Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

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Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby zill » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:21 am

They say LA had 4% body fat at his peak and weighed 71kg (pre 2005) at the later stages of the TDF. But he is only 178cm which makes it very hard to believe that he weighed that much for his height and 4% body fat. I don't doubt his low percentage of body fat but do doubt his mass. He looked more like 66kg-67kg?

On the other hand Alexander Vinokourov looks a lot "thicker" and is 2cm shorter but only weighs 69kg when competing.

Vino looks heavier than his 69kg but LA (pre 2005) definitely looked sub 70 kg. What do people think here?

Also Jan Ullrich had a competing weight of 72kg and is 5cm taller than LA. He looked a lot bigger than LA but only 1kg heavier?
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by BNA » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:49 am

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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby clackers » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:49 am

Zill, I would take with a grain of salt measurements you might read. The team would know them on a weekly basis but there's no incentive to reveal to opponents your capabilities (which are typically watts per kilogram).

The stats in the back of the AFL Footy Record would come from the PR department of each club and not from an independent doctor, as another example.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby wardie » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:39 am

When we used to put our stats down before basketball tournaments I was always a few inches taller.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby Ross » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:37 pm

Riders would lose weight during a long tour like Giro or TdF so Lance might end up going from 71kg to 69kg or possibly less
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby zill » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:56 pm

clackers wrote:Zill, I would take with a grain of salt measurements you might read. The team would know them on a weekly basis but there's no incentive to reveal to opponents your capabilities (which are typically watts per kilogram).

The stats in the back of the AFL Footy Record would come from the PR department of each club and not from an independent doctor, as another example.


If that is the case then I hope there is an insider here that can tell me some truth.

Also if Lance was really lighter, what's the point of saying he weighs more?
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby zill » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Ross wrote:Riders would lose weight during a long tour like Giro or TdF so Lance might end up going from 71kg to 69kg or possibly less

Even that seem too heavy for him.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby zill » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:07 pm

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5894/ ... rance.aspx

From this article, it seems Vino had 4% body fat as well.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby find_bruce » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:30 pm

Maybe it is a question of which drugs they took. Pharmstrong was found to have used EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, corticosteroids, human growth hormone, saline and plasma infusions. Forgive me if I have missed some. Vinokourov was only found to have used homologous blood transfusion, although I would not be surprised if he used other prohibited drugs & methods.

Of course it is also possible that two people who thought nothing of lying and cheating to win, might be less than entirely honest about other matters like their height & weight. Pharmstrong in particular was very secretive about his weight, given that it was a key figure in power estimates.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby clackers » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:03 pm

zill wrote:
Also if Lance was really lighter, what's the point of saying he weighs more?


So that opponents don't train as hard or lose as much weight if they knew the real figures.

No point telling them your capabilities until you hit Alp d'Huez. :-)
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:43 pm

May make his watts per kilo look a bit less impossible without drugs if you over state the weight.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby clackers » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:58 pm

warthog1 wrote:May make his watts per kilo look a bit less impossible without drugs if you over state the weight.


Yes, and for Lance there is nothing to back the claim of an unusual VO2 capacity except that University hospital he donated cash to.

He was not known as a climber before his withdrawal from racing as a young cancer victim.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:18 pm

Then again if you tell everyone you're 71kg and you actually weigh say 68, it makes dropping the best climbers in the world up h/c climbs look more sus than it already is. :?


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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby zill » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:14 pm

Armstrong looked skinnier than Floyd Landis and Yaroslav Popovych listed at 68kg and 65 kg respectively.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby find_bruce » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:25 pm

zill wrote:Armstrong looked skinnier than Floyd Landis and Yaroslav Popovych listed at 68kg and 65 kg respectively.

& now I am curious as to why the fascination of the body composition of dopers
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby zill » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:48 pm

find_bruce wrote:
zill wrote:Armstrong looked skinnier than Floyd Landis and Yaroslav Popovych listed at 68kg and 65 kg respectively.

& now I am curious as to why the fascination of the body composition of dopers


I didn't think doping would affect body weight too much? At least with the dope that increase cycling performance like oxygen intake etc.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby donncha » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:57 am

Read Tyler Hamilton's book. EPO allows you go to on a 6hr ride, come home, eat almost nothing and still feel good the next day.
It makes it much easier to get super ripped.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby herzog » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:20 am

Yep agree Hamilton's book is very Insightful
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby rogan » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:26 pm

clackers wrote:
warthog1 wrote:May make his watts per kilo look a bit less impossible without drugs if you over state the weight.


Yes, and for Lance there is nothing to back the claim of an unusual VO2 capacity except that University hospital he donated cash to.

He was not known as a climber before his withdrawal from racing as a young cancer victim.


Yes, but 1999 Lance was visibly skinnier than 1995 Lance. My guess mid-high 60s, after being about 75 kg in 1995. I'm no expert, but one theory is the muscle wastage that occurs with strong chemo may have gotten rid of the upper body muscle he would have developed earlier as a triathlete. Apart from dropping weight, can good "assistance" turn *any* world class one-day rider into a world class grand tour rider? Dunno, but he was glowing pre-cancer, see Betsy Andreu's evidence as to what he told doctors around the time he was first diagnosed.

He also has a killer instinct, he's naturally extremely aggressive, not just in his racing, but the way he lives his life as a whole. Even among great sportspeople, it's unusual to find someone quite that intense.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby clackers » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:36 pm

donncha wrote:Read Tyler Hamilton's book. EPO allows you go to on a 6hr ride, come home, eat almost nothing and still feel good the next day.
It makes it much easier to get super ripped.


What page of that book do you claim says these things, Donncha?
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby Smithstreet » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:29 pm

can't believe you guys still want to talk about these 'dogs' as if nothing really happened!!

Forget about them!

#Moveonpeoples
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby donncha » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:45 pm

No idea if page numbers, but he talks about back to back 6hr days & collapsing into bed and also talks about coming home from rides, not eating, popping a sleeping tablet and waking up the next day.

Maybe it's not in the book and he said it elsewhere, or in an interview?
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby zill » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:12 pm

Smithstreet wrote:can't believe you guys still want to talk about these 'dogs' as if nothing really happened!!

Forget about them!

#Moveonpeoples


They are still better than most if not all people here without drugs so I still respect them as cyclists.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby Drizt » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:51 pm

Eh? What?

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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:14 am

donncha wrote:No idea if page numbers, but he talks about back to back 6hr days & collapsing into bed and also talks about coming home from rides, not eating, popping a sleeping tablet and waking up the next day.

Maybe it's not in the book and he said it elsewhere, or in an interview?


Yea that was definitely in the book. It was a real eye opener.
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Re: Body composition of Armstrong and Vinokourov

Postby herzog » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:20 am

Zill, really? You could say the same about those Chinese swimmers from a few years back.

These guys almost killed their sport, and destroyed the careers of those who wanted to ride honestly.

They are not heroes.
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