Taking turns at the front

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Taking turns at the front

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:38 pm

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by BNA » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:03 pm

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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby InTheWoods » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:03 pm

Even though I watch most of the TDF, I have never raced or anything like that and I'm still clueless on things like how to maintain a paceline.

But I always thought the rider at the front would peel off and drop back, rather than the rider at the back come forward and take over the lead position.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby Marx » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:06 pm

I think you are right, InTheWoods.

The only time it's ever happened the other way around is when Armstrong used to get tired.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby twizzle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:15 pm

Marx wrote:I think you are right, InTheWoods.

The only time it's ever happened the other way around is when Armstrong used to get tired.


... and yet, surprisingly, I see this kind of behaviour in races all the time. It's dumb.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby sogood » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:16 pm

The original artist got the sequence of GIF images reversed. :mrgreen:
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby Daccordi Rider » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:28 pm

Unless it is a team of Cancellara's, then they all stay at the front. :lol:
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby rustychisel » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:48 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:Unless it is a team of Schleck''s, then they all stay at the front. :lol:



fixed that for you :P
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby HLC » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:17 pm

rustychisel wrote:
Daccordi Rider wrote:Unless it is a team of Schleck''s, then they all stay at the front. :lol:



fixed that for you :P


Lies, they always stay in the 2nd position.. until the end.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:34 pm

Bit of "half wheeling" going on too. I wouldn't like to be riding with them.
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Taking turns at the front

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:05 pm

Wouldn't be my definition of half wheeling... Need a double pace line for that... Rider next to you is always half a wheel ahead :P .
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby BoardRider » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:28 pm

I am only new to racing +1 for " InTheWoods " comment until things start to heat up.
I have found all sorts strategies, understandings and deals done between riders on and off the road a big game of chess.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby sogood » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Ok, it's an echelon formation in the making.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby WarrenH » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:11 am

The guy in the back attempted to breakaway ... and instantly the gap closed. Then one by one they all attempted to make a break for it and the attacks were instantly shut down. These cyclists are either on drugs or haven't had enough.

They are certainly getting hammered by across wind ... by the Mistral.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby sogood » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:40 am

WarrenH wrote:The guy in the back attempted to breakaway ... and instantly the gap closed. Then one by one they all attempted to make a break for it and the attacks were instantly shut down. These cyclists are either on drugs or haven't had enough.

Pretty pathetic attacks given the slowing cadence immediately upon reaching the head of the line.
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Taking turns at the front

Postby RonK » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:25 am

InTheWoods wrote:Even though I watch most of the TDF, I have never raced or anything like that and I'm still clueless on things like how to maintain a paceline.

But I always thought the rider at the front would peel off and drop back, rather than the rider at the back come forward and take over the lead position.

The idea is to maintain a constant pace to avoid opening gaps in the line. Once a rider reaches the front he'll be exposed to the wind and will slow naturally, ease to the windward side and drop back allowing the next rider to come through. Any accelerations are done at the back of the paceline to get back on to the forward moving line.
If you have never ridden in a paceline, the important thing to remember is not to accelerate when you reach the front. Do so and break up the line and you'll suffer the ire of the bunch.


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Taking turns at the front

Postby RonK » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:28 am

Bugger! - double post.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby brentono » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:56 pm

It's the same bloke. (ani-reversed-+) :wink:
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby WarrenH » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:03 pm

sogood wrote:Pretty pathetic attacks given the slowing cadence immediately upon reaching the head of the line.


That's because they are riding into a 25+ knot northwesterly. When they break the cover of the echelon the Mistral has them beat. They would be somewhere near the coast between Perpigan and Béziers (with the Mistral prevailing). That little animation isn't as silly as it looks.

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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby jcjordan » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:52 pm

InTheWoods wrote:Even though I watch most of the TDF, I have never raced or anything like that and I'm still clueless on things like how to maintain a paceline.

But I always thought the rider at the front would peel off and drop back, rather than the rider at the back come forward and take over the lead position.


What they are doing in the picture is know as a chain gang and it has a different objective than a pace line.

A pace line is used when a steady pace is desired, and the rider comes off the front on the winward side.

A chain gang is used when you are trying to drive the pace and the riders coming up do so on the side protected from the wind.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby JV911 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:54 am

InTheWoods wrote:rather than the rider at the back come forward and take over the lead position.


we do that in training...it's bloody hard
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Taking turns at the front

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:11 pm

jcjordan wrote:
InTheWoods wrote:Even though I watch most of the TDF, I have never raced or anything like that and I'm still clueless on things like how to maintain a paceline.

But I always thought the rider at the front would peel off and drop back, rather than the rider at the back come forward and take over the lead position.


What they are doing in the picture is know as a chain gang and it has a different objective than a pace line.

A pace line is used when a steady pace is desired, and the rider comes off the front on the winward side.

A chain gang is used when you are trying to drive the pace and the riders coming up do so on the side protected from the wind.

except you wouldn't wait at the back... You would keep coming through on the rider in front of yours wheel... We had one going for 40 kms on Saturday with 20 riders... Seems easy but still puts pressure on the weaker riders ... They start missing turns after a while.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby twizzle » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:18 am

Wikipedia : Chain Gang. Just another term for a pace line.

TYPES OF PACELINES
Single/Double/Rotating/Echelon
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IMO, (in a race) there is no purpose in a rider accelerating from the back of the line to the front, they will just burn out quicker as they have to go anaerobic to get to the front. In training, you could consider it to be a form of motor pacing.
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Taking turns at the front

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:20 pm

The rider shouldn't have to accelerate from the back in a pace line ... Well ok a little to jump back onto the last wheel... The line moving up should hold the steady pace, once at the front they pull over and and back off there by sliding backwards while still protecting the advancing riders from the wind if it is a side wind.
Very easy in theory but very very difficult for some to grasp in practice!.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby twizzle » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:07 pm

toolonglegs wrote:The rider shouldn't have to accelerate from the back in a pace line ... Well ok a little to jump back onto the last wheel... The line moving up should hold the steady pace, once at the front they pull over and and back off there by sliding backwards while still protecting the advancing riders from the wind if it is a side wind.
Very easy in theory but very very difficult for some to grasp in practice!.


Yep - as I said, I've seen this done like in the animation far too many times! Last rider sprinting their ass off to get to the front, then not being able to hold the speed for long.
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Re: Taking turns at the front

Postby Nikolai » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:57 pm

twizzle wrote:TYPES OF PACELINES
Single/Double/Rotating/Echelon
Image
Link.


That's a strange diagram. What they call there "single", "rotating" and "echelon" is one and the same thing with the wind blowing from different directions - head wind for "single" and "rotating" (with simply longer pulls in a "single") and a side wind in "echelon". The "double" formation is one of 2 variants of peeling off when riding two abreast. The 2nd variant, popular where I grew up, is when both riders peel off to one side. This was done to avoid being scooped up by a passing car when the whole lane was taken up (which was 99% of the time).
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