Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

[PawPaw]

Email from Smart received this morning, in response to my concerns

"Good morning,thank you for your all mails. I just called you yesterday night but because of the bad internet,I left a message to you.

Thank you again for your attention. We have pay highly attention to the Hubsmith hubs and skewers.

For Hubsmith Hubs.Actually,we have asked Hubsmith company make some improvment after we receiving the first complaint and they have done.
But it seems the quality is not so stable now.During this days,there are some complaint for it. To be honest,the percentage is up to 2%.
Our purchase department have contacted Hubsmith company again and ask them deal with this Hubs immediately.

As the unstable quality for Hubsmith, our purchaser will consider to change it. Now we will use another superlight hub from Bitex.This model is our customized hubs produced by Bitex.
It will arrived during next week. Then I will sent you a set to test for free(if you are urgent,we will sent our sample to test this week). We will change those complaint hubs with this model.
This hubs is 256g/set with ENDURO bearings(4pcs for front,6pcs for rear) and 6paws.Some pictures enclosed to reference(from 7th to 10th are comparing with Hubsmith).

For the titanium skewers, we will change a new one. This model is from Taiwan. Weight is same as before. I will sent you test together the hubs.

For the complaint time, I have get some info that the time is a little long to our dealing with complaint.But hoping they can understand us well. Because we need a complaint procedure.
We need feedback the details to our QC department and tech-workers to deal with it.

At last,please trust us. We are really sorry for this Hubs and skewers problem. But we are try our best to deal with it.

Thanks&Best Regards,

Smart"

[RossB]

The info in this thread, plus plenty of other reading & chatting with fellow riders in my weekend group, has been really helpful in my homework on this (purchase of carbon wheels), so thanks. Thought I'd post my experience to date:
I've been dealing with Smart at Farsports for a few weeks, and my order is virtually identical to that of DavidTomic a few posts above. Placed my order a couple of weeks ago. Emailed Smart this arvo with a couple of points: to get an idea of the progress of my order, and to express my concern re the hubsmith hubs & skewer as mentioned here and elsewhere. The response was that the order is yet to be shipped, and that I can change the order if I wanted to to replace the hubsmith with the new Bitex product ('edhubs') (said to be the same weight as the hubsmith and same price).
So: Smart has been very helpful and prompt to deal with throughout; and I've no concerns about the delay in shipping, in fact it ended up working out well. So far so good. Will post an update when the wheels arrive.
Cheers,
Ross

[Big Lance]

Hi PawPaw,

After having a look at the other forum and seeing some of the problems you brought to our attention i emailed FS with my concerns, they have offered to use different hubs(enduro) and different skewers form taiwan, or i can send my own over and they will build up. At this stage im thinking i will send my own over so i am more comfortable with the quality. Another option is just buying a set of shimano RS80's at about 400g's heavier but similar price.

[PawPaw]

Ross and Lance, I am glad you guys have been able to change your hubs, and skewers. My front Hubsmith hub has stiffened up again, and is quite grindy.
The rear one hasn't been an issue as yet. Though several guys at roadbikereview have certainly had issues.

I've been pretty harsh with Smart in my emails, and FS seem to be taking the forum reports seriously now.
The more everyone brings these matters to FS's attention via Smart, Johnson, Mae, etc, the more they are likely to take seriously forum talk, and stop supplying inferior components.

BTW, I've quizzed Smart about the sense of sending me the newer hubs as I was concerned flange width and bcd might be different and require different length spokes, but he says despite differences in both measures, the same spokes should be fine. I haven't asked him how their warranty is going to cover the new wheelbuild....

edit:
lance, I had looked at the RS80s too (not the 50mm). They've got a good rep just like the Dura Ace C24s. However, I'd contact Shimano Australia, and ask if they have spare spokes and rims for them. When I contacted them a few months ago, they had no spares for the C24s and were not going to import more.
It's a known issue that Shimano only provide spares for wheelsets for around 3-4 years.

[clackers]

David, I note they've dropped the total weight for your wheelset order, which is the same as mine.

PawPaw, can I ask how the 50mm rims go on gusty days or when trucks pass closely?

[PawPaw]

Clack, these are the first deep section wheels I've owned. I certainly notice crosswinds and headwinds with a bit of yaw, especially when gusty.....and have to be a little more relaxed with bar grip. As for trucks, they don't seem to be such an issue.

Nevertheless, the weight savings make acceleration seriously a lot easier, and when there isn't wind, I sense a slight improvement in holding line.

[nickobec]

Johnson replied to my query about hubs and said "we suggest you to use Bitex front hub"

so no hubsmith hubs for me, I queried about the "new" bitex hubs, no response yet

[PawPaw]

Nic, at least a dozen BNA and roadbikereview forumites have been in touch with FS, which is why they are acting quickly on the hubsmith failures.
It's good to see the power of forums forcing a company to do the right thing.

Here's latest emails from Smart.

Hi xxxx,

Good afternoon,thank you for your mail. I am sorry to call you so later yesterday night.
Because when I read the mails,I am really hurry and worry about it, I call you and want to talk with you then. But I forgot the time gaps between us.

This Bitex customized hubs are tested many now. We develop this model with Bitex company from last year.
For the color,the appearance is black color but the freehub is gold color as the pictures.
For the spoke length,I have confimed it again with our tech-workers. The spoke length are same as the Hubsmith.
Even the flange PCD are differenct,but the Flange is also different.

Thanks&Best Regards,

Smart



Hi xxxx,

I am really sorry your hubsmith are unserivce now.

Yes,now we are contacting with Hubsmith company to deal with this problem.
The Hubsmith hubs will not sell until the problem is settled.

I will sent our new Bitex hubs(becasue we have only 1set sample in stock now,mass order will be arrived during next week) and skewers tomorrow.
It will trouble you resemble the hubsmith and rebuild up the new Bitex.

Thank you very much for all your help!

Best Regards,

Smart

[clackers]

Nevertheless, the weight savings make acceleration seriously a lot easier, and when there isn't wind, I sense a slight improvement in holding line.

Thanks for your observations, PP. Of course, you race and they must especially come into their own in crits.

[Ross]

edit:
lance, I had looked at the RS80s too (not the 50mm). They've got a good rep just like the Dura Ace C24s. However, I'd contact Shimano Australia, and ask if they have spare spokes and rims for them. When I contacted them a few months ago, they had no spares for the C24s and were not going to import more.
It's a known issue that Shimano only provide spares for wheelsets for around 3-4 years.

I ordered a spoke for my DA C24 recently through a LBS and at the time of order Shimano had no stock and couldn't say when they were getting any but the spoke arrived two weeks later so they must be importing them.

[PawPaw]

I ordered a spoke for my DA C24 recently through a LBS and at the time of order Shimano had no stock and couldn't say when they were getting any but the spoke arrived two weeks later so they must be importing them.

Maybe they import on demand from Taiwanese parts warehousing.
Though 2 weeks is a good reason to own two wheelsets.

[Magpie]

I've had my 50mm full carbon clinchers with Bitex hubs from FS for about 6 weeks now,so far they are great,except on windy days.They weighed in at 1290 gm out of the box,which is 110gm lighter than DA C24 replaced.

[PawPaw]

I've had my 50mm full carbon clinchers with Bitex hubs from FS for about 6 weeks now,so far they are great,except on windy days.They weighed in at 1290 gm out of the box,which is 110gm lighter than DA C24 replaced.

Keep us updated Magpie....what sort of riding do you do? how much you weigh, spoke count.

I am getting the impression Smart and FS are genuinely trying to do their best to compensate those with shabby hubsmith hubs.
He gave me a tracking number for replacement Bitex lightweight hubs 6pm yesterday.

Will post my wheelbuilder's impressions on arrival and after both front and rear are rebuilt.

[clackers]

I've had my 50mm full carbon clinchers with Bitex hubs from FS for about 6 weeks now,so far they are great,except on windy days.

I've just replaced my front Ness 50mm with a Ritchey 38mm from Cell Bikes for exactly that reason, Magpie.

It's a bit heavier with an alloy rim, but there's now no gust problems at the steering end and I regain the conventional brake pads.

[Crawf]

I am getting the impression Smart and FS are genuinely trying to do their best to compensate those with shabby hubsmith hubs.
He gave me a tracking number for replacement Bitex lightweight hubs 6pm yesterday.

Will post my wheelbuilder's impressions on arrival and after both front and rear are rebuilt.

Who's footing the bill for the rebuild?
What hubs are being sent to you?

[Tarifa]

I've got a Tubular 50mm set from Yishun, purchased nearly a year ago. At the time I've chosen Novatec hubs (carbon as well), Pillar straight pull spokes, 3k matte finish. So far, I'm very happy with the wheels, worth the money, and I would absolutely recommend Yishun!
Cheers

[Porridgewog]

Bit of a specific question. Is there any particuliar diffrence between 50 and 60mm in regards to stiffness when sprinting.

[PawPaw]

Who's footing the bill for the rebuild?
What hubs are being sent to you?

I told Smart my rebuild cost would be about $140 in labor, and he just said sorry. It's not good enough, but will let Smart know I'll be broadcasting wide and far that Farsport don't honor their warranty.

Smart is sending me the sample set of Bitex lightweights, which they already had on hand. They were despatched earlier this week.
Will take pics and let you know how they go.

BTW, I tried to take my rear freehub off to inspect, without success. Got the two axle extenders and DS circlip off, then I tried to pull the freehub off, but it wouldn't budge. If you have any ideas, I am all ears. Pic shows where circlip sits.

[steve-waters]

The difference in stiffness will have more to do with build than an extra 10mm depth - but in theory 60 could be stiffer.

You would also need to consider hubs, spokes (lacing pattern, type and tension) and also the stiffness of the actual rim.

[beij]

Hi, first time post on this forum. It was suggested that I post pictures of the FM066 frame from HongFu. Frame weight on my digital scale was 860 grms for 52cm. I've had a few rides and the feel is very smooth, not as stiff as my FM028 but that doesn't worry me on the road. I had a local gun rider take it out and his feedback was very positive aswell. Total build with Sram FOrce/Red and Stan's Alpha was just on 7kg. Frame looks superb, great finish and no problems with the build or the internal cabling.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 4321-1.jpg
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 091918.jpg

[jaseyjase]

Hi, first time post on this forum. It was suggested that I post pictures of the FM066 frame from HongFu. Frame weight on my digital scale was 860 grms for 52cm. I've had a few rides and the feel is very smooth, not as stiff as my FM028 but that doesn't worry me on the road. I had a local gun rider take it out and his feedback was very positive aswell. Total build with Sram FOrce/Red and Stan's Alpha was just on 7kg. Frame looks superb, great finish and no problems with the build or the internal cabling.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 4321-1.jpg
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 091918.jpg

always good to see guinea pigs ! please let us know how it holds up over time, and any issues you see. keen on a set as well

[Mulger bill]

Hi, first time post on this forum. It was suggested that I post pictures of the FM066 frame from HongFu. Frame weight on my digital scale was 860 grms for 52cm. I've had a few rides and the feel is very smooth, not as stiff as my FM028 but that doesn't worry me on the road. I had a local gun rider take it out and his feedback was very positive aswell. Total build with Sram FOrce/Red and Stan's Alpha was just on 7kg. Frame looks superb, great finish and no problems with the build or the internal cabling.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 4321-1.jpg
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 091918.jpg

G'Day beij.

I'd like to say "Damn, that's gorgeous!" but four very ugly things that I admit freely to having a phobia about jumped out and smacked me in the eye.

Please, get some black cable ties to mount the sensor to the seat stay and ditch the magnet hanging off the LH crankarm entirely. Go to your local Jaycar or whatever and buy a small rare earth magnet, this will slip discreetly and firmly onto the inside end of the pedal spindle, move the sensor up a tad to maintain alignment and your stealth profile has just jumped by 30%.

Shaun

[ozdavo]

buy a small rare earth magnet, this will slip discreetly and firmly onto the inside end of the pedal spindle

unless you have Ti spindle (which I recently found out) in which case the magnets will not stick... But you can always use superglue

[DavidTomic]

Still waiting to hear when my wheels get shipped. Today is 15 days since payment, which is how long I had originally been told it would take.

[clackers]

Please, get some black cable ties to mount the sensor to the seat stay and ditch the magnet hanging off the LH crankarm entirely. Go to your local Jaycar or whatever and buy a small rare earth magnet, this will slip discreetly and firmly onto the inside end of the pedal spindle, move the sensor up a tad to maintain alignment and your stealth profile has just jumped by 30%.

Ooh, nice tip, Shaun!