Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby steve-waters » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:36 am

Swiss Stop Yellow pads way to go work in the wet as well - cork not so good in the wet.
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by BNA » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:46 pm

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Re: Carbon wheels and braking

Postby nickobec » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:46 pm

Arlberg wrote:Just wondering what brake pad combinations people are using for their full carbon wheels and braking.

The ones that came with the wheels

Arlberg wrote:... but I am concerned about the braking ability of full carbon wheels generally.

At 1260gm a set they are significantly lighter than Zipp 404s (which are over 1500gm), and around a third of the price. They come supplied with brake pads, just wondering if anyone can share how they brake, and how carbon wheels brake generally.


I have a set of Farsports FSC38s which I use with the supplied brake pads, I have raced in the wet and dry, including a hilly parcours with a 5km descent to finish, as well as general riding. Found braking effective, didn't really push it in the rain, but neither did my fellow racers on alloy rims. No problems stopping me from 60kmh+ on the long descent, a little to effective as I got worried about getting foot out of pedals as my legs were dead and I stopped pretty quickly. In general use in the dry, they have pulled me up quickly when they needed to. I do brake slightly different on carbon rims than alloy rim when riding down 400m (AT) -6% into a blind T junction to a busy road. But that is more practising technique than anything else.

Do suggest you read http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog/2012/6/12/goin-down-slow.html if you ride or likely to ride in big groups down big hills. The rest of the blog is interesting, plenty of information on CF wheels.

Arlberg wrote:Some carbon wheels have a band of aluminium around the rim so normal brake pads can be used. Seems like a good idea and why don't more manufacturers do it if braking directly onto carbon is not effective?

The weight, they weigh more than alloy rims, because they are alloy rims with a carbon fibre aerodynamic fairing. That is why you can find cheap Cosmic Carbones SL/SLR 2nd hand, good on flats, not so good up hill.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:53 pm

I'm still using the original pads supplied. Really no sign of significant wear after 1400km.
They pull my 88kg up just as effectively as non carbon rims and pads.
However, on several occasions when I've got a red light late, and braked hard, I've noted burning rubber. My mates say this is normal for carbon specific pads though.
In the wet, I'd almost say they brake better in the wet than alloy.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DavidTomic » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:54 pm

Hi guys,

I've just been enquiring with Farsports about a set of the FSC50-CM wheels, and one of the questions he's asked me is whether I'd prefer internal or external nipples?

I've had a (quick) search through the thread, and the only comparison I was able to find was:
PawPaw wrote:- I got external nipples. The invoice didn't specify and I can't remember if I did in an email, so will have to check. Internal nipples look better and are apparently more robust, but are more difficult to true (tape has to come off) from what I've been told.



Going purely on the above, I think that I'd prefer the internal nipples, but I'm interested to hear what other people would choose, and why?

EDIT: OH ... and the finish ... 3K or UD (matte or glossy).

I honestly have no idea what the difference is at the moment, so I'm off to do some Googling. Any advice/suggestions/photos much appreciated! ;)
Last edited by DavidTomic on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby gururug » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:08 pm

Aesthetics / Aero -> Internal
Stresses on rim -> ???
Ease of adjustment -> External
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:12 pm

If you are not doing you own truing, internal, looks better, goes faster and less likely in theory to have problems with rim (smaller holes required)

if you are impatient or do not own a kool stop tyre bead jack (because the tyres are #^$%# to fit) go external

If I had the choice I go internal (and I do true my own wheels)

3k or UD are the types of finish. 3k is a fine weave under the surface, UD is unidirectional basically no pattern. Depends what you like, there are supposed to be advantages and disadvantages, stiffness, strength in certain directions. But I just like the look of UD matte carbon.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Big Lance » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:31 pm

Ok im about to order my 50mm CC's from farsports. I'm not big on the knowledge and know how like some of you blokes on here so just looking for some advice.

http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=685

- These are the wheels i am going to order and just wanting to know if i need to change any components? And will i be able to just chuck them straight on my bike with only changing over the brake pads? Thanks for the help, this thread has been very useful.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby gururug » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:39 pm

Just pick whether your need campag or shimano........ when it arrives, you'll need the cassette lockring tool to swap your old cassette on or a new cassette, lockring and possibly spacer and skewers.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Big Lance » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:47 pm

gururug wrote:Just pick whether your need campag or shimano........ when it arrives, you'll need the cassette lockring tool to swap your old cassette on or a new cassette, lockring and possibly spacer and skewers.

Check, and theyll be going straight to the bike shop to go on my new bike! Thanks for that.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DavidTomic » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:51 pm

Big Lance wrote:These are the wheels i am going to order and just wanting to know if i need to change any components?


Not necessarily change, but there's a few things where you've got different options to choose from, and you'll need to tell them what you'd prefer.
  • Hubs: Choice between Bitex [red/white/black] or Hubsmith [black] (Hubsmith is a little lighter (252g vs 315) but also cost slightly more). There isn't really any discernible difference in quality as far as I've been able to find.
  • Nipples: Internal or external, and choice of colour [black/red]
  • Finish: 3K or UD, then matte or glossy.

And will i be able to just chuck them straight on my bike with only changing over the brake pads? Thanks for the help, this thread has been very useful.


Well you'll obviously still need to put tubes & tyres on them after they arrive, as well as getting a cassette put on as well.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Big Lance » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:57 pm

DavidTomic wrote:
Big Lance wrote:
And will i be able to just chuck them straight on my bike with only changing over the brake pads? Thanks for the help, this thread has been very useful.


Well you'll obviously still need to put tubes & tyres on them after they arrive, as well as getting a cassette put on as well.


Would be an interesting ride, haha, thanks for the info much appreciated.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DavidTomic » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:02 pm

FWIW ... I've literally just completed my order for exactly the same set of wheels this afternoon.

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Big Lance » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:15 pm

$66 more than they quoted me, did you mention BNA?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DavidTomic » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:21 pm

Big Lance wrote:$66 more than they quoted me, did you mention BNA?


Difference will be the choice in hubs, as above.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:26 pm

David, I note they've dropped the total weight for your wheelset order, which is the same as mine.

Smart told me yesterday FS are now acutely aware the titanium skewers are cr@p, and they are currently looking for a replacement.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DavidTomic » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:36 pm

PawPaw wrote:
Smart told me yesterday FS are now acutely aware the titanium skewers are cr@p, and they are currently looking for a replacement.


Speaking of, I have been considering buying a better quality set from somewhere.

Price isn't an issue, but I'm obviously looking to keep things fairly light.

Does anybody have any particular recommendations?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:47 pm

Well you'll obviously still need to put tubes & tyres on them after they arrive, as well as getting a cassette put on as well.


That can be the challenge these rims are difficult to fit tyres, expect a few to lots of expletives depending on tyre choice
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Big Lance » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:35 am

nickobec wrote:
Well you'll obviously still need to put tubes & tyres on them after they arrive, as well as getting a cassette put on as well.


That can be the challenge these rims are difficult to fit tyres, expect a few to lots of expletives depending on tyre choice


Why is it difficult?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DavidTomic » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:20 am

Big Lance wrote:
nickobec wrote:
Well you'll obviously still need to put tubes & tyres on them after they arrive, as well as getting a cassette put on as well.


That can be the challenge these rims are difficult to fit tyres, expect a few to lots of expletives depending on tyre choice


Why is it difficult?


Just a very tight fit!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Big Lance » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:45 am

DavidTomic wrote:
Big Lance wrote:That can be the challenge these rims are difficult to fit tyres, expect a few to lots of expletives depending on tyre choice


Why is it difficult?


Just a very tight fit![/quote]
Ill see how it goes, i ordered the same as you David but with a different finish so thanks for all the help everyone, have chucked some skewers from ribble in the basket and will just swap them out straight away.
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Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:32 pm

Reading this thread is not a good idea for the bank balance. Been weighing up getting a solid set of training wheels. Ksyrium Elites... but now thinking the cheap Shimanos will do for a bit longer and a set of Farsports Fsc50-cm to bling up the bike.

Damn it.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:52 pm

nickobec wrote:
Well you'll obviously still need to put tubes & tyres on them after they arrive, as well as getting a cassette put on as well.


That can be the challenge these rims are difficult to fit tyres, expect a few to lots of expletives depending on tyre choice


Nic, I can get Conti GP4000s' on my FS 50mm cc's by hand only. Still need levers to get the tires off though. So mine are not excessively tight.

BTW, in the last week there's been two cases of Hubsmith freehubs breaking reported on the roadbikereview forum. In addition to the issues I had with my front hub, I'd certainly not recommend people buy hubsmith hubs. I'd even recommend people not order wheels from Farsports until they replace what they know are very poor quality skewers, and they offer better quality hubs.

THis is the ideal time for Farsports to realize how important word of mouth via the forums is.....by members not ordering until component quality is addressed.

BTW, I still have no reason not to believe FS rims are reasonable quality.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:50 am

PawPaw wrote:In addition to the issues I had with my front hub, I'd certainly not recommend people buy hubsmith hubs. I'd even recommend people not order wheels from Farsports until they replace what they know are very poor quality skewers, and they offer better quality hubs.

THis is the ideal time for Farsports to realize how important word of mouth via the forums is.....by members not ordering until component quality is addressed.

BTW, I still have no reason not to believe FS rims are reasonable quality.


Bugger, just order a 60mm front wheel with a hubsmith hub and a 50mm rim + spokes to lace to a new powertap from Farsports today.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Big Lance » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:47 am

PawPaw wrote:
Nic, I can get Conti GP4000s' on my FS 50mm cc's by hand only. Still need levers to get the tires off though. So mine are not excessively tight.

BTW, in the last week there's been two cases of Hubsmith freehubs breaking reported on the roadbikereview forum. In addition to the issues I had with my front hub, I'd certainly not recommend people buy hubsmith hubs. I'd even recommend people not order wheels from Farsports until they replace what they know are very poor quality skewers, and they offer better quality hubs.

THis is the ideal time for Farsports to realize how important word of mouth via the forums is.....by members not ordering until component quality is addressed.

BTW, I still have no reason not to believe FS rims are reasonable quality.


http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... HIMHUBR494 - Fix both problems at once? I'm yet to order mine so could i see if they will leave hubs and skewers out and see what saving i can get and order these over?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:28 am

Big Lance wrote:Fix both problems at once? I'm yet to order mine so could i see if they will leave hubs and skewers out and see what saving i can get and order these over?


Yeah you could order rims and spokes only. Though their quote for components not built up put the price of wheelbuilding at $0.
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