Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby goudgey » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:44 pm

Hi all,
Anyone know where I can source an ISP mast topper to suit an FM015-Isp frame?
Internal diameter needs to be 37.1 mm and I'm after one that's longer than the standard 50mm height.
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by BNA » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:08 pm

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mitchy_ » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:08 pm

BenevolantDictatorD wrote:I followed this thread around a year ago and then went ahead and built up a !!! Spammer !!! on a Hongfu frame, saddle and other carbon bits from various parts of China, and Wheelsfar wheels with SRAM Red running gear. It came out at around 5.5kgs bare for around $4k. Mind you- I bought when the dollar was US$1.05 so it was the right time to buy so it would be at least $5k now. As a novice at bike mechanics I made every mistake you could think, so I had quite a few "learning experiences" along the way but - I can now fix and maintain as necessary. Apart from the tubbies there is nothing special on the bike - nothing exotic - yet.

I have put my wheelsfar 25mm tubbies through quite a lot over the time since the build - including a long fast downhill bumpy dirt section that made me think of becoming religious! - and they haven't blinked. I bought a set of 50s for the "old" bike and am equally happy with them. All up I would have done around 15k kms and can't be happier. I broke one spoke - non-drive side rear - and replaced it with no problems - I'm just assuming it was a dodgy sapim spoke. I can't tell the difference in the braking between these rims and my old Ksyriums.

And for those that can't grasp the tubbie concept - ask a mountain biker how they deal with punctures and apply that to your road bike - easy. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Sounds like a slick build! Any pics?

When you say 5.5kg bare, do you mean without wheels?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mitchy_ » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:12 am

i'm sure it's been covered before, but i didn't search through all 30+ pages of this thread... what's the verdict on the chinese hubs being offered, novatec and rotaz seem to be my current options.

i'm looking to have some ~50mm carbon clinchers laced up to disc hubs for a disc CX (looking at the Novatec D711/D712) who has nice wide 50mm clinchers? hoping for 17+ mm internal width.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:42 am

The vast majority of things I've read about Novatec have been positive, I have a set of Novatec track hubs and they are extremely good quality.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mitchy_ » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:53 am

ldrcycles wrote:The vast majority of things I've read about Novatec have been positive, I have a set of Novatec track hubs and they are extremely good quality.


ditto. the rotaz are marginally lighter, however i've not heard of them before so i'd be inclined to go with the novatecs. would love to go the hope hubs, but their price and weight over the novatecs doesn't make me think they are worth it, despite having owned a set before. the chainsaw-esque rear hub was good for warning pedestrians though.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Crawf » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:16 am

Like any hubs the bearing go first, so having a design with easy to replace bearings should be a big priority.
Of the Chinese/Taiwanese hubs the Novatec's probably have the best reputation, however they are always heavier than their rivals.
I'm riding Rotaz hubs now and they seem ok, but I'll form a better judgment in another 10,000km.
Cirus Monkeys hubs are nice and light but the rear bearings went after about 13,000km, the bearings were are pain in the a55 to get out and the pawls wore out - I gave up. Wouldn't recommend for long term use. They're also pretty expensive now too.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mitchy_ » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:31 am

a quick read suggests that novatec use pretty standard bearings, whereas rotaz use a propriety bearing? (shared with American Classic?) novatecs are only 27 grams more than the rotaz on offer so i'll take the novatecs.

25mm wide, 50mm deep carbon clinchers on novatec disc hubs should be 200 grams lighter than my current wheelset too.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby goudgey » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:30 pm

Hi again, no luck with a response to my request for help in finding a longer ISP mast topper to suit an FM015 frame so what about this as a solution?

I need an extra 15mm height and I've got the off-cut section of the ISP.
Is it a good idea to cut a 15mm section, sit it on top of the ISP and fit the seat mast topper over that?
The seat mast topper will be bearing down on the cut section which in turn will bear on the ISP and the Topper will extend to 35mm from the top of the ISP.
Perhaps it's not ideal but I can't really see why this wouldn't work.

Thoughts/advice/exclamations regarding my bush-engineering prowess?

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Crawf » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:40 pm

I assume an FM015 would have the same ISP measurements as an FM028/029, in which case a Tune Cappy will slide over the top, but you will need to slice up tin can& insert a few hidden shims to expand it out slightly, have done this and it works fine... along with quite a few other people.
Last edited by Crawf on Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mitchy_ » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:41 pm

goudgey wrote:Hi again, no luck with a response to my request for help in finding a longer ISP mast topper to suit an FM015 frame so what about this as a solution?

I need an extra 15mm height and I've got the off-cut section of the ISP.
Is it a good idea to cut a 15mm section, sit it on top of the ISP and fit the seat mast topper over that?
The seat mast topper will be bearing down on the cut section which in turn will bear on the ISP and the Topper will extend to 35mm from the top of the ISP.
Perhaps it's not ideal but I can't really see why this wouldn't work.

Thoughts/advice/exclamations regarding my bush-engineering prowess?

Thanks,
Mark


have you tried contacting Hongfu? without seeing what you mean i cant comment.. although that said, if they make the clamp 35mm long, chances are it needs most of that....
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby goudgey » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:05 pm

I've tried contacting Hong Sloppy Kiss and Deng Sloppy Kiss. They only have 1 topper available that inserts 50mm over the ISP. My intended solution results in 35mm of the ISP inserted within the topper.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby goudgey » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:25 pm

Hong Sloppy Kiss & Deng Sloppy Kiss....not sloppy kiss!
Strange auto correct?!?!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clackers » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:52 pm

goudgey wrote:Hong Sloppy Kiss & Deng Sloppy Kiss....not sloppy kiss!
Strange auto correct?!?!


This site seems to put that instead of 'f' 'u', which is treated as swearing.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Pravda » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:56 pm

Hey guys,
I've had a good read through this thread and I'm looking at pulling the trigger on a set of farsports 60mm clincher rims to get build up locally on a set of hope hubs. Any recommendations on which rims to choose, I notice there's a few types.
For reference I'm picking up 20h and 28h Hope mono hubs and I'm looking at corresponding 60mm rims with internal holes.
Thoughts?

Edit: for clarity: FSL60-CM rims http://www.farsports.cn/product/detail.php/id-35.html
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:07 pm

Pravda wrote:I've had a good read through this thread and I'm looking at pulling the trigger on a set of farsports 60mm clincher rims to get build up locally on a set of hope hubs. Any recommendations on which rims to choose, I notice there's a few types.


Ben after riding a farsports 50mm clincher for 8,000km on my rear and now unusable and with a Farsports 60mm and Farsports 38mm on the front with about 4,000km on each and both exhibiting shudder under braking, I decided to replace with some Tawainese Gigantex 55mm rims a little heavier and little more expensive, but from all accounts a lot more durable.

28 h rear wheel, you might have trouble finding rims drilled for 28 holes. 24 holes is far more common, if you check out November Bikes their Rail rims was tempting,they only sells 24 hole rims and refuses to sell higher count, "if 24 spokes is good enough for Mark Cavendish it is good enough for my customers" is their philosophy.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Pravda » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:25 pm

I've sourced a 28h hope hub so that shouldn't be a problem, the 20h front is actually proving more difficult. Any idea what a set of Gigantex go for? Farsports have quoted me $399 delivered.
Edit: nvm checked the link, double the price is starting to make it more worth my while to buy a set of Campy or mavic wheels.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:30 pm

nickobec wrote:...28 h rear wheel, you might have trouble finding rims drilled for 28 holes. 24 holes is far more common, if you check out November Bikes their Rail rims was tempting,they only sells 24 hole rims and refuses to sell higher count, "if 24 spokes is good enough for Mark Cavendish it is good enough for my customers" is their philosophy.
Strange logic considering that Cavendish only weighs 70Kg. Plenty of guys weight 110Kg+ that might like something that isn't a touring wheel to race on.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mitchy_ » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:33 pm

after hearing a few storys about farsports i'm leaning towards Light Bicycle clinchers. they do from 24 up to 36 hole.

i'm looking at a set of 28h 50mm U-shaped clinchers on Novatec D711/D712 disc hubs with cx-ray spokes for my disc CX. comes in around 1600 grams and ~$600.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:18 pm

Ben you mileage may vary, but I am not happy with the mileage I got out of my rims, I was racing twice a week on them as well as training twice a week and they lasted little over a 15 months. The two fronts are still usable, but that was because they shared duties.

If you are making an informed decision, that you will probably only get 5,000km out of the rims, then at $400 they are a cheap introduction to the world of carbon wheels.

The usual drillings for carbon rims are 24 rear, 20 front. Some providers, like Farsports and Light Bicycle will custom drill then to suit your needs 28, 32, 36 etc. Using a 28 hole hub, may just restrict future rim choice.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Duck! » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:00 pm

mitchy_ wrote:i'm sure it's been covered before, but i didn't search through all 30+ pages of this thread... what's the verdict on the chinese hubs being offered, novatec and rotaz seem to be my current options.

Novatech (who incidentally are Taiwanese) are kind of the Giant or Merida of the hub world.... They make a lot of stuff under other customers' names as well as their own, and they're thoroughly decent hubs. The only issue I've really had is on the rare occasions you find yourself swapping from Shimano to Campag-pattern freewheel bodies, the dirt seal behind the cassette body can be a right pig to seat properly, and causes a lot of drag. It's fine in normal use, only rears its head if you swap bodies.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby mitchy_ » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:11 pm

Duck! wrote:
mitchy_ wrote:i'm sure it's been covered before, but i didn't search through all 30+ pages of this thread... what's the verdict on the chinese hubs being offered, novatec and rotaz seem to be my current options.

Novatech (who incidentally are Taiwanese) are kind of the Giant or Merida of the hub world.... They make a lot of stuff under other customers' names as well as their own, and they're thoroughly decent hubs. The only issue I've really had is on the rare occasions you find yourself swapping from Shimano to Campag-pattern freewheel bodies, the dirt seal behind the cassette body can be a right pig to seat properly, and causes a lot of drag. It's fine in normal use, only rears its head if you swap bodies.


great! not going to swap between shimano/sram and campag, so all good.

ordered the wheels yesterday, chinese new year means i dont get them for a good few weeks though. :( guess i'm punching out the kay's on the single speed for a bit longer.
black D711/D712 hubs, black nipples and bladed spokes and light-bicycles new 45mm U shaped 24.5mm wide clinchers in glossy 3k with no brake tracks. should look sexy!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby black4tress » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:14 pm

Just FYI,
I've owned a set of Farsports 40mm (or is it 50mm forgot now) Carbon Clichers for over 8month now. Both front and back have shuddering problems from day one and even the replacement rear rim they sent has the same problem.....after about 3000kms it has slightly improved but is still noticeable. Also recently had the LBS true the rear wheel and he says the hubs are on its way out (Ceramic bearings if it makes any difference). Fronts hubs are still smooth...no issues there.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby NeillS » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:48 pm

Have read most of the thread and haven't found much specific to my situation;

Chasing a set of super lightweight racing tubulars for climbing races only. Happy with 20-38mm depth, wanting something sub-1200gm if possible. Can get a set of TWE customs for $1699 but the cheapskate in me says that if a chinese wheel will do the job for 10 races a year and be 1/3 the price, then it's worth looking into. I weigh only 62kg and all the races I'm targeting involve big hills. Anyone got any recommendations? I kind of like the look of these bad boys; http://www.farsports.cn/product/detail.php/id-20.html at 980 grams but keep hearing persistent issues about shuddering and speed wobbles.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby MN GLXR » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:25 pm

Think you have answered your own question!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:37 pm

Anyone using yishun wheels? Shuddering brake track?
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