How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby vosadrian » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:07 am

6W/kg for 20 minutes... surely that is fairly good semi pro to pro level and should allow you to solo victory in A grade club level? I feel I do OK with several podiums in B grade and competitive in A grade, but I am nowhere near that. I guess I am somewhere closer to 4.5 (no power meter but riding with friends of similar weight with meters).
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by BNA » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:59 pm

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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:59 pm

vosadrian wrote:6W/kg for 20 minutes... surely that is fairly good semi pro to pro level and should allow you to solo victory in A grade club level? I feel I do OK with several podiums in B grade and competitive in A grade, but I am nowhere near that. I guess I am somewhere closer to 4.5 (no power meter but riding with friends of similar weight with meters).


My dream would be to win an A grade race from a solo or small group breakaway!! But that is at least 4 years away. I might never get there though. Was chatting to a former domestic pro and his peak FTP was 5.76! He was training 5 hours a day so maybe I really am being unrealistic.

Thanks for the info. Now I have an idea where B grade level is!
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:22 pm

6w per kg is probably unrealistic. If you really had the potential to develop that sort of power you would already be a professional sports person. Your potential would have been easily noticed when you were at school.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:06 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:6w per kg is probably unrealistic. If you really had the potential to develop that sort of power you would already be a professional sports person. Your potential would have been easily noticed when you were at school.


But I have been overfed since very young so had always been overweight. Hence never did too well in endurance sports but not badly either. Always about top 20%.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:10 am

happysumo wrote:Please start racing so you can stop these threads :lol:



I'll still start these threads because I will see all those guys better than me at the races (in higher grades) and wondering how I can be more like them (over time of course).
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby RonK » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:24 am

zill wrote:
happysumo wrote:Please start racing so you can stop these threads :lol:



I'll still start these threads because I will see all those guys better than me at the races (in higher grades) and wondering how I can be more like them (over time of course).

Maybe you should consider getting a coach or joining a club then. You'll get informed advice rather than diverse opinions, and no doubt be able to reach your objective much more quickly.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:58 pm

6w/kg is way better than me but......


cycling tips wrote:Chris Sorensen is 64kg and his mean 5 minute effort is 433watts. This equals 6.8 watts/kg. In comparison, I’m at the 5.8 watts/kg range (when fresh). Note that this was near the end of the race after Sorensen had nearly 200km in his legs at the bottom of the climb to Verbier.


http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/07/just-how-good-are-these-guys/

You need to be able to do it after 2 weeks of flat out racing and 200km in the legs on the day :wink:
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:26 pm

RonK wrote:
zill wrote:
happysumo wrote:Please start racing so you can stop these threads :lol:



I'll still start these threads because I will see all those guys better than me at the races (in higher grades) and wondering how I can be more like them (over time of course).

Maybe you should consider getting a coach or joining a club then. You'll get informed advice rather than diverse opinions, and no doubt be able to reach your objective much more quickly.


Fair enough but I haven't even completed a full year of serious riding yet so just trying to gather information myself from different sources first. Also, just trying to get base mileage at the moment as well.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:29 pm

warthog1 wrote:6w/kg is way better than me but......


cycling tips wrote:Chris Sorensen is 64kg and his mean 5 minute effort is 433watts. This equals 6.8 watts/kg. In comparison, I’m at the 5.8 watts/kg range (when fresh). Note that this was near the end of the race after Sorensen had nearly 200km in his legs at the bottom of the climb to Verbier.


http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/07/just-how-good-are-these-guys/

You need to be able to do it after 2 weeks of flat out racing and 200km in the legs on the day :wink:


I'd be extremely happy to one day get 6w/kg for 20 minutes full stop. Not trying to be a pro.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:09 pm

I have a few mates who race at a very good level ... none put out 6wpkg FTP, maybe 5.2 to 5.4, they hang at continental level ( continental without contract ). I have seen on strava a couple of times over 6w per kg for 10 minutes or more ... so steeping up to 6wpkg for 20min is obviously a huge step!...and even then I think you need something special somewhere in your arsenal to really standout.
So if you think you have a 6wpkg 20 in you Zill you should find out sooner than later ;-)
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How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:14 pm

There is/was a bloke where I live who puts out over that, well a couple actually. One of them won the NRS last year and the other is 10 secs or so faster than him on strava up the local climb.
Can't tell you what it's like to watch them climb even when they're just training I'm dropped like a stone. :x :lol:
I have no cycling ability by the way, they just live in the same town and they go on bunch rides with us mere mortals sometimes which is good of them. :)
Last edited by warthog1 on Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby GAV!N » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:43 pm

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/bi ... mance.html

An article that clearly shows that going in to the 6+w/kg is not for the average Joe. But then again, Zill isn't your average cyclist...
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:26 pm

^^^ they run past us all these fancy formulas etc but don't seem to mention wind speed or direction anywhere... The simplest thing that could skew the numbers hugely... Before you even take into account how the race played out.
Not defending anyone... Just too many variables for me.
Zill... Certainly persistent enough to be exemplary :-)
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:08 pm

toolonglegs wrote:^^^ they run past us all these fancy formulas etc but don't seem to mention wind speed or direction anywhere... The simplest thing that could skew the numbers hugely... Before you even take into account how the race played out.


How does wind affect power output? Does one push harder where there is a head wind? Or are you suggesting the wind acting as a force on the power measuring device?
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:16 pm

zill wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:^^^ they run past us all these fancy formulas etc but don't seem to mention wind speed or direction anywhere... The simplest thing that could skew the numbers hugely... Before you even take into account how the race played out.


How does wind affect power output? Does one push harder where there is a head wind? Or are you suggesting the wind acting as a force on the power measuring device?


Wind doesn't affect power out put... but it does affect how fast you go, including up a climb.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:50 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
zill wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:^^^ they run past us all these fancy formulas etc but don't seem to mention wind speed or direction anywhere... The simplest thing that could skew the numbers hugely... Before you even take into account how the race played out.


How does wind affect power output? Does one push harder where there is a head wind? Or are you suggesting the wind acting as a force on the power measuring device?


Wind doesn't affect power out put... but it does affect how fast you go, including up a climb.


oh ok yes that is a fair point regarding those top times.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby GAV!N » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:49 am

toolonglegs wrote:^^^ they run past us all these fancy formulas etc but don't seem to mention wind speed or direction anywhere... The simplest thing that could skew the numbers hugely... Before you even take into account how the race played out.
Not defending anyone... Just too many variables for me.
Zill... Certainly persistent enough to be exemplary :-)


I agree the numbers aren't factual, the article was just to show that aiming for 6w/kg is clearly an enormous goal for someone who hasn't even started racing yet.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:00 am

GAV!N wrote:http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/biking/Analysing-Froomes-Performance.html

An article that clearly shows that going in to the 6+w/kg is not for the average Joe. But then again, Zill isn't your average cyclist...


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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:08 pm

GAV!N wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:^^^ they run past us all these fancy formulas etc but don't seem to mention wind speed or direction anywhere... The simplest thing that could skew the numbers hugely... Before you even take into account how the race played out.
Not defending anyone... Just too many variables for me.
Zill... Certainly persistent enough to be exemplary :-)


I agree the numbers aren't factual, the article was just to show that aiming for 6w/kg is clearly an enormous goal for someone who hasn't even started racing yet.


What has racing to do with w/kg?

Surely someone could train for a very high w/kg without having raced at all. Although I do admit racing can push you to higher limits. I have raced actually but was way over weight at the time and had only trained for 2 months after a two year break (before that break, I was just commuting a little).
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:50 pm

You could train for years getting your Wpkg up... But if you weren't racing at the same time you'll be missing out on years of experience and experiences. There are very races that are won by wpkg alone. Of course being KOM on every hill might be someone's ultimate goal :mrgreen:
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby GAV!N » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:21 pm

zill wrote:
GAV!N wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:^^^ they run past us all these fancy formulas etc but don't seem to mention wind speed or direction anywhere... The simplest thing that could skew the numbers hugely... Before you even take into account how the race played out.
Not defending anyone... Just too many variables for me.
Zill... Certainly persistent enough to be exemplary :-)


I agree the numbers aren't factual, the article was just to show that aiming for 6w/kg is clearly an enormous goal for someone who hasn't even started racing yet.


What has racing to do with w/kg?

Surely someone could train for a very high w/kg without having raced at all. Although I do admit racing can push you to higher limits. I have raced actually but was way over weight at the time and had only trained for 2 months after a two year break (before that break, I was just commuting a little).


Good point. You could increase your W/kg without racing. My reference to racing, is because the title of your thread suggests that's what you're looking at. My point was, from what you're telling us, you're likely at C-D grade level (local), yet you're aiming for a power level similar to those at World Tour level... I just think you should set some realistic goals, and get out there (not just thinking/talking about it) before aiming to ride with the pro's (or at least at their level).
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:58 pm

GAV!N wrote:
Good point. You could increase your W/kg without racing. My reference to racing, is because the title of your thread suggests that's what you're looking at. My point was, from what you're telling us, you're likely at C-D grade level (local), yet you're aiming for a power level similar to those at World Tour level... I just think you should set some realistic goals, and get out there (not just thinking/talking about it) before aiming to ride with the pro's (or at least at their level).


For some reason, with a lot more training, I feel my body has the potential to get there, that's all. But thinking about it too much now is probably counter productive.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:21 pm

Also with the title of this thread, I assume the ideal racing weight is (roughly) the same as optimal FTP w/kg weight.
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby warthog1 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:39 pm

zill wrote:
For some reason, with a lot more training, I feel my body has the potential to get there, that's all. But thinking about it too much now is probably counter productive.



It's good to have self belief.
There is a fine line between that and delusion though :|
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Re: How accurate is the calculator for ideal racing weight?

Postby zill » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:47 pm

warthog1 wrote:
zill wrote:
For some reason, with a lot more training, I feel my body has the potential to get there, that's all. But thinking about it too much now is probably counter productive.



It's good to have self belief.
There is a fine line between that and delusion though :|


The thing is I usually don't have a lot of self belief in many sports but with cycling I do a bit.
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