Tyre size 23 v 25

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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby cage » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:20 pm

KL. wrote:
jacks1071 wrote: ... wide rim is heavier than a narrower rim all else being equal.

There are wide 23mm clincher rims that weigh less than 400gms such as the Velocity A23, Stans A340, HED C2, etc, and these rims/wheelsets have been around for a while ...

thanks KL :)


Unfortunately, the Velocity A23 is 450g & the HED C2 is between 460g & 475g (depending on which site you look at). The Alpha 340 is 385g but if your on the heavy side, I'd suggest going for the Alpha 400 which is 425g.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:12 pm

KL. wrote:
jacks1071 wrote: ... wide rim is heavier than a narrower rim all else being equal.

There are wide 23mm clincher rims that weigh less than 400gms such as the Velocity A23, Stans A340, HED C2, etc, and these rims/wheelsets have been around for a while ...

thanks KL :)


Doesn't matter how light you can get a wide rim, its still not going to be as light as a more narrow rim simply because there is less material in a narrower rim.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby KL. » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:03 am

jacks1071 wrote:
KL. wrote:
jacks1071 wrote: ... wide rim is heavier than a narrower rim all else being equal.

There are wide 23mm clincher rims that weigh less than 400gms such as the Velocity A23, Stans A340, HED C2, etc, and these rims/wheelsets have been around for a while ...

thanks KL :)


Doesn't matter how light you can get a wide rim, its still not going to be as light as a more narrow rim simply because there is less material in a narrower rim.


Ok, it's good that wide rims (23/24/25mm) will now be staying around :)

Thank you to HED and Velocity (the others are following) for their fore thought, re wider rims :)

I guess we shall see in the future how light these rims shall become... wider, aero, and lightish sounds good to me :)

thanks KL :)
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:10 pm

Rode for the first time on 25's F+R. Been riding 25R and 23F.
Wow it was nice and comfy. Looking forward to my wider rims arriving early Jan.
Currently 96kg and 188cm.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby KL. » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:50 pm

Wakatuki wrote:Rode for the first time on 25's F+R. Been riding 25R and 23F.
Wow it was nice and comfy. Looking forward to my wider rims arriving early Jan.
Currently 96kg and 188cm.

Hi Wakatuki, yes, the little bit of extra rim weight or tyre weight doesn't matter on the flats (the comfort and aero does matter, especially as you are 96kg), just on the climbs (and then it depends on the duration and inclination of the climb and your power output and fitness) and crit sharp corners where alot of quick acceleration happens :)

Remember, with the wider rims that the inner width dimension is important :)

thanks KL :)
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:15 am

KL.
You seem better knowledged than I on wheels! Can I seek your input?
I live in the Sunshine Coast hinterland, I really can only afford one set of wheels so, general purpose is needed.
My regular rides are
2x 70k mainly flat coastal bunches at 31kph avg and rising!
1x 50k recovery ride with the wife on undulating terrain and if time permits a couple of Montville Hill climbs on the off days!
Roads in my surrounding area are coarse and often slightly broken up (should have bought a CX :roll: ) my current R501's (standard with the Foil 40) I can flex really easily, I often have to open the brake calipers if I know of a small pinch approaching, can't always do that in bunch rides. I have also managed to dent the alloy rim on them after hitting a deteriated road surface at 70 ish kph destroying tyre and tube. I have had the wheel straigtened, but the rim I have been advised not to try and bend back any further. These are the wheels I am looking at American Classic Hurricanes rated well by Clydsdale riders and websites reviewing them. I have no doubt my weight loss will improve my climb time more along with my continued riding.
My body size will be capped at about 88kg I think, I am big framed too.
A bit of redirection from tyres sizes I know, but the reason for the impending wheel swap is fuelled by the love of the 25's. Oh, and every 1/2 kg helps :wink:
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby KL. » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:36 pm

Hi Wakatuki, the wheelsets specs read well, tubeless ready, and the rims are 400gms, which is a good weight for a 22.3mm wide x 24mm deep rim (18.1mm inner width is very good for a 23/25mm tyre or even a 28mm tyre). It appears that you have lost 8kgs in weight, which is a good effort :)

Have a look at the following ... http://www.bikeradar.com/au/gear/category/components/wheel-sets/product/review-american-classic-hurricane-wheelset-10-35761/... read the User Comments, re the rear hub issues :)

Riding upto to Montville from Palmwoods is a good effort, whether that is by the Razorback or the main climb ... good effort and good for training and descending :)

thanks KL :)
Last edited by KL. on Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:40 pm

Thanks for the input, I have 8kg to loose. to get me to 88kg Not far :)
I was on Sunday 20th October 99.1kg so have lost 3kg since then, and not really been that good or controlled on the off days, I have been gaining a bit of upper body muscle too.
But yes when I get to 88kg I will be VERY happy plus the 7kg bike still makes me a borderline Clydsdale, not a tag I am unashamed of...
I say capped at 88kg, but I see someone at that point for some real measurements and with proper data would come proper results... hopefully.
Thanks again for the info, wheels should be here early Jan to try.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby KL. » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:25 am

Hi Wakatuki, let us know about how 23mm or 25mm tyres go with these wheels and keep an eye on the rear hub issues mentioned in the User Comments :)

thanks KL :)
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Fletch » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:29 pm

Well today I made the jump after some tearing a 1cm gash in the rear Specialized 23mm Turbo elite with Blackbelt. Have been running these F&R for a while now.

Anyway I grabbed a pair of Specialized Roubaix 23/25 Armidillo which will be fitted tonight. at 305 gr I guess they are a bit heavy, however am not concerned with weight or aero abilities, hopefully they will be a bit more comfortable and will withstand the rough and debris riddled roads I ride on.

Will report on how they go after a few rides
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Wakatuki » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:12 am

Fletch...... NOOOOOOOO
I had one of those on the rear. It has been removed pretty quickly. Every time I went above 100psi it would cause issue and blow the tube. Not only that but the tube would push the tyre off the rim, a double whammy. The last ride on that tyre saw me blow 3 fresh tubes. (Riding in a bunch and borrowing!) I ended up riding back to the car standing up weight over the front with about 30psi in the rear, it's all it would hold before forcing the tyre off the rim. This was my experience, I hope yours is different.
I am on 4000s black chilli 25's the wife on 23's (lightweight to me!) been superb. Not one flat or issue in months.
If you have not fitted based on my experience I would return. Despite the rubber left on mine I binned it, I was that annoyed.
If they are on hopefully your experience will be different.
Good luck and carry tubes and a pump, I had to borrow co2 too!
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Fletch » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:04 pm

Well just knocked out 76km around the Bellarine on the usual roads i ride plus a cpuple of new ones. Very happy with the new tyres, they are so comfortable and no slower, bike actually feels a bit more lively.

Wakatuki, not sure what rims you are running but they went onto my Mavic Krysium elite's fine, had to push to get the last bit over the rim, running 110psi F&R
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Wakatuki » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:25 pm

Excellent, glad they are fine.
Running shimano r501. The tyre felt loose on install by comparison to the gp4000s.
Bad one, maybe.
Yep it's weird all the rubbish about resistance, speed etc my bikes never felt better. And strava says it's quicker too, my arse agrees with the comfort bit :)
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Fletch » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:07 pm

Not going back to 23mm
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Dave R32 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:10 pm

KL. wrote:There are wide 23mm clincher rims that weigh less than 400gms such as the Velocity A23, Stans A340, HED C2, etc, and these rims/wheelsets have been around for a while ...

thanks KL :)


Not sure which A23 rims you have weighed but 450grams is more like it. http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/a23-622

I have run GP4000 23c and GP4000 25c on the same wheelset and I much prefer the 25C. The reduction in pressure (in my case 100psi down to 90) makes the ride far more comfortable on rough roads. The biggest issue for me is that I cannot fit 25c tyres under the rear brake caliper on my CAAD10 :-( which is the bike which would really benefit from them.

Also be aware the sizing actually varies considerably from brand to brand Michelin Pro Race 4 25c are quite a bit larger than the Conti !

Cheers
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby macca33 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:42 pm

Dave R32 wrote:
KL. wrote:There are wide 23mm clincher rims that weigh less than 400gms such as the Velocity A23, Stans A340, HED C2, etc, and these rims/wheelsets have been around for a while ...

thanks KL :)


Not sure which A23 rims you have weighed but 450grams is more like it. http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/a23-622

I have run GP4000 23c and GP4000 25c on the same wheelset and I much prefer the 25C. The reduction in pressure (in my case 100psi down to 90) makes the ride far more comfortable on rough roads. The biggest issue for me is that I cannot fit 25c tyres under the rear brake caliper on my CAAD10 :-( which is the bike which would really benefit from them.

Also be aware the sizing actually varies considerably from brand to brand Michelin Pro Race 4 25c are quite a bit larger than the Conti !

Cheers
Dave.


Dave, 25mm GP4000s definitely fit under the calipers Ult6700 & DA7800 on a CAAD10 - in case you hadn't yet tried it.

cheers
'dale CAAD10 Berzerker Ult6800 & CAAD10 Team Ult6800

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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby mitchy_ » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:53 pm

Dave R32 wrote:
KL. wrote:Also be aware the sizing actually varies considerably from brand to brand Michelin Pro Race 4 25c are quite a bit larger than the Conti !

Cheers
Dave.


indeed. 28c detonators i have come in around 26mm on a 17mm internal width (23 external) rim. even on a wider 19mm internal (25 external) they are still only around 27mm.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Dave R32 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:02 pm

macca33 wrote:
Dave, 25mm GP4000s definitely fit under the calipers Ult6700 & DA7800 on a CAAD10 - in case you hadn't yet tried it.

cheers


Unfortunately I run with Sram Force on my CAAD10 and therefore I have about 1mm clearance, which is too close for comfort for me. If i ran Shimano I would be fine, as you say, as the caliper arches a lot more than the Force.

Cheers
Dave.

PS: I am looking for a decent quality 24c tyre....must be something out there !
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:00 pm

Just discovered that my 25's have caused some rubbing on the upper arch of the front fork! (Conti) a conversation with the guy in the shop also raised that the michelin are a BIG 25, another local rider has to run 25 rear 23 front with Michelin. We both ride Scott Foil.
For help with the brake clearance I ride Shimano 105 5700, he rides Dura Ace 9000, the git ;)

In other news, just had the Hurricanes fitted and the tyres are indeed rounder, and the bike lighter, don't think that's to do with the tyres! Can't wait to get a ride in. Hopefully Sunday.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby KL. » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:28 pm

Dave R32 wrote: ... I am looking for a decent quality 24c tyre....must be something out there !


Hi Dave R32, the Conti Force is 24mm ...

thanks KL :)
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Wakatuki » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:14 am

First proper ride on the new wheels. Well the tyre still rubs, I could not stand up and climb I had to spin, spin, spin... Very annoying as they were not hills just pinches. Brake calipers were wound out fully so it was not brake rub.
In a way I am kind of happy as the mystery noise is hopefully no longer a mystery! Leaving the 25 on the rear switching back to GP4000s 23 on the front.
Scott Foil..... 25's front, nope, never gave it a thought. 25's on the rear are clear but close. Based on Conti Gp4000s.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Roub » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:26 am

Having moved to Roval CLX40'swith a wider rim profile and running 24's (Specialized turbo) It is much nicer to ride than the narrower Fulcrums I came off.

Also the benefit of wider internal rim profile as opposed to just whacking on wider tyres is the fact the sidewalls are better supported and more responsive
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby biker jk » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:40 am

Roub wrote:Having moved to Roval CLX40'swith a wider rim profile and running 24's (Specialized turbo) It is much nicer to ride than the narrower Fulcrums I came off.

Also the benefit of wider internal rim profile as opposed to just whacking on wider tyres is the fact the sidewalls are better supported and more responsive


Yes, that was my experience with wider rims. You can also run lower tyre pressure (by 10-15psi) to achieve a better ride on rough roads.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Dave R32 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:43 am

Roub, would you mind measuring the width at the widest point of the Specialized turbo please. These may fit my CAAD10 but I would like to be more confident before I drop the coin on a set.

Conti GP4000 25c (AT) 95psi are just under 28mm.

Cheers
Dave.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25

Postby Roub » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:52 pm

Dave R32 wrote:Roub, would you mind measuring the width at the widest point of the Specialized turbo please. These may fit my CAAD10 but I would like to be more confident before I drop the coin on a set.

Conti GP4000 25c (AT) 95psi are just under 28mm.

Cheers
Dave.

My verniers say 26mm wide - and these are on 24mm (external) Roval CLX40's
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