Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:56 pm

wellington_street wrote:The driver should have also been nabbed for:

1. Entering an intersection when he cannot clear it
2. Driving with hazard lights on


This

And

He wasn't indicating as you begun the pass up the inside Summer, your behaviour was correct. What he failed to do was keep a proper lookout before changing lanes and failed to give way to traffic in the lane he was entering. Just when did SMIDSY get incorporated into the rules regarding lane changing?
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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by BNA » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:59 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby antigee » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:59 pm

think the police response is BS - should have just said not interested

my opinion is that the cyclist isn't in the trucks blindspot for quite a while before the truck slows for the speed bump - I would also suspect that the cyclist is far enough back to be seen even when moves briefly up the inside of the truck as it slows for the bump - the driver knew he was going to turn left soon - should have observed there was a cycle lane there and should have been checking well ahead

not a police issue and I'm not that long from England so not sure how construction safety works but I see a lot of guy and gals with slow/stop signs - if access to a site means turning the wrong way up a one way street and crossing a cycle lane to do it then a good risk assessment outcome would be to provide a holding area before the junction and supervise the vehicle turning - unless you don't care about cyclists - classic left hook in blindspot if the traffic was stopped and you are inexperienced enough to venture up the cycle lane

and what was the truck driver doing at the start?- first thought was waiting for gap in oncoming traffic as would cross into it but misses two opportunities if this was the problem - see the white car turn across and the not too smart move by the other cyclist - could have turned earlier no problem

my money would be he was on a mobile getting directions
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby fat and old » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:15 am

Summernight wrote:I can't quite understand it and will probably convey that to the police when I have it formed into something coherent.

I will also closely review the helmet and rear cam footage now. I didn't provide those to the police at the time as the handlebar camera showed the incident well enough...

I really hope this driver actually does start using his mirrors.

EDIT: How do I report the incident to WorkCover? Someone mentioned this as a possibility but I couldn't find a complaint form...


FWIW, from someone who drives trucks that size, in the inner city

Pulling into intersection and waiting. Fair move for large vehicles in peak hour, otherwise they'd never get around. Bicycles aren't the only recipients of bad manners. No one will let a truck in.
No excuse re Blind side. You were in the best place to be seen actually, prior to the speed hump.
One way street. As per the excuse, very common with construction sites. Go into CBD any weekend to see examples. Pro outfits will have a traffic bloke at either end, but not always.
Using Worksafe. Smallish timber/hardware supplier, maybe a fleet of 5 trucks. Waste of time. To easy to produce all the paper in the world to show compliance, meetings etc that anyone will need. Unless there's a serious accident, which you didn't have. Worksafe would be reasonable and allow the company to show compliance after issuing a PIN. Easy to do for the company.

Chuck a rock through their office window. :wink: :lol:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:32 am

Summernight wrote:EDIT: How do I report the incident to WorkCover? Someone mentioned this as a possibility but I couldn't find a complaint form...

don't bother. it's a traffic incident and they will refer you to the police. i can guarantee it.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:36 am

i had a funny MM incident last night. i turned into a side street that rises gently for a short distance, then drops for about 1km. it has speed humps.

this MM P plater turns in behind me and - faced with an oncoming car - squeezes past. i'm like "no biggie, but this will be interesting - i'll bet i'm faster on the descent over speed humps"

sure enough, i come up to his bumper. after the 2nd one, i just blew straight past - bunny hopping the speed hump. cue screaming engine RRRRRRRRRR as p-plater tries to stop me passing. so we're in a drag race, me on the RH side of the road, p-plater on the left with engine red-lining.

until the next speed hump, where s/he slows to 20 and i disappear at ~50. haha...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:09 am

Thanks guys.

I still haven't written my response yet to the police's email (been too busy) but will certainly mention everything you've said above.

My recollection was also that the truck sped up to try and get in front of me as he didn't want to get stuck in the traffic queue where he should have stayed until the traffic light ahead changed. I would have thought a professional driver should be held to a higher standard and not let off so lightly as they are constantly on the roads and someone who 'doesn't look in their mirrors' is a danger to everyone.

antigee wrote:and what was the truck driver doing at the start?- first thought was waiting for gap in oncoming traffic as would cross into it but misses two opportunities if this was the problem - see the white car turn across and the not too smart move by the other cyclist - could have turned earlier no problem


The truck driver pulled into a blocked intersection - he was following a blue ute who was possibly leading the way to the site and I think he didn't want to be separated from him. Cars here do generally let vehicles in from side streets, even a truck, so I don't think the "no-one will let me in so I'll push" is a good enough excuse for the driver. It was just plain inconsiderate.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:12 am

jules21 wrote:don't bother. it's a traffic incident and they will refer you to the police. i can guarantee it.

Which should be irrelevant.

Last time I checked just because the police involved doesn't negate the worksafe obligations.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby herzog » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:14 am

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:15 am

human909 wrote:
jules21 wrote:don't bother. it's a traffic incident and they will refer you to the police. i can guarantee it.

Which should be irrelevant.

Last time I checked just because the police involved doesn't negate the worksafe obligations.

i can assure you worksafe have no ambition to investigate isolated traffic incidents. if there is evidence a company's drivers are getting 2 hours sleep a night, maybe, but not failing to give way. they won't take any action. this is not idle speculation on my part :)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby herzog » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:16 am

Possibly the world's crankiest motorist?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:23 am

herzog wrote:Possibly the world's crankiest motorist?


bwahahaha!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:26 am

fat and old wrote:Pulling into intersection and waiting. Fair move for large vehicles in peak hour, otherwise they'd never get around. Bicycles aren't the only recipients of bad manners. No one will let a truck in.

I can understand the frustration but it is still illegal. Blocking everyone else means you have no moral high ground to stand on either.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Jangari » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:46 am

Summernight wrote:
Summernight wrote:This morning's inconsiderate, dangerous and illegal tray truck that:
1) enters and blocks an intersection when it was clear he wouldn't be able to fully clear the turn;
2) pulls into the bicycle lane without checking for bikes (ie. me) first; and
3) then turns left the WRONG WAY down a one way street.

Will shortly send an email to the company. When he started drifting across into the bike lane I didn't have much clearance room between him and the parked car. (Language warning- couldn't help myself)



Update from this: Police have decided not to charge the driver because:

1. I was (according to the driver) in his blind spot due to the length and size of his truck and the driver couldn't see where I was positioned at the time at the back of the truck (which means, IMO, to a normal person you would brake and wait until you definitely know it is clear, no? :roll: );
2. Council had blocked his access into the one-way street from the other end due to works so it wasn't an offence to turn the wrong way down the one-way street;
3. The driver was shocked when he saw the footage and apparently very remorseful and wanted the police to convey his apologies to me; and
4. The police have emphasised to the driver to be more cautious in the future regarding the possibility of drivers or cyclists in his blind spots.

Bit disappointed that I could have seriously been injured or worse by this incident and yet the SMIDS[Her] excuse is sufficient for the police. If the truck driver had been looking in his mirrors and aware of everything around him all the time like he should have and not accelerated as he moved into my lane to beat the traffic queue he would have seen I was there the whole time. Even me being in a designated bike lane isn't enough apparently.

At least the police talked to the driver so he knows cameras are watching his driving ability, right?...

:?


My opinion (as if you need any more) is that you're right about him following the ute in front, and he probably just ignored everything else on the road apart from the ute (you know how people are, having to do one task removes from their brain the ability to do a second, such as monitor mirrors).

You were clearly in his line of sight, he has enormous mirrors, with those extra one above for extra-wide view, so blindspot is absolutely no excuse.

His hazard lights go off at 40sec, which to me, along with the rest of the video, indicates that he thought he was going to be on main roads for longer (if you're going to simply turn straight back into the worksite, may as well just leave them on), so it looks like they (the ute and him) were trying to find a way into the worksite, and the ute decided unilaterally to go down the one-way street, which caught the truck off guard. If the turn was pre-empted, surely he would have indicated for a much longer time and moved over to the right, so as to complete the turn more sharply. The Pulsar in front was moving away quickly, so there would have been ample room to do that turn from the right-hand lane. So the truck thought the ute was continuing along the main road, but overtaking the traffic on the left rather than turning left (looks like the ute doesn't indicate until after merging into the left lane), so he followed the left 'merge' (and neglected to indicate), but it then quickly became a left turn instead.

Poor truckie. All the cognitive load of navigating streets, following a colleague, indicating, turning. You can forgive him for neglecting to see you ¡

Just out of interest, what happens after that? You have a rear cam, right? It looks like he tried that turn way too late and probably had to reverse and correct, which would further indicate that he was not prepared to turn there and that it was a last-minute decision.

None of which are excuses, and I would say there's a bunch of infractions going on here.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby fat and old » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:59 am

wellington_street wrote:
fat and old wrote:Pulling into intersection and waiting. Fair move for large vehicles in peak hour, otherwise they'd never get around. Bicycles aren't the only recipients of bad manners. No one will let a truck in.

I can understand the frustration but it is still illegal. Blocking everyone else means you have no moral high ground to stand on either.


Claiming neither legality nor the moral high ground. Just pointing out why some things happen. The truck being in the intersection originally (at the start of Summerknights vid) doesn't seem dangerous to me (I don't know what preceded that of course). Inconsiderate to the bicycles yes. Not so to other vehicles....it's the norm for slow moving traffic in peak hour to stop and leave side streets open and allow others to enter or cross. It's just manners. I do it all the time. Unfortunately the truck due his size showed none in blocking the cycle lane.

If there was no marked cycle lane we wouldn't even be talking about this facet of the vid.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:06 pm

fat and old wrote:If there was no marked cycle lane we wouldn't even be talking about this facet of the vid.

Well yeah because the fact its there is the critical factor. If it was a general traffic lane I'd be saying the same thing.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:25 pm

Jangari wrote:Just out of interest, what happens after that? You have a rear cam, right? It looks like he tried that turn way too late and probably had to reverse and correct, which would further indicate that he was not prepared to turn there and that it was a last-minute decision.

None of which are excuses, and I would say there's a bunch of infractions going on here.


He made the turn with no problem. His truck wasn't that big to require a corrective reverse. It didn't seem any larger than a normal delivery truck.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby fat and old » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:32 pm

wellington_street wrote:
fat and old wrote:If there was no marked cycle lane we wouldn't even be talking about this facet of the vid.

Well yeah because the fact its there is the critical factor. If it was a general traffic lane I'd be saying the same thing.


True enough :D

I see this commuting a lot along St Georges Rd/Brunswick St. Cars pull into the road, but cannot merge fully. Bikes just ride around them in that case. At the end of Brunswick at Victoria they just swarm all around. It seems to work. (I don't swarm...I'm too much of a chicken :lol: )
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby silentC » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:36 pm

Yeah chickens flock rather than swarm. That's more of a bee or wasp thing :)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:40 pm

fat and old wrote:
wellington_street wrote:
fat and old wrote:If there was no marked cycle lane we wouldn't even be talking about this facet of the vid.

Well yeah because the fact its there is the critical factor. If it was a general traffic lane I'd be saying the same thing.


True enough :D

I see this commuting a lot along St Georges Rd/Brunswick St. Cars pull into the road, but cannot merge fully. Bikes just ride around them in that case. At the end of Brunswick at Victoria they just swarm all around. It seems to work. (I don't swarm...I'm too much of a chicken :lol: )


if he'd left room on any side I would have done the same and gone around him. As it was he was hard up against the gutter when he pulled into the through road, blocking a ride around the back and his truck was too far right for me to go on the right around him. I'm not going to hop up onto the footpath as 1) that is illegal in VIC and 2) you can't get easily back onto the road once on the footpath. Plus I thought I may as well wait as it wasn't going to kill me if I did wait a few seconds... Oh wait... Hang on... It could have. :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:03 pm

So close to disaster today, crossing Bourke on foot. At a zebra.
Jerk was way back in his wannabe 4wd but wound it up and swerved slightly wide to carve new up.
So close that my free hand bounced off his quarter panel.

I was kinda hoping he'd stop to remonstrate but his kind runs out of stones the seconds they open the door
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby maestro » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:50 pm

Mulger bill wrote:So close that my free hand bounced off his quarter panel.


Uhhh, that's a hit and run of a pedestrian on a zebra crossing. Did you get his rego?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:55 pm

jules21 wrote:until the next speed hump, where s/he slows to 20 and i disappear at ~50. haha...

Awesome! :mrgreen: :D
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby queequeg » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:02 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
jules21 wrote:until the next speed hump, where s/he slows to 20 and i disappear at ~50. haha...

Awesome! :mrgreen: :D


It's even better when you get those speed cushions or slow points that you can thread through in a straight line whilst the car has to almost stop because they have lowered the fully sick suspension so far :-)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jules21 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:04 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
jules21 wrote:until the next speed hump, where s/he slows to 20 and i disappear at ~50. haha...

Awesome! :mrgreen: :D

sadly P-platers almost complete lack of ability to predict what is going to happen 5 seconds ahead of the present time can also work against us :(
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mikeyg63 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:16 pm

A classic SMIDSY!

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