Groupsets?

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Re: Groupsets?

Postby ldrcycles » Mon May 20, 2013 5:49 pm

Dan wrote:Try them all and buy the one you like best.


+1.


But REAL cyclists use SunTour :D .

(the SunTour Cyclone rear derailleur from 1975-80 was lighter than Dura Ace until the 7900).
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by BNA » Mon May 20, 2013 8:59 pm

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Re: Groupsets?

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon May 20, 2013 8:59 pm

Nothing is lighter than a 1970's Huret Jubilee. And not an ounce of titanium or carbon fibre in sight.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby nickobec » Mon May 20, 2013 10:42 pm

Dan wrote:Try them all and buy the one you like best.


+2

Have 3 different varieties of shimano 6500, 5600 & 6600

Experimented with Campagnolo on my pose bike, but hate the ergonomics

Next bike had SRAM Rival, loved double tap, now have two race bikes with SRAM Red

Acquired a TT bike with DA 7900

The rode a bike with DA9000, really good, rode it like double tap without realising it was DA, but not willing to go 11 speed just yet (I swap wheels regularly between bikes)

Have Microshift for my project bike
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Dimis » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Dan wrote:Try them all and buy the one you like best.


I did.. and for me SRAM came in first.
I've no bias though, I think they all work fairly well.

Bonus with SRAM - it's lighter, cheaper and simple to use... at least the Red i use is.


FWIW - not a fan of the electric shifting options though Di2 or EPS or Other that SRAM may produce in the future.
Just because you can have electric shifting doesn't mean you should :wink: ;)
Its the same reasoning I drive a manual and am not impressed with paddle shifts.

Mechanical all the way for me thanks...
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:07 am

As a mechanic I get to play with all three, but Shimano is my favourite lot. It may not have the flashy bits of the others, but it just plain bloody works, day after day.

Campag is lovely stuff, and the serviceability is awesome, but I'm not a fan of the ergonomics; the older hoods have a nasty square section which is really uncomfortable, then there's that mouse-ear shifter. It is reachable from the drops, but a bit of a stretch. Shimano's take on the design, used on the older Sora & 2200/2300 entry-level shifters is even worse; it's right up high on the side of the hood, which is perfect for shifting from up there, but it's utterly impossible to reach from below.

SRAM has some good concepts, but the engineering is a pretty major let-down. Dreadful shifting due to poorly ramped & flexy chainrings & front derailleurs, shift levers that routinely fall off, and cassettes that sound like an army of tractors. On the plus side, the levers are by far the mosr comfortable shape, but that's not enough to overcome the many shortcomings.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:27 am

Duck! wrote: Shimano's take on the design, used on the older Sora & 2200/2300 entry-level shifters is even worse; it's right up high on the side of the hood, which is perfect for shifting from up there, but it's utterly impossible to reach from below.


It can be done, I would say utterly impractical rather than impossible. My first road bike had sora and man those shift levers were a pain.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby simonn » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:42 am

Duck! wrote:...Shimano is my favourite lot. It may not have the flashy bits of the others, but it just plain bloody works, day after day.


This is where I disagree and partly* why I went for Campy Veloce** on my FM066SL build.

I also have Veloce on my Van Nicholas, not by choice, but because the bike was a bargain and came with it. In the ~9000km I have done on it over 2 years or so I have have only had to adjust the gears twice (including when I swapped to a compact crankset, so really, only once). This has not been my experience with Shimano. Sora needs adjusting almost daily (I exaggerate, but it does, a lot). Tiagra less regularly and 105 a little less regularly still. I don't know about Ultegra or Dura-Ace as I have never owned a bike with them. This didn't bother me much before I was a parent, but now we have a toddler running around... ...all the time... ...never stops... I would rather spend my "free" time riding than playing with cable tension.

This is of course anecdote with a sample size of one, so is fairly meaningless I guess.

*The other part is so I can share wheels between my two roadies and because it was better value from Ribble (which was the cheapest groupo source I found) than Shimano.

**Bottom of the range Campy, which depending on who you speak to is the same as tiagra, 105 or ultegra :roll: :lol:. Personally think 105 weight, but a little better shifting. Really nowadays everything shifts well when properly setup. It is how long it stays properly setup, maybe possibly how long it takes to wear out/break and weight that changes.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:19 pm

Duck! wrote:
SRAM has some good concepts, but the engineering is a pretty major let-down. Dreadful shifting due to poorly ramped & flexy chainrings & front derailleurs, shift levers that routinely fall off, and cassettes that sound like an army of tractors. On the plus side, the levers are by far the mosr comfortable shape, but that's not enough to overcome the many shortcomings.


I run a sram pg 1050 28-11 cassette and sram chainset on my ultegra 6700 equipped Cervelo. Both ends shift well, the rear is no noisier and picks up gears a touch better than the ultegra 25-11 cassette it replaced. The front is a 39-53 , which no doubt has alot to do with it, and it shifts much better than the 34-50 fsa compact it replaced.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:29 pm

ldrcycles wrote:
Duck! wrote: Shimano's take on the design, used on the older Sora & 2200/2300 entry-level shifters is even worse; it's right up high on the side of the hood, which is perfect for shifting from up there, but it's utterly impossible to reach from below.


It can be done, I would say utterly impractical rather than impossible. My first road bike had sora and man those shift levers were a pain.

You must have bloody long thumbs. I could barely brush the underside of the trigger of mine.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:44 pm

Nah I've actually got fairly short digits, but with a bit of twisting about it could be done. Rubbish though.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Puffy » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:55 pm

Well until, recently I had Sora. All I could afford. I put over 10'000kms on that gruppo without drama other than it finally falling apart of late. I just wore it out! It has been replaced by 9 speed Ultegra.

I digress, I had absolutely no problem with the thumb shifters. I thought they were great.

I see the latest version of sora has lost thumb levers when it inherited last years Tiagra lever design I suppose.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:49 pm

simonn wrote:
Duck! wrote:...Shimano is my favourite lot. It may not have the flashy bits of the others, but it just plain bloody works, day after day.


This is where I disagree and partly* why I went for Campy Veloce** on my FM066SL build.

I also have Veloce on my Van Nicholas, not by choice, but because the bike was a bargain and came with it. In the ~9000km I have done on it over 2 years or so I have have only had to adjust the gears twice (including when I swapped to a compact crankset, so really, only once). This has not been my experience with Shimano. Sora needs adjusting almost daily (I exaggerate, but it does, a lot). Tiagra less regularly and 105 a little less regularly still. I don't know about Ultegra or Dura-Ace as I have never owned a bike with them. This didn't bother me much before I was a parent, but now we have a toddler running around... ...all the time... ...never stops... I would rather spend my "free" time riding than playing with cable tension.

This is of course anecdote with a sample size of one, so is fairly meaningless I guess.

*The other part is so I can share wheels between my two roadies and because it was better value from Ribble (which was the cheapest groupo source I found) than Shimano.

**Bottom of the range Campy, which depending on who you speak to is the same as tiagra, 105 or ultegra :roll: :lol:. Personally think 105 weight, but a little better shifting. Really nowadays everything shifts well when properly setup. It is how long it stays properly setup, maybe possibly how long it takes to wear out/break and weight that changes.

My Sora-equipped commuter hasn't needed adjustment for years, and it gets ridden in all weather, nearly every working day. Sure it's nowhere near as slick as the Ultegra on my other roadie, or SLX/XT (105/Ultegra equvalent) mix on my MTB, but it's just as consistent and reliable as the better components.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby queequeg » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:17 pm

I run SRAM Apex on the commuter, and a mix of Dura-Ace & Ultegra on the road bike.
The shifting on the SRAM Apex FD was woeful. The cage on the FD was far too wide so I was always throwing the chain off the large ring during a shift. The 50/34 crank didn't help as there just isn't a smooth ramp up from small to big.
I switched to a 46/38 crank and a SRAM Rival FD and all my shifting issues are gone. Now, I just hope I don't snap another shift paddle!

In contrast, the Dura-Ace 7801 shifters are simply superb. The lightest flick will see an instant shift to the big ring (Ultegra 6700 53/39 crank), and rear shifts are super smooth. I have never adjusted the shifters on the road bike.

Of course, comparing Apex to Dura-Ace is not fair, but I am not putting SRAM Red on my commuter.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby richbee » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:30 pm

I like my Campagnolo Chorus 11s on my best road bike, and the Chorus 10s on my second road bike ;-)
I started with Shimano back in the 90's and used their RSX 7s groupset for about a year but was never comfortable with the feel of the levers. Got the chance to try a mates bike with Athena 8s and was simply bowled over by how natural it was to use and how slim the hoods were compared to the fat RSX. First chance I got I upgraded first to Mirage 9, then Centaur 10, then Chorus 10 and now Chorus 11. I do still occasionally have a spin on 105 and Ultegra equipped bikes, and even if they are better looking now they've lost the washline feature, I still find the Campagnolo more natural to use and the slim hoods fit my small hands far better than the still fat Shimano hoods.
Never tried SRAM, I'm too old now to learn how to operate a third shifting mechanism...

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Re: Groupsets?

Postby warthog1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:12 pm

richbee wrote: I still find the Campagnolo more natural to use and the slim hoods fit my small hands far better than the still fat Shimano hoods.


I have never ridden campag, but that gives me some useful feedback thanks :) . I have fairly large hands, take an xl glove, and find I like a larger hood. The ultegra 6700 is slightly larger in diameter than the 6600 it replaced and is more comfortable for me for this reason.
+1 on them losing the exposed cables, I always hated them flapping about on the front of the bike, very messy and untidy looking.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Duck! » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:07 pm

warthog1 wrote:+1 on them losing the exposed cables, I always hated them flapping about on the front of the bike, very messy and untidy looking.

But they work oh so much better than hidden cables!
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby rheicel » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:31 pm

I love all Groupsets. Each of them have their own strength and weakness. It is just matter of understanding them and enjoying them. Enjoy riding!

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Re: Groupsets?

Postby ParkertR » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Interesting thread :) I've never used Campy... have always been on Shimano and SRAM. Currently hav Shimano's 6700 and 6770 :) enjoying them both~ Especially the Di2
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:39 pm

Duck! wrote:
warthog1 wrote:+1 on them losing the exposed cables, I always hated them flapping about on the front of the bike, very messy and untidy looking.

But they work oh so much better than hidden cables!

But you might be shifting only a half dozen times a kilomotre where the aero advantage of hidden cables is with you every centimetre of the way :wink:
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby elantra » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:22 pm

Puffy wrote:Well until, recently I had Sora. All I could afford. I put over 10'000kms on that gruppo without drama other than it finally falling apart of late. I just wore it out! It has been replaced by 9 speed Ultegra.

I digress, I had absolutely no problem with the thumb shifters. I thought they were great.

I see the latest version of sora has lost thumb levers when it inherited last years Tiagra lever design I suppose.

Another previous generation Sora fan here.
My 2300 Sora shifts better than the 7700 Dura-ace on the other bike i ride sometimes.
Admittedly i never change gears from the drops.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:31 pm

Duck! wrote:But they work oh so much better than hidden cables!


You are not alone in saying that, but not my experience. Still shifts fine for me, does what it's told and feels like a shorter lever throw on the upshifts. Apparently its not though :?
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Dimis » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:05 pm

richbee wrote:Never tried SRAM, I'm too old now to learn how to operate a third shifting mechanism...


Richbee - you should really try sram. It's shifting is pretty much idiot proof.
Even I can use it intuitively and its now my preferred choice of groupo.
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby queequeg » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:37 pm

richbee wrote:Never tried SRAM, I'm too old now to learn how to operate a third shifting mechanism...


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Re: Groupsets?

Postby munga » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:38 pm

i tried to ride a shimano -equipped bike the other day and i had to leave it in the gear it was in.
i think that says more about me than the groupsets :oops:
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Re: Groupsets?

Postby Dan » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:51 pm

munga wrote:i tried to ride a shimano -equipped bike the other day and i had to leave it in the gear it was in.


Forgot where he parked it, too...
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