Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:17 pm

From my experience and I have bought two sets from FarSports, if they say the weight is 1480g the wheels will be in the 1450g to 1490g range.

I expect that FarSports have upgraded the rims they use, compared to what the previously used for those wheels that other people bought. Because spokes alone can not account for that weight different.

As for which wheelset, I swear by my FarSports wheels and have heard only good things about Yishun wheels and I have bought other parts from Yishun.

Are you:
1 Intending to race?
2 Doing a lot of climbing?
3 A weight weenie?
4 Getting them because the look good?

If you answered Yes to any of the first 3 questions, get the FarSports. Otherwise get the Yishun, they will do the same job, just a little cheaper and a little heavier. Plus I don't think 50mm carbon clinchers are for everyone, you may hate them.
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by BNA » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:11 pm

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DANger-is » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:11 pm

nickobec wrote:Are you:
1 Intending to race?
2 Doing a lot of climbing?
3 A weight weenie?
4 Getting them because the look good?

If you answered Yes to any of the first 3 questions, get the FarSports. Otherwise get the Yishun, they will do the same job, just a little cheaper and a little heavier. Plus I don't think 50mm carbon clinchers are for everyone, you may hate them.


Thanks for your opinion, I'm an amateur rider doing around 150-200km per week. I ride hills weekly with elevation gains of around 400m max per hill and with no heavy braking, about 1000-1500m of climbing each week. I am currently using mavic aksium wheels and I'm just looking for wheels which will give me more speed (and to look good of course).

Is it worth spending extra $$$ to save 150g
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby boss » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:40 pm

$1-2 per gram of weight savings isn't bad... people pay a lot more.

If I were you, spend the extra cash and save the weight. If you're climbing a bit, and plan to spend more time climbing, then it's a no brainer.

However saying that, I ride similar terrain to you (a fair bit more elevation than you) and I wouldn't bother with carbon clinchers. Plenty of good, light (but low profile) wheel options. If you're after cheap and blingy looking wheels then carbon clinchers will make you happy I suppose.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby biker jk » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:33 pm

DANger-is wrote:
nickobec wrote:Are you:
1 Intending to race?
2 Doing a lot of climbing?
3 A weight weenie?
4 Getting them because the look good?

If you answered Yes to any of the first 3 questions, get the FarSports. Otherwise get the Yishun, they will do the same job, just a little cheaper and a little heavier. Plus I don't think 50mm carbon clinchers are for everyone, you may hate them.


Thanks for your opinion, I'm an amateur rider doing around 150-200km per week. I ride hills weekly with elevation gains of around 400m max per hill and with no heavy braking, about 1000-1500m of climbing each week. I am currently using mavic aksium wheels and I'm just looking for wheels which will give me more speed (and to look good of course).

Is it worth spending extra $$$ to save 150g


For the money you intend to spend I could build a 1250g-1300g wheelset using 380g rims which would be great for climbing and descending (alloy rims).
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:24 pm

@DANger-is I would look at the 38mm from FarSports 1260g so 200g lighter than their 50mm, even more suited to climbing.

I run a powertap on my 50mm, so it is my go to rear wheel, used from road, crit, TT, climbing and some training.

I run a 60mm front for TT and road races I expect to be off the front, as it is a little bit easier to hold 35+kph than the 38mm.

But for most road races, crits, climbing and training I run a 38mm front, it is easier to manage.

I would probably run my 38mm rear for most of those too, except I am a power addict.

38mm hold higher speeds better than low profile alloys and don't look that bad.

Image

ps ignore front brake pad
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby boss » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:27 pm

Personally I think 38mm look neater than 50mm... just me though!

Question which sorta follows on from my previous question RE: 29er wheelsets.

I just pulled the trigger on a CX bike (haven't taken delivery yet) and would like to upgrade the wheelset. Currently it's got some boat anchor type wheelset with disc hubs.

I was looking through the Farsports 29er catalog and they've got some disc suitable wheels 29er wheels that might fit depending on the hub spacing of the frame. So that's a question mark at this point.

How suitable would a set of 23mm x 23mm carbon clinchers be for riding to work on, do some CX (maybe race) and a bit of roadie training on. Basically this bike is going to be my all weather, do it all bike and I will take it on some less technical singletracks for good measure.

I've never considered buying carbon clinchers before because I wasn't prepared to deal with the braking issues or whatever. However, I see some appeal in loosing a substantial amount of weight off my wheels and not having to forgo any braking power (since the discs are in charge of that).

One last question - can you stick a 35c tyre on a 23mm wide rim?

Ahhhhh so many questions and unknowns, I am a noob all over again...
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby optiumcarbon » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:47 pm

A friend of mine bought a set of the 38mm tubuar rims from china and they were really good to start with the now the braking surface is not smooth and the carbon weave is going all out of shape at the braking surface. but i guess there are some different quallity rims you can get from China, i think he got the cheapest he could find
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby DANger-is » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:54 pm

Thanks for the tip on the 38mm rims, I might look into them.

Does anyone use carbon rims with the Aluminium brake track these days? It seems like the obvious answer to dealing with the brake issues associated with carbon wheels.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:35 pm

boss wrote:One last question - can you stick a 35c tyre on a 23mm wide rim?


According to the European Tire and Rim Technical Organization Standards Manual - 2007 which you can find the excerpt halfway down http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_dimensions 37mm is the skinniest tyre you should fit to 23c rims, but that I understand this overly cautious and very much 2007 thinking.

Sheldon Brown wrote:Note: This chart may err a bit on the side of caution. Many cyclists exceed the recommended widths with no problem.


ps watch a euro CX race and just see how many race on deep carbon rims
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:21 pm

boss wrote:One last question - can you stick a 35c tyre on a 23mm wide rim?


I wouldn't, it would certainly be possible but I would expect the result to be a very bulbous shape to the inflated tyre which could make handling sketchy. That's going off my experience of using wide 28mm tyres on a narrow (17 or 19mm?) rim.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby bosvit » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:06 pm

Nick I think he is referring to external diameter, while I am assuming you are referring to internal....?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby boss » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:40 pm

bosvit wrote:Nick I think he is referring to external diameter, while I am assuming you are referring to internal....?


I'm talking about whatever measurement that Farsports quote :) haha
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby black4tress » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:12 am

black4tress wrote:So I did the toe-in as a few of you guys suggested, went for a quick 35km ride around my local area and it has made no difference at all.
I got back home and replaced the front pads with the provided blue pads, re-aligned them and went for a couple of kms around the block.....no noticeable difference either with the same type of shuttering (braking although still quite good seemed worst then with the yellows). I did also notice a lot of squealing going on with the blue pads.

I'll hit Smart up and see how good their aftersales service is. I have 3 other good riding mates who are in the same situation as myself. They are using Zipp tubs and an alu wheel (kysriums) as their second/trainer set but are after another carbon wheel. I'm basically their guinee pig :cry:



Update:
I've sent the front wheels back to Farsports via EMS (~$65). I will provide further updates once they have assessed it.
The rears are not 100% perfect but not that bad so I have accepted it as is.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:13 pm

bosvit wrote:Nick I think he is referring to external diameter, while I am assuming you are referring to internal....?

Yes I am referring to the international standard way of measuring rims, not the farsports way

quick search of the internet mainly one RBR post, with diagrams and a few measurements by various owners
Farsports external - Internal width
20mm 13mm
23mm 16mm
25mm 18mm

700 by 35 on FarSports 20mm definite no
700 by 35 on FarSports 23mm borderline according to international standards
700 by 35 on FarSports 25mm is within international standards

Personally I if it was just 700x35 I was riding I would be looking at 25mm rims (better tyre shape), If I was going to use tyres between 23 to 35 I would get 23mm rims. Assuming no weight or aero difference between rims.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby winstonw » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:34 pm

Did a lumpy ride on my 50mm alloy brake rim Farsports wheels today....they are around 6 weeks old, and the brakes are essentially useless, and have been for around 3 weeks now.....while my mates barreled down the descents, I had to gingerly brake all the way. Ridiculous. Am taking the wheels to my wheel builder first thing Monday. Two weeks ago, the freehub came loose, and it now seems the rear bearings are stuffed as well. Never ever will I buy Farsports wheels again.

I've just hit the button on a set of Ultegra wheels on Ribble...1650grams $295
they have an outstanding reputation for longevity. I've not known a set of Farsports wheels to last more than 10,000km. let me know if you've exceeded that.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby ozdavo » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:57 pm

winstonw wrote:Did a lumpy ride on my 50mm alloy brake rim Farsports wheels today....they are around 6 weeks old, and the brakes are essentially useless, and have been for around 3 weeks now.....while my mates barreled down the descents, I had to gingerly brake all the way. Ridiculous. Am taking the wheels to my wheel builder first thing Monday. Two weeks ago, the freehub came loose, and it now seems the rear bearings are stuffed as well. Never ever will I buy Farsports wheels again.

Winston can you elaborate: you say the brakes being essentially useless what do you mean?
About the freehub coming loose, that's a hassle, but can happen to any hub; and bearings being stuffed after six weeks sounds like you got a dodgy set???
Anyway, other than your braking issue, your problems are hub related, a part Farsport buys in complete, and gives you options on. Which hubs do your wheels have?

In saying this, you have obviously had a poor experience and I understand you wanting to stay away from them in the future, I'm just trying to get an idea of what problems you are having.

BTW I have no bias one way or another - don't own a set, with no immediate plans to buy ANY new wheels.


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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby winstonw » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:54 pm

yeah hi Oz....went off a bit there....was a tough ride in cooler weather, after a club crit race.
didn't have time to change to alloy wheelset.
it's not just the bearings, though symptoms were when climbing out of the saddle, felt like I was grinding through mush...much more resistance than is normal. ok, that's the climbing thing.
the descending thing is the wheels are not that out of true, but both front and rear wheels when brakes are applied shudder beyond what would be expected for their relative trueness.....haven't put the rims through a set of calipers yet, but suspect the aluminium brake surfaces are no longer equidistant through 360 degrees.

these aluminium brake surface 50mm carbons were replacement for a set of full carbon wheels that blew out bilaterally at the brake surface.

As of tonight, I am of the view that unless you race A or B grade, the aerodynamic advantage of deep section wheels is not worth the expense or risk of rim "issues". BTW, a mate with Zipp 404s had his fail 2 weeks ago, and another mate with ENVEs nurses his so much he only races with them. If you can afford a set of fragile carbon deep sections to race only, and rarely apply the brakes, or get out of the saddle for sprints, my view does not apply.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:47 pm

Just stick to tubular, after all they are race wheels anyway.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby simonn » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:49 pm

Well, I wasted a semi-unexpected bonus...

Image

Hongfu FM066SL (delivered in a week!) with Campagnolo Veloce compact groupo, deda zero100 bars and stem and Pro-lite Bracciano wheels. Weighs in as pictured at ~7.4kgs according to a cheap Chinese digital fishing scale held up by me, so not weight weenie but certainly fit for purpose at slightly under $2K (seriously, the quite a lot extra money required for a few 100 grams less is better spent on other things - call me when I am racing A grade, I won't be waiting by the phone).

Haven't ridden it yet as I have been sick and weather :(.

EDIT: Yes, I need to sort the spacers out, bars are a little to high.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:37 pm

Looks like you got great value for money Simon. Nice choice on the wheels!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby adamr » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:52 pm

simonn wrote:Image

Looks a lot like mine, except for my red tape. Good stuff.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby winstonw » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:24 pm

simonn wrote:Well, I wasted a semi-unexpected bonus...

Haven't ridden it yet as I have been sick and weather :(.

EDIT: Yes, I need to sort the spacers out, bars are a little to high.


pretty aggressive geometry. how does it compare to your other bikes?
let us know how your back goes after a month with the bars lower.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mattwilkinson » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:40 pm

Can anyone comment on the durability of the carbon braking surfaces, is it worthwhile getting the alloy surfaces?

Durabiliy and strength?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby winstonw » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:59 pm

I've had both Farsport carbon and alloy brakes surfaces, and I'd advise you not to touch either. Their QC is unreliable.
I got about 4000k out of the carbon, and 1000k out of the alloy before they failed.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby rheicel » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:02 pm

winstonw wrote:I've had both Farsport carbon and alloy brakes surfaces, and I'd advise you not to touch either. Their QC is unreliable.
I got about 4000k out of the carbon, and 1000k out of the alloy before they failed.

Can you please elaborate how did they fail?
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