I'll also add in there that once you really start driving the weight down on Titanium they get just as temperamental as carbon. There are only a small handful of frames that get close to 1000g and they're simultaneously uncompliant and noodley. And not particularly robust in a crash situation.

I'm sure there's an element of cynical built-in-obsolescence too, but the driving force to moving from metal to plastic was manufacturing economics.

At the end of the day, if your concern is performance, titanium is better.

If you care about having a bike for a long time and like nice things, Titanium is worth considering.
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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby barefoot » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:26 am

For me, titanium's "killer app" is custom geometry.

Carbon needs expensive mold tools. The first frame costs big, big, big money. The second, third, ten-thousandth frames are very cheap.

For those of us who are cursed with outlying body proportions, there's a limit to how much tweaking we can do to the fit on a standard-fitting carbon frame. Long cantilevered seatposts or stumpy stems or towering stacks of headset spacers... they're a compromise to how the frame is supposed to ride and handle.

A frame that's made by joining cut tubes together can be made whatever size and whatever proportions you like. And whatever strength you like, if that's a concern. The first in a series of welded frames is barely any different in manufacturing cost than the next.

If I need a frame made by joining cut tubes together, the best cut tubes I can get are titanium tubes.

I probably wouldn't bother with a Ti frame that has the same geometry as an existing carbon frame. There are swings and roundabouts, but at the end of the day I think carbon is probably the better road frame material for most people who fit on them. But if you need custom... that's when you need to take a serious look at Ti.

My custom Chitanium frame has a 54cm (equiv) seat tube, a 50cm (equiv) top tube, and about 200mm head tube. The front end is ridiculously tall and close - for most people - but I still get lower on it than most people get on their "slammed" production race frames (I feel the wind blowing along my back when I'm in the drops). That's the reality of short arms for you. To fit a production frame, I somehow need to add a whole heap of stack and/or reduce a whole heap of reach... which generally ends up being a short riser stem on top of a pile of spacers, often on a frame that's "too small" for me so requires a long seatpost. However that frame rides for normal people who fit it properly - it's not going to ride like that for me.

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Re: Titanium Road Bikes

Postby Wingnut » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:42 pm

Custom geometry in titanium and carbon are both rare and expensive in Oz...but both in custom are available in the U.S. Or Europe...there is Baum here but they're not totally custom with regards to paint design etc...
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