CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

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CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Xplora » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:20 pm

3.1.04 It is forbidden to wear non-essential items of clothing or items designed
to influence the performances of a rider such as reducing air resistance or
modifying the body of the rider (compression, stretching, support). Items
of clothing or equipment may be considered essential where weather
conditions make them appropriate for the safety or the health of the rider.
In this case, the nature and texture of the clothing or equipment must be
clearly and solely justified by the need to protect the rider from
bad weather conditions. “Booties” are not allowed to be worn on indoor
velodromes.

Can I get some idea of what nonessential clothing is? AFAIK the only "off limits" gear are those funky Bont Chronos shoes - but where do speedsuits, aero booties and suchlike come in? I'm rather confused. Equally perplexing is why more people don't race in speedsuits, given there are time benefits?

A noob needs to know. :D
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by BNA » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:40 pm

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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:40 pm

By speed suits... I expect you mean skin suits?. Plenty of people race in skin suits.
You can wear pretty much anything you want that you would see on a pro.
But anything like an aero hump on your back, clip on helmet cover, shoe fairing, aerofoil gloves etc will raise eyebrows in certain events.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Duck! » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:02 pm

Xplora wrote:Can I get some idea of what nonessential clothing is? ...but where do .... aero booties and suchlike come in? I'm rather confused. Equally perplexing is why more people don't race in speedsuits, given there are time benefits?

A noob needs to know. :D

As far as booties go, it's pretty clearly laid out in the Rules (quote removed for brevity).... If they're not clearly & identifiably designed to protect against applicable weather conditions, they're not allowed. There's probably a fair bit of boundary-pushing in outdoor events, because there's no way a person's weather-tolerance (or lack of) can be proven, but they're specifically banned for indoor use.

I guess skinsuits pass because technically they're essential in that they provide at least a token amount of modesty.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby vander » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:22 pm

Noone at the olympics/world champs didnt have booties (on the track) from what I saw. So funny saying they are banned.

Here is a video of 8 of them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNpfLyzXRdE
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Ross » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:26 pm

You should be pretty ok wearing whatever in local club races, but they may start enforcing UCI rules in events like club championships and open events. UCI contradicts itself in any case with TT helmets. The whole purpose behind them is for an aero aid.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Xplora » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:25 am

I want to be clear that I am totally ok with aero booties and gloves and skinsuits, I assume I will face jeers of encouragement "hey pretty boy nice suit" but it is hard to work out what is legit. I can only assume that there is a serious comfort issue otherwise pros wouldn't use them except for TTs?
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby jcjordan » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:29 am

Speaking to Luke Durbridge at the TDU this year about his tendency to wear a skin suit in road races he said it was more comfortable than bibs.

So many of the Orica guys wear them that they have been making them with pockets

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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby RonK » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:36 am

Xplora wrote:I want to be clear that I am totally ok with aero booties and gloves and skinsuits, I assume I will face jeers of encouragement "hey pretty boy nice suit" but it is hard to work out what is legit. I can only assume that there is a serious comfort issue otherwise pros wouldn't use them except for TTs?

Well, let me ask - how would you pee on a road race, where would you carry food etc. if wearing a skinsuit?
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:55 am

RonK wrote:
Xplora wrote:I want to be clear that I am totally ok with aero booties and gloves and skinsuits, I assume I will face jeers of encouragement "hey pretty boy nice suit" but it is hard to work out what is legit. I can only assume that there is a serious comfort issue otherwise pros wouldn't use them except for TTs?

Well, let me ask - how would you pee on a road race, where would you carry food etc. if wearing a skinsuit?

Plenty of people wear skinsuits in road races. If you have to stop for a pee in a road race, your race is over. And its a fine for public urination if you go in the bush or on the side of a road. You can slip a muesli bar and a few gels up the leg of you knicks. We have a sag wagon at our club so no need to carry spares.
On the issue of booties, the CNSW people love enforcing that rule. Don't even been seen with a bootie near a velodrome lest you incur the wrath of the comissaires. They even made riders remove their booties before starting the CNSW road hillclimb last year at Bathurst.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby RonK » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:06 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
RonK wrote:
Xplora wrote:I want to be clear that I am totally ok with aero booties and gloves and skinsuits, I assume I will face jeers of encouragement "hey pretty boy nice suit" but it is hard to work out what is legit. I can only assume that there is a serious comfort issue otherwise pros wouldn't use them except for TTs?

Well, let me ask - how would you pee on a road race, where would you carry food etc. if wearing a skinsuit?

Plenty of people wear skinsuits in road races. If you have to stop for a pee in a road race, your race is over. And its a fine for public urination if you go in the bush or on the side of a road. You can slip a muesli bar and a few gels up the leg of you knicks. We have a sag wagon at our club so no need to carry spares.
On the issue of booties, the CNSW people love enforcing that rule. Don't even been seen with a bootie near a velodrome lest you incur the wrath of the comissaires. They even made riders remove their booties before starting the CNSW road hillclimb last year at Bathurst.

The OP was asking why the pros don't use them except for TTs. Watch any world tour race on tv and you will see riders peeing, often without stopping. It would be interesting to see how this could be achieved whilst wearing a skinsuit. Pull up a leg perhaps.

However more and more riders are choosing to wear skinsuits on major races - according to Magnus Backstedt on Eurosport this is mainly on the shorter sprint stages where the riders can get a teammate to carry stuff for them and presumably they can hold their water for the entire stage/race.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Xplora » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:32 pm

So are booties ok or not ok? Bathurst hill climb means road race. I ask because its a lot of money to invest in club kit without permission to wear it lol. Booties at velodrome is out but that is specific. Makes me wonder why there would be booties bans outside the velodrome when it seems that they are legal by implication. One wonders why they would be banned unless SIDI got in their ear. Probably same reason Lazer and Bell had a chat about TT helmets.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:25 pm

Xplora wrote:So are booties ok or not ok? Bathurst hill climb means road race. I ask because its a lot of money to invest in club kit without permission to wear it lol. Booties at velodrome is out but that is specific. Makes me wonder why there would be booties bans outside the velodrome when it seems that they are legal by implication. One wonders why they would be banned unless SIDI got in their ear. Probably same reason Lazer and Bell had a chat about TT helmets.

Booties are supposed to be allowed in road races.
Yes Im guessing the shoe manufacturers have some influence in the 'rule'.

PS Ron, I don't see the OP mention Pros?
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby briztoon » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:05 am

I watch a lot of road racing on Eurosport. A lot of riders take a "nature break" before the peloton drop the hammer to catch the breakaway. Some pull over to side of the road and stop, while others pull out to the side of the peloton and pee on the move. Ask the female pros what they do when they have to go. My guess is, if you're wearing a skin suit and desperately have to go, you do the same thing as female races.

I don't know about shoe covers or booties. They're worn by the pros in cold conditions, and obviously during TT. But they're not worn at any other time during the season, and you would think if there was to be an advantage gained by wearing them, then at least the sprinters would wear them. Obviously there is a need during cold conditions there is a need to keep your extremities worm. Otherwise, seeing as most stages are 150 plus kilometres, one day races usually in excess of 220 kilometres, I would hazard to guess that they probably cause the feet to over heat, and this is the main reason they are not worn. And if over heating is the reason, my guess is TT are short enough not to worry about feet overheating.

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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Xplora » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:20 am

You can't race at any amateur level and have stoppages as part of your gameplan so the nature breaks are not an issue for me :lol: I am not sponsored by my shoes either so it looks like booties are a go. It is strange they don't allow them in the velodrome? Oh well; need to keep training!
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby briztoon » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:11 am

What type of racing do we have at an Amateur level here in Australia? I'm only aware of Criterium racing in here in Brisbane. I can't imagine the need for nature breaks in such a race. A quick google search and there are races that amateurs enter that I can see riders taking a nature break, such as the Cunningham Classic or the Grafton to Inverell Cycle classic.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Xplora » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:51 am

I'm talking club races. Even the longer ones only seem to creep up to 100-110 in Sydney, and I usually just make sure I go before I need to ride. That's only 3 hours in a group... anyways, I think we've got the answer. Skinsuit and booties FTW.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby philip » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:54 pm

Xplora wrote:I'm talking club races. ... Skinsuit and booties FTW.


These must be some pretty serious club races Xplora!
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:12 pm

briztoon wrote:What type of racing do we have at an Amateur level here in Australia? I'm only aware of Criterium racing in here in Brisbane. I can't imagine the need for nature breaks in such a race. A quick google search and there are races that amateurs enter that I can see riders taking a nature break, such as the Cunningham Classic or the Grafton to Inverell Cycle classic.

Well we are used to seeing the Pro peleton in Europe taking their nature breaks, but in Australia its not allowed. a couple of years ago a large bunch in the Melbourne to Warrnambool stopped and went behind a building ... a week later they all got a fine in the mail. My mate stopped with them and didn't even relieve himself but still got a fine. Even at club level, our lady commissaire who is quite high up and officiates at all the national and World events is always on the prowl before races for guys sneaking off around a corner of behind a tree for a last minute pee, she takes a dim view of it.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:18 pm

philip wrote:
Xplora wrote:I'm talking club races. ... Skinsuit and booties FTW.


These must be some pretty serious club races Xplora!

All races are serious Philip. The lower down the grades you go, the more serious they get. You should see the gear on display at a D grade club time trial. Not much point having a $5000 bike and wearing an flappy jersey.
Young DD wears a skinsuit in some races (A grade) but that's more for comfort, he's very tall and the normal road jerseys keep riding up. I don't care what people wear. Its not a fashion parade. On the other end of the scale we had a bloke used to turn up on a steely with stubbies and a tee shirt and win B grade every week. That was pretty cool. Like blowing a way an $80,000 BMW off the lights in your home built Datsun 1600 or RX2 ...
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Xplora » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:06 pm

philip wrote:
Xplora wrote:I'm talking club races. ... Skinsuit and booties FTW.


These must be some pretty serious club races Xplora!

LOL it's nothing to do with being serious or not. I'll probably be racing D grade... I'm simply keeping an old TT jpeg in mind... http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/biggest-bang-for-your-buck-in-time-trial-equipment/

If you don't have the kit yet, the difference between a flash gordon skinnydipper and the club kit is maybe 50 bucks, and you're giving away a LOT of watts - it's going to be something like 10W peak power during a charge at a vague guess. Add the booties, another 5W. I'm just making up numbers, but here is the rub - if I am putting out 400W for the final 2 minutes of the race, and I'm trying to keep up with MUCH stronger sprinters than me, then 50 bucks is a no brainer and could be the marginal gain necessary. The difference between 400W and Aero helmet? No brainer. This is stuff that you have to have, the weird suits aren't actually much more because you need bibs and jersey, the Evade isn't much pricier than the Prevail for example. If you're in the "I just spent 3000 bucks on a bike" class of rider, I think you're a bit silly to not consider the aero stuff. Now - there are good reasons to not do this - not everyone is made of money and a lot of people don't want to embarrass themselves having all the gear and no idea. Plus, cycling really does appear to have a culture that doesn't assume victory every time. If I can win, then I'll do it. If spending 40 bucks on aero booties stops me snapping the bike in frustration after being pipped all the time, then that's happening.

The chart pretty much sums up the reality that bling on the bike is super pricey, and not really guaranteed to give the result you're after. Deep wheels are great, but at 71kgs I've got to be a little careful about trying to run 808s all the time, despite the obvious cool factor LOL You've got to wear the stuff anyway and booties doesn't create a problem in high wind situations. also, 2000 on Zipps vs an extra 100 on aero kit for the same time benefit? :shock:
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby michaelten » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:38 pm

If you are in the wrong position in the final turn those booties ain't going to help you.

In my limited race experience its about position, position, position and a little bit more position.

Ps, when you make your race debut in said skin suit, booties aero helmet etc let me know it should be a good laugh :lol:
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby Xplora » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:49 pm

michaelten wrote:If you are in the wrong position in the final turn those booties ain't going to help you.

In my limited race experience its about position, position, position and a little bit more position.

Ps, when you make your race debut in said skin suit, booties aero helmet etc let me know it should be a good laugh :lol:

"Who's that twit? Wait up... I hope he doesn't start talking about bloody helmet laws or I'm throwing a bottle in his spokes"

:mrgreen: Position is great, but you need to get there first. Check out the TNFPR Strava tomorrow night... there are some very very fast riders out there...
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby vander » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:24 pm

Xplora wrote:"Who's that twit? Wait up... I hope he doesn't start talking about bloody helmet laws or I'm throwing a bottle in his spokes"

:mrgreen: Position is great, but you need to get there first. Check out the TNFPR Strava tomorrow night... there are some very very fast riders out there...


Seriously please start racing before continuing with all these posts and you will realise how redundant all what you said will be, trust me I used to think like you, I used to do little things for every race to get it right such as caffeine = pretty big boost (theoretically) so I would drink a red bull before racing. You quickly realise that it does much matter those marginal gains are not the difference in low level races.

Races are hardly ever won by 1 bike length or half a bike length they are usually won by 2-3 bike lengths beyond the gains of a helmet or booties. Most races come down to a sprint in the lower grades, getting to the sprint fresh is important, but in a pack booties wont do much, its about the legs. For example on Sun I did a TT, the guy with the fastest time, no booties (not even a TT helmet, though he did have a bike) still managed around 30seconds outside the course record. Booties and helmet would of given him an improvement but he beat everyone else because he was stronger. Which is what really matters.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:32 pm

No being able to pee in all that free space you have :shock: ... peeing in France is a free for all. Depends a lot on the country... when in Morocco they were very strict.
Still haven't got round to wearing a skin suit... yesterday was probably a good day to try but pinning a number on a skin suit well is a two man job :lol: . Bootie covers in TT's but not in racing at the mo, they get trashed so easily. Gloves ... gloves ain't aero bro ... never wear them.
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Re: CA/UCI clothing rules interpretation?

Postby thearthurdog » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:09 pm

briztoon wrote:What type of racing do we have at an Amateur level here in Australia? I'm only aware of Criterium racing in here in Brisbane. I can't imagine the need for nature breaks in such a race. A quick google search and there are races that amateurs enter that I can see riders taking a nature break, such as the Cunningham Classic or the Grafton to Inverell Cycle classic.

I had a nature break in the Cunningham Classic this year with the eventual winner !
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