CX bike on a road training ride

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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:51 pm

Tonight I joined the Alpine Tour de Suburbs. I fell back during one of the earlier climbs, hung on then got dropped just before Manningham Rd. Almost caught up to the bunch and Williamsons Rd, then the lights went a full cycle without a right arrow as no car pulled up behind me. As I descended Williamsons, the lights at Lynwood went red, so I checked the route as best I could and took Lynwood, hoping to turn right onto High St and reach everyone. Climbing up Lynnwood I saw one cyclist go past, then two or three more. I made the turn and rejoined the group for the briefest of brief rest stops, where we started moving again before I could even unclip. Down Manningham and I left the group in Heidelberg, as that's home.

I figure that since I rode from Heidelberg to the start, I did the full route anyway :P

Average speed for the ride was 29.5 km/h :)
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by BNA » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:52 pm

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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:52 pm

queequeg wrote:The weight is good training :-) However, I have managed a 40.8km/h avg over a 10km segment of my daily commute, and that is with SMPs, mudguards, rack & panniers, sporting a 48t big ring. ! I am yet to manage that kind of pace on my unburdened dedicated road bike!


That must be one loooong hil!! :P
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby queequeg » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:06 pm

nezumi wrote:
queequeg wrote:The weight is good training :-) However, I have managed a 40.8km/h avg over a 10km segment of my daily commute, and that is with SMPs, mudguards, rack & panniers, sporting a 48t big ring. ! I am yet to manage that kind of pace on my unburdened dedicated road bike!


That must be one loooong hil!! :P


Hehe, it is actually the M2 in Sydney and is mostly flat (100m of climbing over 10km). It is the only segment where there are no traffic lights, just a few crossings of on and off ramps.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:32 pm

I have one section of my regular commute where I hit over 40, but it is barely 700m long, and comes with a nice rolling start courtesy of a good hill.

That said, I've been doing this commuting caper since September now, and have gone from 21km/h average to 25km/h average on my mixed shared path and road ride.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby boss » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:18 am

I find that between my Roadie and CX bike, I lose about 3kmph for the same power.

When you're riding by yourself, that's OK. But when the pace is being dictated to you, scraping up the extra kmph is hard work and can get really frustrating if you're getting spat out the back because of it.

However it's good training if you can keep your spirits up. I still prefer to ride the roadie in group work and hard efforts. CX bike for CX, wet commuting and base miles.

Roadie is about 7.5kg and 23-25mm (whatever's on special) GP4000s, CX bike is somewhere around 9kg and 33mm gatorskins... Next set of tyres on the CX bike will be 28mm in order to reign the rolling resistance in.

And FWIW when I run 32mm knobblies, the loss is somewhere around 5-6kmph. Not as bad as a mountainbike but getting close.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby queequeg » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:26 am

I find about the same 3 to 5km/h difference in avg speed between my CX and my roadie, but I also find that when I am on my CX bike in a tailwind, the pannier bags give me a bigger push :-)
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby cyclotaur » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:03 am

I only have a 10+yo alu roadie, which I only ride occasionally, and my alu CX bike which I ride 95% of the time, swapping between 3 different wheelsets depending on the ride.

My Strava PRs are all over the place, with some of the Beach Rd ones going to the CX bike and a few climbs to the slightly heavier roadie. Though I must say if I go to the trouble of swapping a 9-speed cassette onto my lightest wheels and fitting them to the old roadie it becomes quite the road-rocket with it's generally taller gearing. It's great fun swapping combos around for different rides. :wink:

I think a lot of road riders would benefit from having a CX bike to train on and vary their riding. You really notice the difference when you jump back on a lighter racier road bike.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:21 am

I just weighed the bike as I rode it yesterday, including lights and phone-as-computer (that stem/headset cap mounted thingy) - 13Kgs all up.

I'm at about 84Kg myself at present and looking to lose at least ten of those, so if I keep the same power for ~15Kgs less (me + bike) I will be laughing. :)

That said, i can imagine I will still hit out on the CX bike on some days, just to have a crack and add some resistance to the ride.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby boss » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:33 am

cyclotaur wrote:I only have a 10+yo alu roadie, which I only ride occasionally, and my alu CX bike which I ride 95% of the time, swapping between 3 different wheelsets depending on the ride.

My Strava PRs are all over the place, with some of the Beach Rd ones going to the CX bike and a few climbs to the slightly heavier roadie. Though I must say if I go to the trouble of swapping a 9-speed cassette onto my lightest wheels and fitting them to the old roadie it becomes quite the road-rocket with it's generally taller gearing. It's great fun swapping combos around for different rides. :wink:

I think a lot of road riders would benefit from having a CX bike to train on and vary their riding. You really notice the difference when you jump back on a lighter racier road bike.


Nothing wrong with riding a variety of bikes, but you'd probably get a better training benefit (in terms of increasing your power i.e. getting faster) but just being more structured in your training.

That said I do acknowledge a slower/heavier bike will force you to put more power out for a given piece of road... a light bike might allow you to climb 3km 5% hill in 10 mins at 250w. A heavier bike might make you do the same hill for 12 mins at 250w.

Which is a good thing.

If you end up riding the hill at the same intensity for the same period of time.

Too many question marks for me, easier to just go out on the roadie and thrash on that. When I want to chill out I ride a slower bike and ride it slowly.

If i had a power meter on each bike I might be more open to riding hard on the cross bike... but I don't... so I'm not... haha!
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby cyclotaur » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:49 am

boss wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:....
I think a lot of road riders would benefit from having a CX bike to train on and vary their riding. You really notice the difference when you jump back on a lighter racier road bike.


Nothing wrong with riding a variety of bikes, but you'd probably get a better training benefit (in terms of increasing your power i.e. getting faster) but just being more structured in your training. ...


Ah yes ... structured training. Like 'repeats', 'intervals' and power meters etc - OK if you're into it I suppose. :lol:

I guess my perspective is more recreational than competitive, but part of that is being able to ride respectably in those slightly more 'structured' recreational settings like weekend rides or events like AAC, ATB etc. I actually do all that on the CX and am generally satisfied with my efforts, though I know I would benefit in longer event rides from riding a lighter, faster road bike ... if I had one ! :wink:
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:50 am

Conti GP4000s bought and now in place on my Mavic SpeedCity spare wheelset.

I'll still have to strip off the pannier rack and possibly get a saddlebag to hold a tube and multi-tool, but otherwise it should be a reasonable training rig until I can get a Scultura. :D
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:15 am

nezumi wrote:Conti GP4000s bought and now in place on my Mavic SpeedCity spare wheelset.

I'll still have to strip off the pannier rack and possibly get a saddlebag to hold a tube and multi-tool, but otherwise it should be a reasonable training rig until I can get a Scultura. :D

Jersey pockets (plus levers and CO2/mini-pump).
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby boss » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:35 pm

cyclotaur wrote:
boss wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:....
I think a lot of road riders would benefit from having a CX bike to train on and vary their riding. You really notice the difference when you jump back on a lighter racier road bike.


Nothing wrong with riding a variety of bikes, but you'd probably get a better training benefit (in terms of increasing your power i.e. getting faster) but just being more structured in your training. ...


Ah yes ... structured training. Like 'repeats', 'intervals' and power meters etc - OK if you're into it I suppose. :lol:

I guess my perspective is more recreational than competitive, but part of that is being able to ride respectably in those slightly more 'structured' recreational settings like weekend rides or events like AAC, ATB etc. I actually do all that on the CX and am generally satisfied with my efforts, though I know I would benefit in longer event rides from riding a lighter, faster road bike ... if I had one ! :wink:


If you can keep up with your current setup, that's all that matters.

I've just had experiences on my cx/commuter bike where I get dropped in group rides (or am working considerably harder than the group to stay on) and it can be demoralising if you're not in the mood for a hard ride!
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:49 pm

boss wrote:If you can keep up with your current setup, that's all that matters.

I've just had experiences on my cx/commuter bike where I get dropped in group rides (or am working considerably harder than the group to stay on) and it can be demoralising if you're not in the mood for a hard ride!


I'll admit, it wasn't easy on the Alpine Tour de Burbs ride, but I managed to stay with the group for most of the ride, and when I was dropped I managed to regroup with them after a shortcut. Hopefully changing the tyres should make this an even easier proposition and I will manage to keep up for longer.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:10 pm

Going to be doing a few cobbles this year... CX bike might get a bit of action in Summer in 2014 :D , just got to get some fat arse 28mm tyres :lol: .
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:28 pm

I hit the Yarra Boulevard this afternoon. first time riding it proper and Northbound only, but I made it fraom Walmer St to Guide Doogs in 13:23 (AT) average of 30Km/h.

This was with the SMP tyres, pannier rack and trunk bag.

I'm going to have another shot at the Peak Cycles Eltham ride on Wednesday, setting out a bit earlier than they normally would and using the new Conti rubber.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby trailgumby » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:04 pm

cyclotaur wrote:
nezumi wrote:Conti GP4000s bought and now in place on my Mavic SpeedCity spare wheelset.

I'll still have to strip off the pannier rack and possibly get a saddlebag to hold a tube and multi-tool, but otherwise it should be a reasonable training rig until I can get a Scultura. :D

Jersey pockets (plus levers and CO2/mini-pump).


+1. It's in The Rules. :D

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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:50 pm

trailgumby wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:
nezumi wrote:Conti GP4000s bought and now in place on my Mavic SpeedCity spare wheelset.

I'll still have to strip off the pannier rack and possibly get a saddlebag to hold a tube and multi-tool, but otherwise it should be a reasonable training rig until I can get a Scultura. :D

Jersey pockets (plus levers and CO2/mini-pump).


+1. It's in The Rules. :D


I am familiar with The Rules - whether or not I hold to them is another matter. :P

My multi-tool is a bulky b*tard, and as such not the most pleasant thing to carry in a pocket with a pump and tube.

On the plus side, it has levers incorporated into it. (Essentially this, but older)
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby cyclotaur » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:29 pm

I bought a multi-tool once, carted it around for months and never used it.

All I carry is 3 small Allen keys, levers, and tube, all in a tool bottle, and a small pump (on the frame). One bidon.

Food, phone, rain jacket (if reqd), id/$10 note etc in Jersey pockets.

I take a second tube, and more food, if I'm heading out to moe remote areas.


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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby nezumi » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:25 pm

So, I just weighed the front wheels from each wheelset.

The SMPs on the factory AlexRims weigh 2.2Kg
The Mavic SpeedCity rims with Conti GP4000s on them weigh 1.4Kg.

:D
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby Hugor » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:50 am

A few posters above have stated they lose 3-5 km/hr for equivalent power on their cx.
Why do you think this is? Is it just the slight increase in overall bike weight or the aero effect?
I fail to see why a cx bike with a high end road wheel set would be any slower than a dedicated road bike.

I'm a clyde and fairly new to the road scene.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:36 am

Hugor wrote:A few posters above have stated they lose 3-5 km/hr for equivalent power on their cx.
Why do you think this is? Is it just the slight increase in overall bike weight or the aero effect?
I fail to see why a cx bike with a high end road wheel set would be any slower than a dedicated road bike.

I'm a clyde and fairly new to the road scene.
After melting a few wheelsets using calipers I'm moving to discs with my next purchase before I kill myself. My favourite disc bikes are all crossers.


Ive only used a CX bike a couple of times. Both where on road group rides and I noticed no difference. I manage to keep up fine even on a ride up to mt Nebo in Brissie.
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CX bike on a road training ride

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:24 am

singlespeedscott wrote:Ive only used a CX bike a couple of times. Both where on road group rides and I noticed no difference. I manage to keep up fine even on a ride up to mt Nebo in Brissie.

Probably depends on the ride and the riders to some extent ....


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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby simonn » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:32 pm

Hugor wrote:A few posters above have stated they lose 3-5 km/hr for equivalent power on their cx.
Why do you think this is? Is it just the slight increase in overall bike weight or the aero effect?
I fail to see why a cx bike with a high end road wheel set would be any slower than a dedicated road bike.


Probably a combination of everything, particularly the heavier wheels. Sure, I could use a high end road wheelset, but what's the point? I'd just ride my roadie instead :).

If you can keep up with a group ride on a ladies bike with flowers in the front basket, that's really cool, but you are probably riding with the wrong group (if you are riding to become a better/stronger/faster rider). Same if you are riding a CX. :). However, if you only own a CX, you do not have the choice to ride a roadie.

Just because they look a little like road bikes, doesn't make them so.
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Re: CX bike on a road training ride

Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:37 pm

simonn wrote:
Hugor wrote:A few posters above have stated they lose 3-5 km/hr for equivalent power on their cx.
Why do you think this is? Is it just the slight increase in overall bike weight or the aero effect?
I fail to see why a cx bike with a high end road wheel set would be any slower than a dedicated road bike.


Probably a combination of everything, particularly the heavier wheels. Sure, I could use a high end road wheelset, but what's the point? I'd just ride my roadie instead :).

If you can keep up with a group ride on a ladies bike with flowers in the front basket, that's really cool, but you are probably riding with the wrong group (if you are riding to become a better/stronger/faster rider). Same if you are riding a CX. :). However, if you only own a CX, you do not have the choice to ride a roadie.

Just because they look a little like road bikes, doesn't make them so.


by your logic, wouldn't riding a CX bike and being able to keep up with roadies mean that you are becoming a better/stronger/faster rider?
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