ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:06 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
KL. wrote:Hi jacks1071, to ask, what is the current cost of a Bracciano rear wheel + delivery ... and the cost of an axle, 2 main bearings, and a freehub + deivery ... thanks

Quote emailed. I don't have any loose rear wheels at the moment but PM me and I'll work something out on a new set.

Hey jacks1071, thanks and appreciated ... will be in touch soon :-)
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by BNA » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:37 pm

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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:37 pm

jacks1071 wrote:1. Remove the cassette
2. Remove the hub cones (2x 5mm allen keys required)
3. Hit the drive side axle with a rubber mallet, a few good short sharp hits and the non-drive side bearing will pop out and you can pass the axle straight through the hub to remove it at that point.
4. Stick a screw driver through the non-drive side where the bearing used to be, ensure you have that screw driver in the bearing and not on the hub as you don't want to mark the hub. Bash it out with a hammer. That bearing will be completely ruined in this process.

That's it in terms of getting them out. Step 4 would normally be done with a bearing puller at a workshop but if you are careful you won't damage anything.

Hi jacks1071, sorry I have been away ... thanks, the instructions worked perfectly. Interestingly, the DS 6901 HC bearing was the one that was damaged and was very tight in the hub. NDS bearing is fine and reusable.

The DS axle machining tolerance is so fine that without freezing the bearing the bearing won't slide on (even using DuraAce grease). NDS is fine, any 6901 bearing slides on reasonably easy. The needle roller axle bearing surface looks ok, although it definitely shows that the needle roller has been rotating on the axle bearing surface. I have been using DuraAce grease on the needle roller and axle bearing surface and even the on the Freehub pawls and hub teeth. I will use DuraAce grease in reassembly.

Now to put everything back together ... hey jacks1071, assembly instructions, please, to be sure (to be sure) :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:24 pm

Glad you finally had a go at pulling it down, not as difficult as you were expecting I bet?

The hubs are a nice design and so easy to maintain with a little experience.

The only real trap with putting the bearings back in is to make sure you don't forget to fit the axle before you put the last bearing in.

Basically, fit the drive side bearing. Put the axle in and then install the non drive side. Be sure that you've frozen the bearings first, if the bearing slips on you are good. Normally you'll need a socket the same diameter as the bearing outer that you can use to very carefully tap the bearing into place.

When it comes to re-instaling the freehub, make sure the seal goes in the right way. The freehub outer seal, pop it out with an allen key and sit it into the groove on the drive side cone. If you don't do that, the cone can pinch that seal and cause some friction. Once its done up, work an allen key around the outside of the seal to seat it.

Do the cones up firm. If you want to use a torque wrench probably 8-10Nm.

Re-install your cassette, make sure you torque the lock-ring to 40Nm.

Go riding :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:46 am

Hey jacks1071, thanks and appreciated ... should be in touch tomorrow :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:03 am

Hi jacks1071, all done, and there are a couple of little tricks to use when reassembling :-)

It's important to do the DS bearing first (as suggested) and it's important to use an Ezo 6901RU bearing on the DS.
I found that if I used another 6901 bearing, like the HC 6901 bearing, it greatly affected the freehub ratcheting and it would not ratchet freely (or as freely).
The whole DS seems to be toleranced around the design of the Ezo 6901RU bearing ( ... is this the case!!! ).
Hey jacks1071, could an EZO 6901LLB be used on the DS?

I also found that after I inserted the NDS bearing that that bearings were a little tight ( ... should this occur!!! ).
So I tapped the DS axle a little with a rubber mallet to back off the NDS bearing just a little bit then all was fine and smooth running, without axle play.
This cannot be done to the DS bearing as it affects the freehub rotation.

Before inserting the freehub, I used DA grease on the main seal, needle roller/axle surface, and hub ratchet teeth, and used teflon oil the outer seal, pawls, and a little on the hub ratchet teeth.
Everything is now working very nicely.

Actually I was looking at a wheel that used DT SWISS 240S hubs and I think that with the maintenance I have just done to the Bracciano hub, that it now spins/ratchets just as nicely :-) Although, the DT SWISS 240S probably has much longer maintenance intervals.

Do I still like the needle roller bearing, well, it would be wonderful if it was a Ezo sealed bearing with a 12mm ID. That would make it a low maintenance hub :-)
The 10mm axle is probably just strong enough ...
With a bit fiddling and care this can be a nice hub/wheel.


Hey jacks1071, can a freehub without the needle bearing, be used?
Do you use the ProLite spoke ties on the NDS spoke crossing points?

Sorry, I haven't contacted you as yet, but I certainly plan too, soon :-)
Thanks for the hub maintenance instructions, appreciated, they are extremely helpful ...
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:15 am

KL. wrote:The whole DS seems to be toleranced around the design of the Ezo 6901RU bearing ( ... is this the case!!! ).
Hey jacks1071, could an EZO 6901LLB be used on the DS?

I also found that after I inserted the NDS bearing that that bearings were a little tight ( ... should this occur!!! ).

Actually I was looking at a wheel that used DT SWISS 240S hubs and I think that with the maintenance I have just done to the Bracciano hub, that it now spins/ratchets just as nicely :-) Although, the DT SWISS 240S probably has much longer maintenance intervals.

Do I still like the needle roller bearing, well, it would be wonderful if it was a Ezo sealed bearing with a 12mm ID. That would make it a low maintenance hub :-)
The 10mm axle is probably just strong enough ...
With a bit fiddling and care this can be a nice hub/wheel.


Hey jacks1071, can a freehub without the needle bearing, be used?
Do you use the ProLite spoke ties on the NDS spoke crossing points?

Sorry, I haven't contacted you as yet, but I certainly plan too, soon :-)
Thanks for the hub maintenance instructions, appreciated, they are extremely helpful ...


You've got a lot of questions in there. I'll try to answer them all.

Please use the bearing 6901RU for the hub body.

New bearings will always be a little tight due to fresh grease etc, they will free up after a couple of hundred kms.

I wouldn't be doing any more or less service intervals on a DT Swiss hub than I'd do on the Bracciano. If the hub gets contaminated damage can occur, regular maintenance will help minimise that damage. By all means stretch out the service intervals but don't complain if you have a bearing get contaminated, fail and chew out the axle as a result...

You possibly could leave out the needle roller but I wouldn't. Its supporting the axle, if you snapped the axle in the freehub area it could be a catastrophic failure. You could press it out and press a bush in if you wanted to, that'd be a step backwards though. You know how to service it now, when the freehub gets loud pop it off and re-grease it.

The bearings should be a tight fit, a shop mechanic with all the correct tools would use a bearing press to install them. Home mechanic can do a similar job with the right sized socket and a hammer.

I use the NDS braces, they arn't required but offer a small improvement in stiffness without any other penality.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:42 pm

Hi jacks1071, can another type of freehub, that does not have the needle bearing, be used with this axle?
I think that the current freehub is an E Type. Perhaps a B1 Type can be used ... does that sound correct?

What grease/oil do you like to use around the pawls and ratchet teeth?

Do you think that Prolite will make the Bracciano with a 23mm wide rim, same 27mm depth, and similar weight (~1500 gms)?
I think this would be an excellent wheel ... what do you think?

I really appreciate the hub guidance that you have provided ... thanks very muchly :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:18 pm

KL. wrote:Hi jacks1071, can another type of freehub, that does not have the needle bearing, be used with this axle?
I think that the current freehub is an E Type. Perhaps a B1 Type can be used ... does that sound correct?

What grease/oil do you like to use around the pawls and ratchet teeth?

Do you think that Prolite will make the Bracciano with a 23mm wide rim, same 27mm depth, and similar weight (~1500 gms)?
I think this would be an excellent wheel ... what do you think?

I really appreciate the hub guidance that you have provided ... thanks very muchly :-)


I use Rock N Roll Red Devil. Shimano (green) grease is also good.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:12 am

Hi jacks1071, I have just noticed that my Allein rear wheel bearings appear to have play, also.
I only put them on early last year and they have only done about 1,000kms (definitely less than 1,500) and only been used on the road ... ie. I am running road tyres on them :-)

To ask, is the hub maintenance essentially the same as the Bracciano hub?
thanks
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:22 am

KL. wrote:Hi jacks1071, I have just noticed that my Allein rear wheel bearings appear to have play, also.
I only put them on early last year and they have only done about 1,000kms (definitely less than 1,500) and only been used on the road ... ie. I am running road tyres on them :-)

To ask, is the hub maintenance essentially the same as the Bracciano hub?
thanks


Yes pretty much the same except you need some flat spanners to get the cones off from memory.

A little bit of play is OK - unless its excessive it would be a waste to replace the hub bearings.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:27 pm

Thanks jacks1071, is this a cone and bearing hub? No worries, I shall look into it ... thanks
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:26 am

KL. wrote:Thanks jacks1071, is this a cone and bearing hub? No worries, I shall look into it ... thanks


No, it runs sealed bearings - similar design to the Bracciano hub.

You can disassemble yourself no problem if you've done the Bracciano yourself, the proceedure is exactly the same. You'll just need a couple of cone spanners, 15mm from memory but check yourself before purchasing as I havn't had to do an Allein hub for a while. Its self explanatory once you pull it down.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:16 pm

Thanks jacks1071, no worries :-)

It must be using spanner end caps rather than Allen Key ...
I will let you know. Looks like it will be raining alot this w/e, so probably a good time to check :-)

If I have any issues I will ask ... appreciated :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:18 pm

KL. wrote:Hi jacks1071, do you think that Prolite will make the Bracciano with a 23mm wide rim, same 27mm depth, and similar weight (~1500 gms)? I think this would be an excellent wheel ...

Hi jacks1071, what do you think :-)

Here's an example - Pacenti SL23 ... http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/finally-rim-ive-been-waiting-talk-about-pacenti-sl23-299203.html ... looks alot like the Bracciano rim but in a 23/24mm rim :-)
Description wrote:This rim brings together several of our favorite rim design elements, including wide profile, aerodynamic shape, and tubeless-friendly compatibility, along with stout construction and a balanced compromise between strength and weight. “SL23” may strike some as a misnomer, since this rim actually measures in at a solid 24 mm. Despite its slight excess bulge, the SL23 is meant to compete with the increasingly popular 23 mm wide road rims. For reference, a road rim historically has measured in widths between 19 and 21 mm. The benefit of a wider rim is that the tire bead hooks are spread further apart, simultaneously rounding out the tire’s profile and increasing the tire’s internal air volume. This allows the use of lower tire pressures, increasing rider comfort while decreasing rolling resistance. Also, when using a standard 23mm-wide tire, a small improvement in aerodynamics will be experienced through a smoother airflow transition between the rim sidewall and tire.

The SL23 features an incredibly strong internally sleeved and welded seam. Following welding, the rim’s braking surfaces are machined smooth and parallel for the best possible braking response. Wear indicators on both sides serve as an indispensable safety feature, signaling when the rim sidewall has become too thin to sustain the forces exerted by the tire’s air pressure.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:57 pm

I think you should try a set of 25mm tyres.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:16 am

jacks1071 wrote:I think you should try a set of 25mm tyres.

Hey jacks1071, do you think that using a 25mm tyre, on the 20mm wide Bracciano rim, will give the benefits that they are saying about a using a 23mm tyre (or 25mm tyre) on a 23mm wide rim :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:01 am

KL. wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:I think you should try a set of 25mm tyres.

Hey jacks1071, do you think that using a 25mm tyre, on the 20mm wide Bracciano rim, will give the benefits that they are saying about a using a 23mm tyre (or 25mm tyre) on a 23mm wide rim :-)


Short of wind tunnel testing for aero dynamic comparison, yes the end result will be almost identical. You'll have all the benefits of bigger contact patch, lower rolling resistance on rough roads, more air volume, increased comfort, you can run 10psi less than your normal 23mm pressures.

Try it out :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jasonc » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:39 am

is there a video on the Bracciano maintenance?
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:24 pm

jasonc wrote:is there a video on the Bracciano maintenance?

Hi jasonc, I used this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E5p9Lf0Dkg along with jacks1071 really good instructions. It is not the Bracciano hub but it is quite close ...

Hey jacks1071, could you have a look at this video and let us know what you think of it ... thanks :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby Rex » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:43 pm

Snapped a spoke on my rear Bracciano the other week. Didn't run over anything, was going at jogging speed.
Done several thousand km's in them so still very happy with the wheels... just caught me by surprise considering they had 0 stress on them at the time.

Shop replaced the spoke with a non-Pro Lite blade spoke which is a tiny bit thicker, mildy noticeable but I'm not going to worry about it.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:16 pm

Rex wrote:Snapped a spoke on my rear Bracciano the other week. Didn't run over anything, was going at jogging speed.
Done several thousand km's in them so still very happy with the wheels... just caught me by surprise considering they had 0 stress on them at the time.

Shop replaced the spoke with a non-Pro Lite blade spoke which is a tiny bit thicker, mildy noticeable but I'm not going to worry about it.

Hi Rex, that's unfortunate, was that a rear spoke on the DS (Drive/Cassette Side) or NDS (Non Drive Side)? If it's the NDS then the new wheels have spoke ties on the NDS which helps with spoke friction/movement at the crosses. Have you done much maintenance on your wheels, ie freehub bearing regreasing/replacement, etc ...

Hey jacks1071, are the NDS spoke ties individually available. Is there an 11spd freehub available for the Bracciano. If so, could you give us more details/information :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby Rex » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:46 pm

Hey KL,

It was on the NDS, and I had the spoke ties installed also.
I've done absolutely no maintenance on the hubs at all.
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby KL. » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:12 pm

Rex wrote:Hey KL, it was on the NDS, and I had the spoke ties installed also.
I've done absolutely no maintenance on the hubs at all.

Hey Rex interesting, let us know if another NDS spoke breaks in the future. If ok to ask, what is your weight. I seem to vary anywhere between 85 and 95kgs and I have not had a spoke break but I have not used the spoke ties, as yet ... the spoke ties should create a laterally stiffer wheel but perhaps they might cause spoke stress!!!

No maintenance, that's amazing ... I must have been unlucky ... do you like your Braccianos :-)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby Rex » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:17 pm

I'm 80kg
I don't think the spoke ties have anything to do with it. I suspect that spoke had been stressed in the past and for whatever reason it decided to give up on that day.

Bracciano's are the best bang-for-buck wheel going around so I think they're great. Should I look after them more? Sure... but so far so good and when they go I'll upgrade them :)
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Re: ProLite Bracciano Rear Hub Maintenance

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:43 pm

KL. wrote:
Hey jacks1071, are the NDS spoke ties individually available. Is there an 11spd freehub available for the Bracciano. If so, could you give us more details/information :-)


Yes I've got the braces in stock.

11sp freehub is comming soon, I can accept pre-orders on them and I should have them on hand late April.
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