ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Nobody » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:57 pm

dan97 wrote:In conclusion

Aluminium or Carbon?

Lets say i have a budget of $1500
Aluminium. You will (all other things being equal) get a better quality bike for your money without the associated hassles of carbon assembly and care.
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by BNA » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:18 pm

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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby dan97 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:18 pm

Nobody wrote:
dan97 wrote:In conclusion

Aluminium or Carbon?

Lets say i have a budget of $1500
Aluminium. You will (all other things being equal) get a better quality bike for your money without the associated hassles of carbon assembly and care.
Would it be the same if i had a budget of $4000
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby cyclotaur » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:23 pm

dan97 wrote:
Nobody wrote:
dan97 wrote:In conclusion

Aluminium or Carbon?

Lets say i have a budget of $1500
Aluminium. You will (all other things being equal) get a better quality bike for your money without the associated hassles of carbon assembly and care.
Would it be the same if i had a budget of $4000

I doubt you'll find an Al bike in that price range ...
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:28 pm

No.

As stated earlier, expensive Al is a better choice than cheap Cf. Remember, the cost portion for groupset and other bits will stay fairly constant across the range. Tiagra on a great frame is a better buy than Ultegra on an average frame.
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Nobody » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:15 am

dan97 wrote:Would it be the same if i had a budget of $4000
It begs the question, why do you want to spend $4000 on a bike?

There is a guy at my work who does long 140Km group rides and had a $1200 Al bike. He upgraded to a higher end carbon bike (secondhand) and told me it didn't make him any faster. So if the point of road bikes is to go faster, but an expensive carbon bike doesn't make most people go faster (to a noticeable degree) then what's the point?

If it's about comfort, then Mr Zinn's (very qualified) opinion I posted initially shows that you are probably better off buying magnesium, titanium or steel rather than carbon for comfort (although other things will make more difference like style of manufacture, tyre pressure, saddle selection, bar tape, etc).

However, if it's about image and impressing people, then you usually have a winner with carbon.

Buy what you want. Just don't fool yourself that it's much more than image you are buying at the high end. Remember that the law of diminishing returns are at work with the more you pay.
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:36 am

$1,500 will buy a good quality aluminium frame, but is the low end of the market for carbon fibre.

At that price point I'd go for aluminium, or better yet... steel.
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:42 am

dan97 wrote:Would it be the same if i had a budget of $4000

Nope. At that price point, it's an entirely different ball game.
Nobody wrote:It begs the question, why do you want to spend $4000 on a bike?

He can do what he likes, and should be able to without being sneered at. :x
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Nobody » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:08 am

rkelsen wrote:He can do what he likes, and should be able to without being sneered at. :x
I think you misread this. I didn't sneer at anyone, or put any significant emotion into it. If you were to meet me, you'd find as a technical person, I'm fairly emotionless. If I was 15 years old, I don't think I'd be significantly advantaged by a $4K bike that I'm likely to outgrow in a few years, just to lose a lot of money due to depreciation.
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:55 pm

Gentlemen, a little decorum if you don't mind.

I do get the feeling that young Dan is sucking very hard at the teat of knowledge represented by the members here.
Rhetorical and hypothetical questions are an excellent way of doing this quickly. My guess is most of us wish we had had such easy access to such a diverse range of knowledge and experience way back in the mists of time when we were his age.

More power to him I say.

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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby waramatt » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:02 pm

I agree with those who replied that there is no simple answer. I say this because I have 3 x steel bikes, 2 x aluminium and 1 x carbon and I love them all. Each one is really comfortable to ride, but in different ways. The carbon bike is the lightest, but only 500g lighter than my 7005 aluminium Felt Dispatch. Unless you race comp I reckon weight as a factor is overrated.

I can't speak for its veracity, but I once read an article about a guy in England who kept stats for commute time on his carbon and steely bikes. Over a 40km or so daily round-trip commute the travel time only varied by 1-2m mins.

I reckon you can look at a bunch of bikes in a shop and for no particular reason, a bike will jump out at you. The next bloke might think it incredibly ugly, but you love it. If you then take that bike for a pedal and like it, then go with that.

My problem is I love so many of them. N+1 :lol:

Good luck with your purchase, whatever you decide!
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Parrott » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:38 pm

You will have worked out that Nobody is very passionate in his opposition to carbon.

Disregard most of that drivel he posts :P

Most carbon bicycle frames are very nice to ride. The frame can be made to be stiff laterally but still have a relatively compliant ride vertically and all while lighter than the other major frame materials. The majority of people who own carbon bikes seem very happy with them IME. Go out and test ride a few and work it out for yourself.
If you do choose carbon it needs to be treated with care, which is not that hard to do if you value an item.
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Parrott » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:47 pm

dan97 wrote:In conclusion

Aluminium or Carbon?

Lets say i have a budget of $1500


Just read that post. At that price point have a look here; http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=51377

Otherwise go Aluminium or Nobody's fave an old steel beater :P
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Nobody » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:26 pm

waramatt wrote:I can't speak for its veracity, but I once read an article about a guy in England who kept stats for commute time on his carbon and steely bikes. Over a 40km or so daily round-trip commute the travel time only varied by 1-2m mins.
This one?
http://road.cc/content/news/28400-docto ... over-steel

I like this quote from the link above.
Although buying the carbon bike made Mr Graves feel good and he still sometimes uses it for commuting, he enjoys riding the steel bike more. And if the carbon bike were stolen, would he replace it? “I’d have to say no. I’d spend the money on high visibility low drag clothing and better lights.”
Last edited by Nobody on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Nobody » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:32 pm

Parrott wrote:You will have worked out that Nobody is very passionate in his opposition to carbon.

Disregard most of that drivel he posts :P
C'mon. How boring would it be if everyone agreed that carbon was the most wonderful thing since sliced bread? Somebody has to be the "villain" and introduce a logic argument into these forums' carbon love-fest. :P
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Nobody » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Parrott wrote:
dan97 wrote:In conclusion

Aluminium or Carbon?

Lets say i have a budget of $1500


Just read that post. At that price point have a look here; http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=51377

Otherwise go Aluminium or Nobody's fave an old steel beater :P
Hey! My "steel beater" is not old! And I have two other bikes which are Al. And I've owned a carbon one in the past. Some people just love pigeon-hole me. I suppose it has to be expected being the anti-carbon "villain". :P
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:59 pm

dan97 wrote:
Nobody wrote:
dan97 wrote:In conclusion

Aluminium or Carbon?

Lets say i have a budget of $1500
Aluminium. You will (all other things being equal) get a better quality bike for your money without the associated hassles of carbon assembly and care.
Would it be the same if i had a budget of $4000


Here is a Pro-Lite Bella GP we built for a customer with Sram Red on it, the build came up over $4000. Of course the wheels were a significant part of that.. The bike pictured is about 6.6-6.7kg. I don't know how many carbon framed bikes you could get to that weight with that kind of budget?

With a good alloy wheel, Sram Red built up with the top end gear it wouldn't be hard to spend $3500 or there abouts and you'd end up with a bike about 6.9kg.

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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby dan97 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:19 pm

in my opinion, i would prefer to have aluminium or steel. However, The old indi 500 frame that i have is still in good condition so i might just put aluminium parts on that to keep the cost down.

This argument is similar to an argument i brought up in the R/C world. Brushless (acting as Carbon) is better than Brushed motors (Aluminium). This may not make sense to some of you guys but this statement is just not true! The brushless sells better because the pros use them. But Brushed motors have their good points to!
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby jimsheedy » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:31 pm

arand18 wrote:A high end aluminium frame will outperform a low end carbon fiber frame.


define a low end carbon frame
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Parrott » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:33 pm

Nobody wrote:How boring would it be if everyone agreed that carbon was the most wonderful thing since sliced bread? Somebody has to be the "villain"


Oh I don't know I reckon you'll come good in the end. :wink:

And anyway your helmet is carbon :P

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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Parrott » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:00 am

I think this video matches the title of the thread. Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Video-of-the-Month-February-2012.html
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby rkelsen » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:11 am

I used to be an advocate for steel (and anti-disc brakes & electronic shifting), but have since come to the conclusion that arguing about these things is rather pointless. I love bikes. Full stop.

I love seeing advances of all kinds. I love retro hardware of all kinds. I love trying different things to see how they work. Sometimes I think they're better, sometimes I think they're worse. Sometimes I agree with popular opinion, sometimes I don't.

You like what you like. I like what I like. Why argue about it? :D
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby Parrott » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:51 am

Who's arguing I'm just stirring Nobody and Vice Versa? :lol:

Not much in life is completely black and white or cut and dried and frame materials are no exception. Each material has its own pluses and minuses, and the correct choice of material depends alot on its intended use.

If I am using it though it is cut and dried, carbon all the way :twisted:
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:07 pm

jimsheedy wrote:
arand18 wrote:A high end aluminium frame will outperform a low end carbon fiber frame.


define a low end carbon frame


I'd define a carbon frame that is heavier than an alloy frame of similar or lower price to be "low end"

Of course there is much more to it than that but weight is something you can put a number on.

I'd define high-end carbon as any known "good" brand carbon frame that is sub 1kg weight.
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby yarravalleyplodder » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Hi Dan

I reckon the answer to this debate is a mixture of carbon & aluminium

Get a Felt F75 with a 7005 Superlite butted aluminum frame attached to an Advanced monocoque carbon fibre fork

A Felt F75 will cost you less that $1500 (just) http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/bicycles/felt/road/f75/northbridge/wa/102093946

They are a lovely bike, quick off the mark, not bad on the hills and 105 is not the best but far from the worst groupset out there.

I know I am biased as I own one but I am yet to hear from a Felt F75 owner who doesnt love their bike :mrgreen:

Seriously though, my budget was $1500 and all the research I did led me to the conclusion that in that price bracket you were going to get better bang for your buck with an aluminium bike
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Re: ALUMINIUM VS CARBON FIBRE

Postby bossonbike » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:00 pm

aluminium bikes actually keep up well with carbon I don't see that much of a difference especially with the lower end carbon bikes
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