Average speeds?

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Re: Average speeds?

Postby RonK » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:28 pm

mikesbytes wrote:So what speed does that give you at 140rpm?

53 x 11 x 140 = 85kph
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by BNA » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:20 am

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Re: Average speeds?

Postby pawnii » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:20 am

Who hits 85km/h on the flat anyway?


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Re: Average speeds?

Postby Giantrider1997 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:05 am

At sandown in C grade we're averaging 50kph uphill on the backstraight.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby pawnii » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:35 am

That's a short and shallow uphill and I'm guessing your in a pack.

Would u hit 85km/h sprinting for the finish in A grade?


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Re: Average speeds?

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:51 am

I've hit 72kph on a slightly downhill sprint by using other riders and tail wind assisted.

Anyway the point being that worrying about top gear tends to more a cadence issue for many riders
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby Derny Driver » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:36 pm

pawnii wrote:That's a short and shallow uphill and I'm guessing your in a pack.

Would u hit 85km/h sprinting for the finish in A grade?


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Ive been in plenty of A grade sprint finishes and won more than my fair share. Never needed anything more than 53-14.
If a person reckons they need 53-11 then they should email Lotto and ask for Andre Greipels job.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby nickobec » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:33 pm

Derny Driver wrote:...Never needed anything more than 53-14.
If a person reckons they need 53-11 then they should ...


That assumes you are riding on the flat, I have raced a hilly handicap that finished with a 6km descent. I wanted more than a 53/11 as I have trouble maintaining a cadence of 110+rpm for a more than a couple of minutes. Still caught a couple of people on the descent, but got passed by others including a couple of under 17s riding reduced gearing.

Also assumes you can keep (or want) a high cadence, the only other time I wanted more than 53/11 was on my TT bike with a strong tailwind. My preferred cadence on a TT bike is 75, I was putting in 85 until my legs told me too fast, too hard and I needed to drop the cadence
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:09 am

nic, you would probably benefit from training yourself for a higher cadence. I'd say at those cadences that you probably suffer unnecessary fatigue. A higher cadence means you put less power into each pedal stroke, but its a complex topic and there are different solutions for different people.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby foo on patrol » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:15 am

I am a big believer in spinning two days a week on the road. :wink:

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Re: Average speeds?

Postby Metor » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:25 pm

mikesbytes wrote:nic, you would probably benefit from training yourself for a higher cadence. I'd say at those cadences that you probably suffer unnecessary fatigue. A higher cadence means you put less power into each pedal stroke, but its a complex topic and there are different solutions for different people.

+1
Many times I averaged (!) 105rpm over a 3 hour race... Took me a few years of training before I could keep a high cadence for longer period of times.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby twizzle » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:56 pm

mikesbytes wrote:nic, you would probably benefit from training yourself for a higher cadence. I'd say at those cadences that you probably suffer unnecessary fatigue. A higher cadence means you put less power into each pedal stroke, but its a complex topic and there are different solutions for different people.


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Can't fight genetics.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby pawnii » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:11 pm

Can anyone here average 40ish on the flat, say over 40kms?


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Re: Average speeds?

Postby pawnii » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:17 pm

Can anyone here average 40ish on the flat alone, say over 40kms on a road bike?


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Re: Average speeds?

Postby foo on patrol » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:26 pm

That's a big effort to achieve and maintain. :wink:

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Re: Average speeds?

Postby Derny Driver » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:27 pm

pawnii wrote:Can anyone here average 40ish on the flat alone, say over 40kms on a road bike?


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Yes my son who is 17, on a road bike, on an undulating course.

Last 3 TTs (this year)
9km @44kph
18km @41kph
40km @39.8kph

That was using a disc wheel, 60mm front and clip on bars. Slid the seat forward about 20mm.
He's doing his HSC and not training hard but is going well in club A grade.
Next year he will be able to train better and should improve even more.
Id like to say he has my genes but I think he got my dads (his grandads)
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby twizzle » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:44 pm

"Maybe". My estimated FTP is currently ~ 380W.

On April 2, 2011 in a 50km road race at Gunning with a long flat straight, I held 40.4kph for 1Km at 363W.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby mjd » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:14 pm

Flat & smooth road & on a road bike, very little wind as well. Solid Zone 3 ride for me & weigh around 69kg atm. Bottom right corner of image, distance 40.58km with avg speed of 40.5kph. Ideal conditions weather wise & road surface wise. Always enjoy this tempo ride as its on the gas uninterrupted apart from the point where I turn around to head back. Conditions play a major part in averages, means little really in the scheme of things. I could do same ride on a windy day with same wattage & avg 37kph or less.


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Re: Average speeds?

Postby barefoot » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:21 pm

pawnii wrote:Can anyone here average 40ish on the flat alone, say over 40kms on a road bike?


The weekend before last, a group I was riding with averaged well above 40km/h over a 20km stretch of road.

http://app.strava.com/segments/2690660

Check us all out on 23/3/2013 :mrgreen:

Granted, it was a gentle downhill, and we had a howling tailwind pushing us across a very exposed open plain... but I can stand proudly and claim that I've averaged 46km/h over 21km :mrgreen: ... and in the middle of a 160km ride at that :wink:

Just don't ask me to turn around and maintain the same speed back the other way :oops:

We were each riding solo, no drafting... because there was really nothing to be gained by holding a wheel. It was like riding in still air at ~35km/h :lol:

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Last edited by barefoot on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby pawnii » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:21 pm

Wow that's fast. I can't imagine ever bring able to do that.
I averaged 34kmh solo the other week on Beach road and I was wrapped haha


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Re: Average speeds?

Postby twizzle » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:42 pm

Wrapped in what? Or did you mean 'rapt'? :P

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Re: Average speeds?

Postby Derny Driver » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:44 pm

pawnii wrote:Wow that's fast. I can't imagine ever bring able to do that.
I averaged 34kmh solo the other week on Beach road and I was wrapped haha


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Which brings me back to my point that average speeds mean nothing. If you could do 34 on beach road i reckon i could coach you to a 40kph time trial in a matter of months. On the same fitness the various factors involved are limitless. I could change your bike position and gain you a free 5 kph. Put you in a race and see the difference adrenalin makes. Teach you how to gain seconds by riding on the fastet part of the road... how to pace yourself ...what gears to use ... the list goes on. Wind, hills, humidity ...so many factors. And we havent even begun talking how individuals may be geneticall predisposed for or against riding fast as an indvidual. I used to average 26 kph on my training rides but raced A grade in nsw biggest club. What you do on a training ride means zero.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby Nikolai » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:00 pm

twizzle wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:nic, you would probably benefit from training yourself for a higher cadence. I'd say at those cadences that you probably suffer unnecessary fatigue. A higher cadence means you put less power into each pedal stroke, but its a complex topic and there are different solutions for different people.


Linky.

Can't fight genetics.


Muscle fiber type and cadence is apples and oranges. One is a property of genetics while the other is a property of training, i.e. the latter can be trained while the former remains more or less the same. In other words, your muscle fiber make up has no bearing on your cadence.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby vander » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:42 pm

Nikolai wrote:
twizzle wrote:Linky.

Can't fight genetics.


Muscle fiber type and cadence is apples and oranges. One is a property of genetics while the other is a property of training, i.e. the latter can be trained while the former remains more or less the same. In other words, your muscle fiber make up has no bearing on your cadence.


Actually the former can change and does as a result of training but there is physiological limits on it.

I agree that the latter (cadence) is more of a motor pattern issue.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby nickobec » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:45 pm

mikesbytes wrote:nic, you would probably benefit from training yourself for a higher cadence.


The two figures I quoted, do not demonstrate what cadences I do ride at on a road bike.
On my race bike, if I am commuting or riding in a bunch my cadence is usually in the 85 to 95 range
If I am working hard, interval training or on the front of the bunch my cadence is usually in the 95 to 105 range
If I am attacking, sprinting etc my cadence may start as low as 60 and will top out at 120, but I once I get going my cadence in usually in 105 to 115 range..

If I ride my 53/16 singlespeed I am usually around 80 to 85rpm aka 32 to 35kph. Last time took I it out on a group ride, was close to 44kph for a 1.5km "sprint" and maxed out at 48kph

My TT bike is quite different, I will use a decent 90+ cadence to get up to speed, then settle in around 80 for the duration of the TT. That what is working for me at the moment, consistently improving and best performing TT rider in my grade.

Give me a flat, smooth and well maintained road surface, high temperatures (30C+) and no wind, In one hour I would cover 35km on my road/race bike at a cadence of 100 and 38km on my TT bike at a cadence of 80.
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Re: Average speeds?

Postby twizzle » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:27 pm

vander wrote:
Nikolai wrote:
twizzle wrote:Linky.

Can't fight genetics.


Muscle fiber type and cadence is apples and oranges. One is a property of genetics while the other is a property of training, i.e. the latter can be trained while the former remains more or less the same. In other words, your muscle fiber make up has no bearing on your cadence.


Actually the former can change and does as a result of training but there is physiological limits on it.

I agree that the latter (cadence) is more of a motor pattern issue.


Did you read Part II? The bit about power-velocity. I find high cadences exhausting, my HR goes up for the same power. And I'm not seeing many TT guys running 53/12, it's all 54 or 55/11. There are no hard/fast rules for self selected cadences, but as a rule of thumb the track specialists like to spin, the TT specialists prefer to grind.


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