Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby biker jk » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:03 pm

warthog1 wrote:That's true and there's only 2 mm width difference supposedly. If you can feel a difference in rolling resistance/ride then you should be able to feel a difference in responsiveness. Given the increase in weight is slightly more in percentage terms than the quoted difference in size.


The Pro Teams have moved to wider tyres so it can't be hurting performance.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/news/giro-tech-rise-of-the-25c-tire_218011
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by BNA » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:31 pm

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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:31 pm

That is one article quoting the use of 25c tubulars. I remember last year or the year before there were articles espousing the virtues of clinchers. Tony Martin was said to be running them on his tt bike. Not anymore, he's on tubulars and given they are on Zipps that are designed around 23mm tyres ;-,
In general, our wheels are optimized around 23mm tires, which means that 21mm tires usually run about equal, maybe a fraction of a watt faster, but don’t change the behavior of the wheel. Moving to a 25mm adds drag, but can also change the stall behavior of the wheel. And by the time you are at 27mm, you have something that behaves quite differently,
-probably 23 mm in width.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/tech-faq-again-bigger-tires-roll-faster_209888

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/pro-bike-tony-martins-specialized-shiv-tt-1/288141

A couple of riders for Drapac where I live, Huon Genesis and visiting Rapha riders. They all race on 22-23mm tubulars and train on 23mm clinchers.

In any event the difference is FA, I'm just giving my experience, that I don't see what all the fuss was about and prefer narrower.
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby biker jk » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:03 pm

warthog1 wrote:That is one article quoting the use of 25c tubulars. I remember last year or the year before there were articles espousing the virtues of clinchers. Tony Martin was said to be running them on his tt bike. Not anymore, he's on tubulars and given they are on Zipps that are designed around 23mm tyres ;-,
In general, our wheels are optimized around 23mm tires, which means that 21mm tires usually run about equal, maybe a fraction of a watt faster, but don’t change the behavior of the wheel. Moving to a 25mm adds drag, but can also change the stall behavior of the wheel. And by the time you are at 27mm, you have something that behaves quite differently,
-probably 23 mm in width.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/tech-faq-again-bigger-tires-roll-faster_209888

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/pro-bike-tony-martins-specialized-shiv-tt-1/288141

A couple of riders for Drapac where I live, Huon Genesis and visiting Rapha riders. They all race on 22-23mm tubulars and train on 23mm clinchers.

In any event the difference is FA, I'm just giving my experience, that I don't see what all the fuss was about and prefer narrower.


That's because the Zipp rim is 28.5mm wide so the 23mm tyre on it measures a lot more than 23mm wide when on the rim. In essence, drag is reduced because the tyre's side profile is not like a light bulb (think 23mm tyre on a standard 19mm rim). So if you have 19mm rims then yes the lower rolling resistance of moving to a 25mm wide tyre could be more than offset by increased drag. The equation changes with the new wider rims.
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby lobstermash » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:04 pm

For me the fuss is more about comfort. And maybe, just maybe, a little extra speed (although as I noted earlier, I haven't tried 23mm GPs) is a bonus.
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Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:48 pm

biker jk wrote:
That's because the Zipp rim is 28.5mm wide so the 23mm tyre on it measures a lot more than 23mm wide when on the rim. In essence, drag is reduced because the tyre's side profile is not like a light bulb (think 23mm tyre on a standard 19mm rim). So if you have 19mm rims then yes the lower rolling resistance of moving to a 25mm wide tyre could be more than offset by increased drag. The equation changes with the new wider rims.


The zipp is a new wider rim and they are saying 23mm is faster on it :?
In any case it's not much just as the change in comfort is not much.
I haven't tried wide clincher rims though I don't see how such a small percentage increase in size can be such a revelation in terms of ride comfort and grip.
It was more than offset by the less snappy feel on my narrower rims.
Maybe one day I'll be as rich as you blokes and be able to try wide rims out. I reckon by then they'll be back to marketing narrow rims as lighter and a revelation in speed. :P
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:53 pm

biker jk wrote:That's because the Zipp rim is 28.5mm wide so the 23mm tyre on it measures a lot more than 23mm wide when on the rim. In essence, drag is reduced because the tyre's side profile is not like a light bulb (think 23mm tyre on a standard 19mm rim). So if you have 19mm rims then yes the lower rolling resistance of moving to a 25mm wide tyre could be more than offset by increased drag. The equation changes with the new wider rims.


it's not a lot more. having tried tyres on 15, 17, 19 and 21mm internal width rims, the difference decreased as the rims got wider. pulling the bead of the tyre out only increased the carcass so much, you just end up with a more aero wheel/tyre with a higher volume as per the image below.
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby biker jk » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:19 pm

mitchy_ wrote:
biker jk wrote:That's because the Zipp rim is 28.5mm wide so the 23mm tyre on it measures a lot more than 23mm wide when on the rim. In essence, drag is reduced because the tyre's side profile is not like a light bulb (think 23mm tyre on a standard 19mm rim). So if you have 19mm rims then yes the lower rolling resistance of moving to a 25mm wide tyre could be more than offset by increased drag. The equation changes with the new wider rims.


it's not a lot more. having tried tyres on 15, 17, 19 and 21mm internal width rims, the difference decreased as the rims got wider. pulling the bead of the tyre out only increased the carcass so much, you just end up with a more aero wheel/tyre with a higher volume as per the image below.


Well on my 17mm internal width rims a 23mm tyre measures 25mm across. So on the Zipp 18mm internal width rims a 23mm could measure 26mm wide. The key point (which you make) is that you end up with a more aero wheel/tyre at higher volume (so you could run lower pressure to provide more comfort on non-billiard table smooth surfaces).
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:23 pm

biker jk wrote:
mitchy_ wrote:
biker jk wrote:That's because the Zipp rim is 28.5mm wide so the 23mm tyre on it measures a lot more than 23mm wide when on the rim. In essence, drag is reduced because the tyre's side profile is not like a light bulb (think 23mm tyre on a standard 19mm rim). So if you have 19mm rims then yes the lower rolling resistance of moving to a 25mm wide tyre could be more than offset by increased drag. The equation changes with the new wider rims.


it's not a lot more. having tried tyres on 15, 17, 19 and 21mm internal width rims, the difference decreased as the rims got wider. pulling the bead of the tyre out only increased the carcass so much, you just end up with a more aero wheel/tyre with a higher volume as per the image below.


Well on my 17mm internal width rims a 23mm tyre measures 25mm across. So on the Zipp 18mm internal width rims a 23mm could measure 26mm wide. The key point (which you make) is that you end up with a more aero wheel/tyre at higher volume (so you could run lower pressure to provide more comfort on non-billiard table smooth surfaces).


yep! tyres wildly vary too. my supposed 28mm tyres measured in at about 27mm on a 19mm internal width rim, and something like 25.4 on a 15mm width rim!
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby rodneycc » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:26 pm

I think riders weight has a lot to do with the 23 vs 25 debate. At 100kgs I found with the 23s my rims and spokes were at risk and since moving to 25s on both my road bikes it just feels a more solid ride. But I suspect if you are a 70kg or 80kg rider that you might not notice much difference.

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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:03 pm

:mrgreen:
GeoffInBrisbane wrote:
GeoffInBrisbane wrote:Just checked my kms- I now have 6400km on my 23mm GP4000S'. Rear getting low but not totally knackered. Still have only had that one puncture in the first week, none since. Pleased with that, considering the grip they give. Will get a new one soonish and put the old front on the back.


7200km and counting. Wonder how far I can go? Mad life for a rear tyre with that amount of grip.


8700km and still going. I HAVE ordered another one so it is ready when the time comes, but it ain't dead yet!
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby fil_farina » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:52 pm

After the week I've had on Rubino Pro's I've ordered a set of GP4000s in 25c .....


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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby gabrielle260 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:24 pm

fil_farina wrote:After the week I've had on Rubino Pro's I've ordered a set of GP4000s in 25c .....


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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby lannes » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:37 pm

Tufo elite jet <160 tubular
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:30 pm

My attempt to get 10,000km out of a GP4000S mounted on the back wheel failed today:

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9853km down, 147km to go...and BANG! :lol:

Front tyre (which has also done 9853km but shows virtually no wear) now rotated to back wheel, new GP4000S on the front. I'll try again... :lol:
Last edited by GeoffInBrisbane on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Road tyre's - What's your rubber of choice?

Postby Phil » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:33 pm

Schwalbe Ones. Had em for a week and a bit (300kms), faster than Vittoria Open Corsas, but seem more durable based on the glass I have gone though. Far more compliant sidewall than the Conti GP4000S which feel very hard and transmit every jolt.

See how they hold up over the next couple of thousand kms.
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