Kew Boulie Time?

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Kew Boulie Time?

Postby zill » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:18 pm

Hi all,

I know Kew Boulie is a popular place to train and I have been training there for a few months. Last week on a cool (dry) Sunday afternoon, I posted a time of 23 min and 33 seconds from the Stop sign at the start of Walmer St to the Chandler HWY end and then back to the sign again (one lap). The average speed was 33.4 km/hr. I was riding a medium range road bike with full aluminium wheels.

I have also done a 3 laps of the Boulie and got a time of 1 hour and 15 min. Average speed was 31.7 km/hr.

My question is how good or bad is this result? And what grade road races would I fall into with this kind of result?



Thanks
Last edited by zill on Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:01 pm

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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:01 pm

Here is the same lap in reverse.

Your time would be good for =420th.

C or D perhaps? There is more to road racing than time trial speed.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:30 pm

Found another segment You'd be =556th.

There's still a few riders behind you though.

The Hawthorn Cycling Club criteriums will have finished now I expect. Road season traditionally starts on April Fools day (or close to).

A number of clubs ride together as the Northern Combine to share administration/road approvals and to have better racing. Get into it, the Hell of the West is coming which is always fun despite the name, though I used to like it when it finished up The Bluff rather than having it mid race.

Cheers,

Cameron.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby zill » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:48 pm

ironhanglider wrote:Here is the same lap in reverse.

Your time would be good for =420th.

C or D perhaps? There is more to road racing than time trial speed.

Cheers,

Cameron


Thanks for the information. Looks like some people are really fast! Although I wonder if those top times are from riding time trial bikes? I was riding a normal road bike!

I also did 3 laps of the Bouie recently and averaged just over 31km/hr (which I have added to the OP). Is it surprising there isn't much of a difference in average speed between 1 lap and 3 laps or is this normal?

Also what kind of times (for 1 lap) would a typical B grader do (on a normal road bike)?
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby cyclotaur » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:20 pm

zill wrote:....I posted a time of 23 min and 33 seconds [for one lap]....I have also done a 3 laps of the Boulie and got a time of 1 hour and 15 min.

My question is how good or bad is this result? ...

Good enough to make me a cuppa before I finish my one lap, or make me lunch after 3 !!

But I'm old. And slow. And never do more than one lap....
(What never? /No, never! / What, never? / Well, hardly ev-ahhhh !! :mrgreen: )
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby kb » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:26 pm

cyclotaur wrote:
zill wrote:....I posted a time of 23 min and 33 seconds [for one lap]....I have also done a 3 laps of the Boulie and got a time of 1 hour and 15 min.

My question is how good or bad is this result? ...

Good enough to make me a cuppa before I finish my one lap, or make me lunch after 3 !!

But I'm old. And slow. And never do more than one lap....
(What never? /No, never! / What, never? / Well, hardly ev-ahhhh !! :mrgreen: )

He hardly ever does a lap x3....
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:59 pm

kb wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:
zill wrote:....I posted a time of 23 min and 33 seconds [for one lap]....I have also done a 3 laps of the Boulie and got a time of 1 hour and 15 min.

My question is how good or bad is this result? ...

Good enough to make me a cuppa before I finish my one lap, or make me lunch after 3 !!

But I'm old. And slow. And never do more than one lap....
(What never? /No, never! / What, never? / Well, hardly ev-ahhhh !! :mrgreen: )

He hardly ever does a lap x3....


So give three cheers, and one cheer more,
For the hardy rider known as cyclotaur…


As for zill, perhaps you could trawl through the results of some club websites to find a list of B graders and then and go looking for them in the Srava list. But as I've said before time-trialling and road racing are different so such a comparison is only marginally useful.

The way to get into B grade is to start racing at whatever grade you are now and get promoted. If you are not a confident bunch rider you would be a danger to yourself and others, especially in the higher grades where they ride with less margin for error, because they expect a certain skill level. Make contact with clubs or shops and ride with some training bunches. When you're there you can find out who rides what grade and they'll give you better feedback as to what grade you should ride with now.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby cyclotaur » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:12 pm

ironhanglider wrote:
kb wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:...But I'm old. And slow. And never do more than one lap....
(What never? /No, never! / What, never? / Well, hardly ev-ahhhh !! :mrgreen: )

He hardly ever does a lap x3....


So give three cheers, and one cheer more,
For the hardy rider known as cyclotaur…


Cheers,
Cameron

Excellent work !! :lol:
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby nescius » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:19 pm

zill wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:Here is the same lap in reverse.

Your time would be good for =420th.

C or D perhaps? There is more to road racing than time trial speed.

Cheers,

Cameron


Thanks for the information. Looks like some people are really fast! Although I wonder if those top times are from riding time trial bikes? I was riding a normal road bike!

I also did 3 laps of the Bouie recently and averaged just over 31km/hr (which I have added to the OP). Is it surprising there isn't much of a difference in average speed between 1 lap and 3 laps or is this normal?

Also what kind of times (for 1 lap) would a typical B grader do (on a normal road bike)?

A mate of mine is down there at the moment, he has been racing open B grade/club A grade for a little while. He has done the lap in about 20:30 at around 38.5kmh solo on his standard road bike (which is nothing too fancy). The last time I did it was in 2010 when I was racing E grade and I did a 23:38 at about 33.4kmh. (That's for this segment)
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby warthog1 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:42 pm

I wouldn't be too discouraged by the times that are heaps faster. Obviously there are some really strong riders around, but it is significantly faster in a bunch than by yourself. You always get a race day lift too.
Go and start racing in D grade and see where you fit after a few races :)
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby zill » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:47 pm

nescius wrote:
zill wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:Here is the same lap in reverse.

Your time would be good for =420th.

C or D perhaps? There is more to road racing than time trial speed.

Cheers,

Cameron


Thanks for the information. Looks like some people are really fast! Although I wonder if those top times are from riding time trial bikes? I was riding a normal road bike!

I also did 3 laps of the Bouie recently and averaged just over 31km/hr (which I have added to the OP). Is it surprising there isn't much of a difference in average speed between 1 lap and 3 laps or is this normal?

Also what kind of times (for 1 lap) would a typical B grader do (on a normal road bike)?

A mate of mine is down there at the moment, he has been racing open B grade/club A grade for a little while. He has done the lap in about 20:30 at around 38.5kmh solo on his standard road bike (which is nothing too fancy). The last time I did it was in 2010 when I was racing E grade and I did a 23:38 at about 33.4kmh. (That's for this segment)



Does your mate do special training drills? I wonder if it is necessary (for someone with no special talent) to need some training program in order to achieve 20 min for a lap of the Boulie? At the moment, the only training I do is to try to ride as fast as possible on whichever road or path I'm riding on which seem too basic?
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby zill » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:06 pm

ironhanglider wrote:
As for zill, perhaps you could trawl through the results of some club websites to find a list of B graders and then and go looking for them in the Srava list. But as I've said before time-trialling and road racing are different so such a comparison is only marginally useful.

The way to get into B grade is to start racing at whatever grade you are now and get promoted. If you are not a confident bunch rider you would be a danger to yourself and others, especially in the higher grades where they ride with less margin for error, because they expect a certain skill level. Make contact with clubs or shops and ride with some training bunches. When you're there you can find out who rides what grade and they'll give you better feedback as to what grade you should ride with now.

Cheers,

Cameron


I'm actually not that keen on racing in groups (both the social aspect as well as the danger of it - I'm not a good bike handler either). But I do love cycling and the idea of racing. I just like to improve my cycling fitness and then be able to compare my solo results with other more regular competitors and then give myself a grade. It's a bit antisocial but that is how I am unfortunately.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby SuperSix » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:23 pm

zill wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:
As for zill, perhaps you could trawl through the results of some club websites to find a list of B graders and then and go looking for them in the Srava list. But as I've said before time-trialling and road racing are different so such a comparison is only marginally useful.

The way to get into B grade is to start racing at whatever grade you are now and get promoted. If you are not a confident bunch rider you would be a danger to yourself and others, especially in the higher grades where they ride with less margin for error, because they expect a certain skill level. Make contact with clubs or shops and ride with some training bunches. When you're there you can find out who rides what grade and they'll give you better feedback as to what grade you should ride with now.

Cheers,

Cameron


I'm actually not that keen on racing in groups (both the social aspect as well as the danger of it - I'm not a good bike handler either). But I do love cycling and the idea of racing. I just like to improve my cycling fitness and then be able to compare my solo results with other more regular competitors and then give myself a grade. It's a bit antisocial but that is how I am unfortunately.

Then go and buy a Garmin edge and sign up to Strava. You'll get instant racking for just about every road you ride. There is something like 11,000 people who have logged times on the Boullie. I was happy to move from 7000th to 6000th then to 3000th and then into the top 700. Once you're into the top 3000 or so you move up maybe 40 or 50 places for every second you go faster. It's quite congested in the mediocre range.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby nescius » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:55 am

zill wrote:Does your mate do special training drills? I wonder if it is necessary (for someone with no special talent) to need some training program in order to achieve 20 min for a lap of the Boulie? At the moment, the only training I do is to try to ride as fast as possible on whichever road or path I'm riding on which seem too basic?


Yes, he rides somewhere between 300 and 400km a week and follows a training program provided to him by a coach.

If you are looking for a cheap program to follow just to try it out and see how you go then I can recommend a program from Argonauts Cycle Coaching. I bought and followed the Tour of Bright training program heading into the Tour of Bright and managed to win stage one in C grade, I subsequently bought his Crit training program and managed to get a silver medal at the ACT championships and won the B grade club championship. Most of the programs are around the $50 mark and it is money well spent if you are looking to improve.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby dalai47 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:44 am

Blackburn Cycling Club hold time trials on the Kew Boulevard. Pretty sure you can purchase a 3 race licence to try it out...

First race is on the 21st April - http://www.bbn.org.au/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=152882

Walmer st end to the roundabout return. 2 laps (20km).
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby jimmyjames » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:58 pm

A mate of mine races A grade and he did one lap (Chandler Hwy > Walmer > Chandler Hwy) in 22.49 or 34.4km/h. But there are lots of other factors involved, so a direct comparison is hard. Plus racing does not equal time trial.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby zill » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:29 pm

nescius wrote:
zill wrote:Does your mate do special training drills? I wonder if it is necessary (for someone with no special talent) to need some training program in order to achieve 20 min for a lap of the Boulie? At the moment, the only training I do is to try to ride as fast as possible on whichever road or path I'm riding on which seem too basic?


Yes, he rides somewhere between 300 and 400km a week and follows a training program provided to him by a coach.

If you are looking for a cheap program to follow just to try it out and see how you go then I can recommend a program from Argonauts Cycle Coaching. I bought and followed the Tour of Bright training program heading into the Tour of Bright and managed to win stage one in C grade, I subsequently bought his Crit training program and managed to get a silver medal at the ACT championships and won the B grade club championship. Most of the programs are around the $50 mark and it is money well spent if you are looking to improve.


Thanks a lot for the information. However, how does it work? I pretty much only train on the Kew Boulie (although there is also the short Richmond Boulavard and a Hawthorne velodrome nearby). Would a general program like the ones you recommend (either Base Training or Time Trial Training) work using only these roads?
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby zill » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:40 pm

jimmyjames wrote:A mate of mine races A grade and he did one lap (Chandler Hwy > Walmer > Chandler Hwy) in 22.49 or 34.4km/h. But there are lots of other factors involved, so a direct comparison is hard. Plus racing does not equal time trial.


Just out of curiosity, wouldn't it be very hard to finish at the Chandler Hwy end unless someone is timing you but even if that was the case, you are going extremely fast downhill and there isn't a lot of road for you to brake (you certainly don't want to get onto Chandler Hwy). If you were doing it yourself with a garmin computer, you'd have to take one hand off the handle bar, press stop and then break while downhill. It seems to be very dangerous. That is why most people seem to start and finish at the Walmer St end.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby nescius » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:52 am

zill wrote:
nescius wrote:
zill wrote:Does your mate do special training drills? I wonder if it is necessary (for someone with no special talent) to need some training program in order to achieve 20 min for a lap of the Boulie? At the moment, the only training I do is to try to ride as fast as possible on whichever road or path I'm riding on which seem too basic?


Yes, he rides somewhere between 300 and 400km a week and follows a training program provided to him by a coach.

If you are looking for a cheap program to follow just to try it out and see how you go then I can recommend a program from Argonauts Cycle Coaching. I bought and followed the Tour of Bright training program heading into the Tour of Bright and managed to win stage one in C grade, I subsequently bought his Crit training program and managed to get a silver medal at the ACT championships and won the B grade club championship. Most of the programs are around the $50 mark and it is money well spent if you are looking to improve.


Thanks a lot for the information. However, how does it work? I pretty much only train on the Kew Boulie (although there is also the short Richmond Boulavard and a Hawthorne velodrome nearby). Would a general program like the ones you recommend (either Base Training or Time Trial Training) work using only these roads?

You will probably get pretty bored with the longer rides, spending 3 hours on one 6km stretch of road might get a little tedious. I don't know how much training you are accustomed to, or how fit and strong you are so it is difficult for me to judge whether it would work for you or not. All I can say is that the programs that I bought worked for me, and the athletes I know who are on similar programs are all doing very well.

A typical week would probably be something like this:
Monday - rest
Tuesday - 1:30 with intervals
Wednesday - 1:00 recovery/E1
Thursday - 1:30 with intervals
Friday - 1:00 recovery
Saturday - 2:00 with intervals
Sunday - 3:00 endurance
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby zill » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:08 pm

nescius wrote:A typical week would probably be something like this:
Monday - rest
Tuesday - 1:30 with intervals
Wednesday - 1:00 recovery/E1
Thursday - 1:30 with intervals
Friday - 1:00 recovery
Saturday - 2:00 with intervals
Sunday - 3:00 endurance



For a 3 hr ride, I would most likely ride on Beach Rd.

But with the interval training, does it matter the terrain I am training on? What happens if the terrain I am training on does not suit their program?
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby 98octane » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:20 pm

I'm interested in this too. My best solo time is 21 mins dead for a full lap Walmer to Chandler and return, avg >36 kph. My usual time is around 22 mins.

As I've increased my commuting distance and pace over the last 18 months, I've dropped 5 mins from my Boulie time.

I've never raced formally, but did once race and beat a C-grader on the Boulie TT course.
Last edited by 98octane on Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:21 pm

zill wrote:
jimmyjames wrote:A mate of mine races A grade and he did one lap (Chandler Hwy > Walmer > Chandler Hwy) in 22.49 or 34.4km/h. But there are lots of other factors involved, so a direct comparison is hard. Plus racing does not equal time trial.


Just out of curiosity, wouldn't it be very hard to finish at the Chandler Hwy end unless someone is timing you but even if that was the case, you are going extremely fast downhill and there isn't a lot of road for you to brake (you certainly don't want to get onto Chandler Hwy). If you were doing it yourself with a garmin computer, you'd have to take one hand off the handle bar, press stop and then break while downhill. It seems to be very dangerous. That is why most people seem to start and finish at the Walmer St end.


That's not how Strava works. The GPS device simply logs where you are and when, and that information gets sent to Strava. It figures out all the timings for you, no button pushing required. I use an iPhone with Strava, I just start it recording, turn off the screen and stick it in my pocket. It stays there until the end of the ride when I turn the Strava app off.

Cheers,

Cameron.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby dalai47 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:13 am

98octane wrote:I've never raced formally, but did once race and beat a C-grader on the Boulie TT course.


If you didn't pin on a number, it isn't a race... First Blackburn CC Kew TT is on Monday 21st April. :wink:
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby jules21 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:46 pm

zill wrote:I know Kew Boulie is a popular place to train and I have been training there for a few months. Last week on a cool (dry) Sunday afternoon, I posted a time of 23 min and 33 seconds from the Stop sign at the start of Walmer St to the Chandler HWY end and then back to the sign again (one lap). The average speed was 33.4 km/hr. I was riding a medium range road bike with full aluminium wheels.


my best is 22:54 or 34.2 km/h :D

i race C grade. that's a decent time you got - you would be able to race in club C grade, or lower if you wished. also probably Open C, although you'll always find club A graders lurking and you won't win anything.

btw the guy who has the northbound leg KOM is a strava ambassador, ex-junior national champ and i suspect did it on a road bike. he's worth following on Strava, if just to remind yourself of how much of a hubbard you/we all are in comparison.
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Re: Kew Boulie Time?

Postby 98octane » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:49 pm

dalai47 wrote:
98octane wrote:I've never raced formally, but did once race and beat a C-grader on the Boulie TT course.


If you didn't pin on a number, it isn't a race... First Blackburn CC Kew TT is on Monday 21st April. :wink:


I'll put it in my diary. Is it at nighttime?
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