Upgrading wheels...

For Roadies

Upgrading wheels...

Postby Dr.Nate » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:19 am

I have just purchased a colnago CLX 3.0 with Di2, the reviews suggest the wheels are not equivalent to the level of frame and an upgrade will change the feel of the bike altogether.

The bike comes with Shimano RS30 wheels.

For a recreational rider and for group rides will an upgrade make much of a difference?

I'm considering the following upgraded wheel sets

1. Shimano RS 80
2. Mavic kysrium elite
3. Zipp 404 firecrest clinchers

I haven't taken delivery of the bike yet but the LBS suggested that if I upgrade the wheels he will do a swap and I only pay the difference. So I don't wan to make the mistake of buying with the current wheels and upgrade 2 weeks later!

Any thoughts ?

Thanks

Dr. Nate
Dr.Nate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:31 pm

by BNA » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:43 am

BNA
 

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby Comedian » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:43 am

Durace c24!!! :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby open roader » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:17 pm

Dr.Nate wrote:I haven't taken delivery of the bike yet but.........


Tough ask here.

You have not even test ridden the bike to acertain how the hoops ride and perform on the CLX 3.0 frame and on the other hand if you act now you will save yourself the trouble of offloading an 'as new' pair of Shimano RS30 hoops if you actually do decide to change your mind after sucking and seeing..........

I've ridden on the Ksyrium Elites, they are uber reliable on lumpy roads but a tad heavy for my liking and also a tad bland if you are wanting to tart up your Colnago says my 20 cent opinion........

I tested a freind's set of 2010 404 dimpled clinchers which were def. aero when you put the effort in to hold speed well above 30km/hr, looked the goods and were well made but very expensive.

If you care about the bike's cosmetic appearance (and I admit I am one who shamlessly does) then the Zipps will match that gorgeous sloping frame of the CLX 3.0 IMHO.

If you are moving at above 30km/hr + a lot then the aero benefits of the 404's will kick in but if you are mostly rolling about in the sub 30km/hr area then I say the aero benefit of deep dish wheels like the 404's is wasted.

I can't comment on the Shimano RS 80's as I have no idea what they are....... :D
3rd class cycling is always better than 1st class walking
User avatar
open roader
 
Posts: 2265
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:05 pm
Location: Dueling Banjo Country

Upgrading wheels...

Postby RonK » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:21 pm

Tsk, tsk - fancy mixing rice with pizza in the first place.


Posted via Tapatalk
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 4914
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby open roader » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:45 pm

RonK wrote:Tsk, tsk - fancy mixing rice with pizza in the first place.


Posted via Tapatalk


Well I wasn't going to mention that........ but it is actually a rice frame after all......... 8)
3rd class cycling is always better than 1st class walking
User avatar
open roader
 
Posts: 2265
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:05 pm
Location: Dueling Banjo Country

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby hooman » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:52 am

In all honesty, the difference is almost negligible for a recreational rider. BUT the look of the Zipps is hard to get past. If you can afford them, go for it.

I changed the standard wheels on my Cervelo RS and now ride on Ksyrium Elites and noticed the difference immediately but then I rode on a friend's Zipp 404 Firecrest and couldn't substantiate the difference (except when the wind almost blew me over).

Either way you will enjoy the riding.

Hooman
'09 Giant TCR C2 Shimano 105
'10 Cervelo RS Shimano Ultegra
'11 Time NXR Instinct SRAM RED Black
'12 Pinarello Dogma 2 Shimano DuraAce DI2
hooman
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:03 pm

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby redcorpsjames » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:55 am

Get the rs80 low profiles. You wont need the zipp 404s for wat u do. Unless your going to race further down the line. and with a nice bike like that I would be considering racing it. . .
Merida Scultura 905 2013
cell messenger fixie 2013
User avatar
redcorpsjames
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: sydney

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby kunama » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:59 pm

I have now done about 1200klm on the RS80 and am very happy with them for recreational riding. Where I ride the wind is always blowing so deep aero rims are not ideal.
The RS80 is an alloy rim with carbonfibre overlay and Ultegra hubs.
They look like this:
Image
kunama
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:57 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby Dr.Nate » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:16 pm

Im fully aware it's a Taiwan produced frame.. But for the riding I do which like I said is recreational and fitness group rides it's already overkill. But in saying that I do appreciate aesthetics and gadgets and that's why I went for an Italian designed Di2 ... And I figure if I'm going all this way may as well complete the bike with good looking and functioning wheelset !

Are the zipp 404 long lasting on good as well as average roads? What should I try and negotiate the difference between RS 30 and Zipp 404s?
Dr.Nate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby Baldy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:19 pm

Yeah I have the RS80's as well. They have done about 5000km on two bikes. They are on my "good" bike now. They have been good wheels with no problems at all.

Having said that I would swap them for a set of 404's every day of the week and twice on Sundays 8)
Baldy
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby Dr.Nate » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:22 pm

Where I ride can also sometimes get windy so maybe the zipp 404 aren't suitable... Mmm

This just gets more confusing ! Those RS 80's do look neat on your giant maybe those are the go....
Dr.Nate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:31 pm

Upgrading wheels...

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:39 pm

Depends what you weigh... 50mm rims are a must for me in any wind... They don't budge apart from when I put them on the tt bike for training and I am in full tuck and a truck blasts past in the opposite direction :-) .
I train on kysriums and race on deep dish... I notice the difference instantly.
As often said... Aero trumps weight nearly everywhere.
But would I ride everyday on $2000 dollar wheels?.... No.
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14032
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby Dr.Nate » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:03 pm

I'm 70kgs....

I have to agree, I would love the zipps but its definitely overkill for the type of riding I do.....

So I think its between the Shimano RS 80 and the Mavic Kysrium Elite's..... Is there much between these two wheels ?
Dr.Nate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby open roader » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:15 pm

Dr.Nate wrote:Where I ride can also sometimes get windy so maybe the zipp 404 aren't suitable... Mmm


I rode for 18 months on a pair of 50mm carbon wheels. I also live in an area where 7/10 days have a wind over 30km/hr and often faster. It was only ever when the wind gusts rose over 45km/hr and upwards that I felt the taller rims were really dragging in a cross wind and at those speeds with a gusting wind just about every rider is going to feel like they are being buffeted irrespective of which wheelset they are on.

Unless you really ride a lot of your miles in faster winds like the ones described above I'd not rule out any deep dish wheels like the Zipp 404's because of any cross wind drag effect IMHO I rode on $1600 50mm carbon rims as my regular trainer wheelset and never lived to regret it but that was my perogative at the time.
3rd class cycling is always better than 1st class walking
User avatar
open roader
 
Posts: 2265
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:05 pm
Location: Dueling Banjo Country

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby PawPaw » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:50 pm

Are you aware there's two kinds of RS80s - 24 and 50mm?

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Shimano-RS80-24mm-Carbon-Laminate-Clincher-Wheels-Pair/SHIMWHFR385?source=UQC
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Shimano-RS80-50mm-Carbon-Clincher-Wheels-Pair/SHIMWHFR390?source=UQC

AUD415 vs 745.
1521 vs 1783 grams

A lot of bling in the 50mm.
the rs80 are lighter than the ksyrium elites by 1.9%, or 29grams :)
I know dura-ace and ultegra hubs are highly regarded. I don't insight on the ksyriums.

da c24 1,386 9/04/12 $791
fulcrum 0 1,430 1/04/12 $780
bracciano 1,482 9/04/12 $419
ksyrium sl 1,485 9/04/12 $820
fulcrum 1 1,485 9/04/12 $698
rs80 24mm 1,521 9/04/12 $415
kysrium elite 1,550 9/04/12 $549
fulcrum 3 1,555 9/04/12 $520
ultegra 1,652 9/04/12 $404
fulcrum 5 1,760 9/04/12 $215
rs80 50mm 1,783 9/04/12 $745
fulcrum 7 1,849 9/04/12 $164

Below is some excel fun - comparison of price and weight.
Wheelsets are ordered from lightest to heaviest.
What you are looking for in the $/gram plot is a wheelset that is below the black trendline.
Wheelsets for a comparison like this should have their quality validated by many users. The analysis reveals nothing of quality, only where a wheelset is relative to the price trendline.
Keep in mind the rs80 50mm are alloy/carbon deep dish. all the others are not.

Image
Last edited by PawPaw on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
PawPaw
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby PawPaw » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:08 pm

further, if you are prepared to cough up for 404s, consider this:

- wheels don't last forever. a guy on our group ride this morning had the rim of his carbon wheel shatter and cause a loud tube flat. scared the bejesus out of us, and he was lucky it didn't happen on a dangerous part of the route. end of his ride, 5 minutes after it started. arguably an alloy wheel may have been easier to predict failure. the carbon wheel didn't have wear indicator holes or anything to judge use by date.

- just because you pay 4x the price for a wheel, doesn't mean it will last any longer.

i prefer alloy wheels because I think they are easier to true, and you can replace the rims if generic enough.
most of my riding when over 35kph is in a pack sharing the lead, so deep dish aero ain't the ducks nuts. plus there's always wind after 7am on most of my rides.
and full alloy wheels don't have issues with delamination. plus I don't know if carbon/alloy composites are inferior with heat dissipation during braking.

Rather than buy 404s, I'd rather have 2x sub $800 wheelsets, the second set on a backup bike, for when (not if) I have a mechanical.
There's nothing worse than trashing a component on Good Friday , and being rideless for the rest of the hols.
User avatar
PawPaw
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Brisbane

Upgrading wheels...

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:18 am

PawPaw wrote:most of my riding when over 35kph is in a pack sharing the lead, so deep dish aero ain't the ducks nuts. plus there's always wind after 7am on most of my rides.

most of my ride today was at over 35kmph in a pack with large amounts of time on the front in a strong wind... Funnily felt exactly the opposite about my wheels :-)
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14032
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby Comedian » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:28 am

toolonglegs wrote:
PawPaw wrote:most of my riding when over 35kph is in a pack sharing the lead, so deep dish aero ain't the ducks nuts. plus there's always wind after 7am on most of my rides.

most of my ride today was at over 35kmph in a pack with large amounts of time on the front in a strong wind... Funnily felt exactly the opposite about my wheels :-)

I feel the same way. It's the higher speed rides is exactly the time you want the deep dish wheels. The wind thing is a furphy. I've only ever felt a gust strong enough to feel something through the bars and it really isn't that dramatic and certainly manageable unless you're intending on practising your "no handed bike moves". :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby PawPaw » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:09 am

It's amusing to see guys riding deep dish too stiff or sore to get in the drops for any length of time.
I've seen the line of some deep dishies in a cross wind on the Ted Smout bridge and Flinders Pde. No furphy ime.

I often wonder if the subjective benefits one feels on deep dish is primarily more stable steering (when there's not a cross wind).
User avatar
PawPaw
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Brisbane

Upgrading wheels...

Postby Comedian » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:05 pm

You should ride a set sometime.

Thing is... Until your doing 40+ they aren't worth the trouble.

I remember my fist bike shop sprint with them. All of a sudden I was a top 5 finisher. ;)

Long rides like Bris-gc they are awesome. For anything hilly it's not so clear cut. I'm thinking about whether to use them on the noosa 160.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby PawPaw » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:58 pm

Rode a mate's bike with 404s a few times, at NundahDome and Scarborough. I did actually seriously consider firecrests last year, but realized the money could be better spent elsewhere...and my average rides don't justify them.

In the meantime, I'll focus on the aero advantages of
- getting the bars down another spacer
- trialing a longer 110 and 120mm stem.
- 10% bodyfat.

and
- sustaining 40+kph for longer than my current solo wind and gravity unassisted 5-6 minute threshold.
User avatar
PawPaw
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby Ken Ho » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:09 am

Without joining the deep carbon vs alu bunfight, that's a pretty slim list you have put up, considering how many options there are out there.
If you want some more bling wheels, look at a Campag Shamals. Good aero, not too heavy, not too expensive and have cultural synergy with your nice Italian frame.
You have officially become your parents.
Ken Ho
 
Posts: 1256
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:28 pm
Location: Pikey, based on Southern Gold Coast

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby janus77 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:02 am

I've had RS80's for a couple of years, no issues, i would recommend them to anyone. They're very light and ride well.
User avatar
janus77
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:09 pm

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby toppity » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:39 am

I'm about 100kg. I've had a set of RS80s that came on my CAAD9 for 18 months now. They have done a heap of km's and are still great. I've raced and trained on them with zero problems.

9 months ago I bought a set of Chinese 60mm carbon tubulars. They were o.k. but not great. They were not very stiff so I sold them.

In the last 6 months I've bought a set of 2008 404's tubulars and found them to be very good. Light, stiffish and responsive. They only get used for racing and I noticed the difference straight away, but I will use the RS80s in racing with strong crosswinds.

I've just purchased a old mismatched set of Zipp 440s tubulars which I plan on using as training wheels on my new Six13. It will be interesting to see how they go.

I've also owned a set of RS30s which I planned on using as training wheels, but they just didn't do it for me and I couldn't even bring myself to train on them. Too heavy, didn't roll too well and left me feeling very slow. I know you should train heavy and race light, but the extreme was too great for me.

I also have a pair of 20 year old Shimano 600 hubs on Mavic Open 4CD training wheels that are great and bullet proof, but I'm looking for a 10 speed free hub for the 6402 rear hub, which I'm struggling to find, to keep them going. I really want to get it right because you can never have enough wheels. :D
I ride several bicycles, but not at once.
toppity
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 am
Location: West Gippsland, Victoria

Re: Upgrading wheels...

Postby PawPaw » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:40 pm

toppity wrote:I'm about 100kg. I've had a set of RS80s that came on my CAAD9 for 18 months now. They have done a heap of km's and are still great. I've raced and trained on them with zero problems.


Forget talking in months. How many km's ya got on tha RS80s; and what kind of of terrain? how many pot holes have you jumped? how much gravel road? etc.
User avatar
PawPaw
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Brisbane

Next

Return to Road Biking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist