Vander's Tour to Canberra

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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:31 pm

Somehow still did over 10hours this week of just easy stuff hopefully after another solid week of easy rides I will be able to start adding in some intensity but really worried about starting again too soon and just sending myself down the spiral again. Anyone got any tips about how I will know when I am ready?

Still making a bit of progress.
HR: 126
Pwr: 146 (165 NP)
Decoupling (AT) -15% however it was only 1 hour 15 so not really applicable.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Something else I have heard recently is Canberra tour may not run as they are struggling to get sponsors. Their website hasnt been updated in a while and still no entry or anything that was worrying me. Anyone heard anything about this?
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by BNA » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:41 am

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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby nescius » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:41 am

vander wrote:Something else I have heard recently is Canberra tour may not run as they are struggling to get sponsors. Their website hasnt been updated in a while and still no entry or anything that was worrying me. Anyone heard anything about this?

I've heard that it will likely be postponed, no official word yet so keep an eye on the website, I would expect some information to come out soon.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Strawburger » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:49 am

nescius wrote:
vander wrote:Something else I have heard recently is Canberra tour may not run as they are struggling to get sponsors. Their website hasnt been updated in a while and still no entry or anything that was worrying me. Anyone heard anything about this?

I've heard that it will likely be postponed, no official word yet so keep an eye on the website, I would expect some information to come out soon.


It was like that last year as well. There was a Canberra cycling club meeting at about this time last year to decide whether to go ahead. They struggle for organisers apparently. Last year i think they paid someone hence the additional sponsorship required. They are probably going through the same thing this year. No word on any special meeting yet.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby nescius » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:08 am

Canberra Tour 2012 postponed :(

Regrettably due to a number of contributing factors, not least of all the current road conditionson the planned courses due tothe extensive rain across the region, the 2012 Canberra Tour scheduled for May 4-6 this year has to be postponed to later in the year.


While the exact date is not secured, it would be anticipated that the event would be run on the 28th, 29thand 30thof September, pending road approvals. This is not a decision that the committee has made lightly but as it stands now the conditions of the roads in and around the infamous hills of the Cotter/Urriara region are not ideal for running a bike race.


On the positive side the new date may provide that little more motivation to train through the winter period and may work well as a lead up to race such as Tour of Bright.


The committee apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused people in their training plans and look forward to seeing people at the race in September.

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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Strawburger » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:42 am

Aaaaarrrrggggghhhhh!!!!!!! 6 months of training out the window :cry:
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby mjd » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:09 am

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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:40 pm

Kind of good news with my really interrupted schedule I dont think I would of done B grade. I am thinking the plan now may be tour of Tweed (B or C dont know what the quality is like), the the Xstrata hunter thing (anyone know what this is like). Then build again and try and hit Tour of Canberra and Tour of Bright later in the year. Really rough plans after 5 min of looking. I think I may also try and do really well at RAW here in Sydney. What do you think?

Still doing Bathurst hill climb and crits and the moment and will probably do B2B now maybe even the 160km course.

Looking at around the end of Sept there is Sydney road champs and Goulburn to City might be a good time to peak.
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Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:05 pm

Bawbaw classic?.
Certainly sux though if it was one of your big goals.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Porridgewog » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:42 pm

How about the Masters. Oh forgot your a whiper snapper...gutted for you about Canberra but the extra time may well be what you need. Depth of training is better in the long run. What grade crits at bathurst you doing....B grade at eastern creek tonight we averaged 43.6!!!!
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:13 pm

Dont really know what to do now. My hr is still quite high on the training rides and I am still feeling pretty tired all the time. It has been over a month now I went to the docs he thinks its something else not over training and waiting on tests on my thyroid. I feel like my high hr on my rides is due just to loss of fitness I find myself breathing now when I wouldnt of been before (eg walking up hills). Really over what is going on its so frustrating. Anyway im adding in a few 20min efforts at some stage this week I have Orica on the weekend which I thought I would be fine for but am not and I think im still going to do Bathurst hill climb and crit but not the B2B. The after that I am thinking I will start the build again to hit September hard. Really cant wait to find out what is wrong with me/to be feeling better.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:12 pm

Try not to lose motivation Vander, maybe you just dug yourself into too deep a hole... I have done similar and has taken a couple of months to feel like training is getting me somewhere again.
Just keep the k's ticking over until either you feel better or the doc's find something.
If you are not on form I wouldn't be too worried about 20 minute intervals etc... bit pointless if you are too fatigued... SST etc if you can handle it maybe.
Good luck.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:25 pm

Got C grade for Orica after having not ridden at anymore then 25km/h for a month pretty worried about this race. Primary goal is to make it to the end if I do I get to see how affected my sprint is which should be interesting.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Porridgewog » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:11 am

Least in "C" you should be able to control your effort throughout the race and pace yourself.......you know you will pull everything out at the end....
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:43 pm

Did Orica C grade today probably would of finished in the bunch but had a mechanical and lost about 150m and couldnt catch it back up. On a funny note I held 197avg hr for 3min 50. Pretty epic. My power numbers were well down but im hoping 2-4 weeks and ill get back what I lost.

NP a measely 265 for 178 avg HR. Although it looks hard HR wise I actually felt quite comfortable in the bunch, my legs are still there or pretty close, just the heart needs a bit of training.

Start training proper again Monday will go for an easy spin tomorrow.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Porridgewog » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:34 am

Sounds encouraging...HR is a funny thing mate......"C" at eastern creek on the days i won average was well in the 175 area...for 39kph average.......then first "B" at eastern 43.6kph average same heart rate......masses more effort same average...think you just need to ignore the heart rate a little and see how you feel instead and just work into it ...how do you fancy the Tour of august too....Ps..46 average for a guy feeling crap aint that bad mate......think you need to work on your confidence aswell as your body now and all will be good.....
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:25 am

Porridgewog wrote:Sounds encouraging...HR is a funny thing mate......"C" at eastern creek on the days i won average was well in the 175 area...for 39kph average.......then first "B" at eastern 43.6kph average same heart rate......masses more effort same average...think you just need to ignore the heart rate a little and see how you feel instead and just work into it ...how do you fancy the Tour of august too....Ps..46 average for a guy feeling crap aint that bad mate......think you need to work on your confidence aswell as your body now and all will be good.....


It was only 40ish not 46 (I wish) like those strava segments say as they are for a longer course then we did. Tour of August I wont peak for and will hopefully be riding A by then so I am no hope :). The plan was to do group rides (do a hard one so im struggling to hang on and not worried about power and HR) for a few weeks but the group rides around SOP might not be on or will be messed around with because of the easter show. I think im still going to sign up for all the Bathurst races hopefully in 3 weeks I have most of what I lost back.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Porridgewog » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:41 pm

Well Marconi are looking to do the drag strip under lights on a tuesday night one or two times a month.....and of course you have the kurrajong classic in september....i too want to go into next summer in "A" major diet starting tomorrow....aiming for 80-85....thats a 10-15 drop....keep my legs and see if i can get 70 in a sprint :wink: Aiming to try the Masters champs later on in the year too......just to get a benchmark and aim is to get through the heats into the final....Wonder if waratahs would let you run round on a sunday morning if you promise not to sprint....
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:56 pm

Porridgewog wrote:Well Marconi are looking to do the drag strip under lights on a tuesday night one or two times a month.....and of course you have the kurrajong classic in september....i too want to go into next summer in "A" major diet starting tomorrow....aiming for 80-85....thats a 10-15 drop....keep my legs and see if i can get 70 in a sprint :wink: Aiming to try the Masters champs later on in the year too......just to get a benchmark and aim is to get through the heats into the final....Wonder if waratahs would let you run round on a sunday morning if you promise not to sprint....


Doubt they would let me :? . Would be interesting to see what power you were putting out in a sprint, hitting 70 I think would win you most races in Sydney. I need to get my eating under control kind of half started that today starting properly with my return to a training program tomorrow. I am thinking come Sept there are a number of races so maybe a month of peaking then would be good.
Goulburn to City
Kurrajong/NSW Road Champs
Australian Uni Games
Canberra Tour.
Im thinking with those 4 events might be a good time to peak. Which gives me a good 5 months to get myself good again then back to peak form.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:55 pm

Did a real session today and felt amazing. Did 2x20min. I did them at about 250W each and I was pleased that I was able to finish them. I found as with the race my HR was really high but it didnt feel that bad. First set was worse then my second also but it was just marginal. One thing that has changed a lot was it took the full 5min for my HR to get below 140 in between the sets which it probably would of taken 1min before to do.

First set 256W for 177HR
Second set 255W for 175HR
I purposely negative split the second one doing the first half between 220-250 and second half 250-280 and it felt good. All in all probably a loss of 50 or so watts but I have a feeling they will be back pretty quickly next goal 350W for 20min :)
Ahh it feels good to be going again.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Aussiebullet » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:02 am

vander wrote:Did a real session today and felt amazing. Did 2x20min. I did them at about 250W each and I was pleased that I was able to finish them. I found as with the race my HR was really high but it didnt feel that bad. First set was worse then my second also but it was just marginal. One thing that has changed a lot was it took the full 5min for my HR to get below 140 in between the sets which it probably would of taken 1min before to do.


One thing you may want to consider is that when your hr was much lower during previous intervals could very well have been that when we are fatigued and digging a training hole it is much harder to get HR up even though power is not affected and HR drops fast after stopping interval due to being so fatigued, but remenber we are very fit at this point just not very fresh (fatigued).

When we are rested and fresh our HR is is much higher both during and between intervals yet or percieved effort is much lower,this is a good thing as faster hr is actually helping recover quicker but some people may confuse this with low fitness or ilness which MAY be the case but not always, which is why many people who train with power throw their HRM away becuase it just muddies the water.

I realise your not putting out the same wattage you were for the same HR but that is expexted with the time off you've had,
so don't be surprised when your power rises that your avg HR might be higher for your intervals, given the HARD training and racing you were doing as well as dieting it would be no surprise if you were used to training while your HR was continually depressed until the point your body eventually gave out from fatigue which it did.

One example of this I can give with years of data is the day before a race when tapered or just really well rested I always go out and do an opener to blow the cob webs out and I feel so strong like I could snap the cranks in half but the HR is sky high,
this is when I know I've got good "fitness and freshness" = "good form".

My point is that HR is not a very good or consistant measure of fitness, power alone is a much better tool.
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Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:14 pm

Maybe... But 5 minutes or more for hr to drop below 140 bpm after a pretty low powered 20 minute is not great... Still something going on?.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Aussiebullet » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:52 pm

Maybe, but remember that would be a low 20min power compared to where he was before he stopped training, and has only ridden low intensity since until recently so without knowing what his ftp is right now that could have been quite a hard effort to recover from so who knows just yet.

But if I stop training alltogether for a week or 2 then come back easy then there is a LOT of fittness to regain and my HR is through the roof when l hold threshold for the first week or 2 and doesn't come down like it would when really fit and drilling L4 and up several times a week.
I have been following this thread with interest and wasn't surprised when the original Blood tests showed nothing,
been through similar stuff years ago and ended up going through 4 docs and numerous tests that all said I was as heathy as a horse, Most GP's don't have a good understanding of endurance athletes and how hard they train and the effects it has on the CNS and immune system and can offer little help or advice.

I do hope Vander regains his lost fitness and then some, but don't rely too heavily on HR to guage fitness as it is not a measure of fitness, power or performance is and if his power and performance continues to rise and HR stays about the same and he still feels good.... what then? stop training because his HR is still higher than he would like?

I just don't know what other advice to give other than be patient and keep at it if you feel good.

Brian.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 pm

Really tired again today. Planned to get up for a group ride this morning canned that when the alarm went off. When the alarm went off the second time I couldnt believe it was so soon. 9 hours sleep and still tired.

Brian I get what you are saying and I do agree with that, that is why I was pretty happy with the session to me 50W loss wasnt too much and I expect it to bounce back pretty quick and the higher HR was to be expected as I was fresh. However I still think it would drop pretty fast the slower it is to drop the less fit you are (less dependant on freshness) so I have lost a lot of cardiac fitness. What ended up happening with you when you were going through the same thing? Was it just over training?

Ill be back to the docs on Thursday after I have done 2 weeks on the sleeping drugs he gave me. Should I maybe ask for a referral to a sports doc as they might know more what they are doing?

Anyway off for a light spin for me.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Aussiebullet » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:47 pm

Sent you a pm vander!
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Strange Rover » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:58 pm

Hey Vader...I think, at this point, you really need to be judging your progress by how your body reacts/feels after each training session. So your 2x20 (AT) 250 seems way too much.

So what sort of rides have you been doing up to this point? Still low intensity - 150w stuff? Is this the first session of intervals? If you have been riding endurance at 150w and everything feels fine then a 150w endurance (IF of .7 say) equates to threshold of only 215w...so tempo is .85 of 215 = 180w. Now this seems very slow but if you have been riding endurance at 150w then the first set of tempo intervals should be at 180w IMO...and if your body's reacts well then you keep progressing. I don't think you should assume your health/fitness will magically return to 100% and you can train hard again...it definitely hasn't in my experience. I don't think you should risk attempting a hard ride without working your way through all the intermediate levels...

So the basics are to ride endurance at what ever level you can reliably handle...then add two harder sessions per week...something like 2x15 at tempo and possible something like 4 x 3-5min threshold on separate days separated by endurance rides. So you do this and if you can handle the intervals and back up with the endurance rides then you keep progressing the intensity...

You do this over weeks and weeks until you are smashing out sets of 300w for 20 minutes ... then do your group rides.

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