Weight Loss

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Postby sogood » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:59 pm

europa wrote:... I gave examples of times when the various scales of height vs weight (which is all BMI is) said I was overweight when clearly I wasn't. Secondly, I'd like you to find somewhere on here where I've claimed that I am not currently overweight - you'll find I always claim that I am, just that I'm not overly fussed about it at this time.

So what's the objective basis by which you make the claim that you aren't overweight? So the basis of your claim is just a peek of yourself in the mirror. Your subjective claim of not being overweight does not have a scientific basis, while BMI is scientifically proven to have a good direct correlation with % body fat.

And so what's this contradictory statements of your that claims that you are 1) not overweight, 2) is overweight? And what's this "I am not overly fussed" has to do with a scientific discussion on fatness?
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by BNA » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:03 pm

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Postby sogood » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:03 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Isn't there a point where your perfomance is impacted by insufficient BF.

I am no sports physiologist. But I suppose it would also depend on the type of sport. You never see skinny swimmers...

At the same time, excessively low BF may be an indication of inadequate body store of various fatty acid and cholesterols, which are essential for body function. For the exact number I'd suppose you need to talk to a sports physiologist. For most, BMI under 20 would start to make you weary of this deficiency.
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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:38 pm

sogood wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Isn't there a point where your perfomance is impacted by insufficient BF.

I am no sports physiologist. But I suppose it would also depend on the type of sport. You never seen skinny swimmers...

At the same time, excessively low BF may be an indication of inadequate body store of various fatty acid and cholesterols, which are essential for body function. For the exact number I'd suppose you need to talk to a sports physiologist. For most, BMI under 20 would start to make you weary of this deficiency.


I would of thought the min for a male would of been lower than 20.

Heres another thread I've done on BMI.

Whats the estimate for my corrected BMI figure quoted in the above thread based on? Being a cyclist and a weight lifter, extra muscle for 2 different disicplines. If you look thru my training log, you will see the odd heavy lift, like this mornings, I don't know how many KG of muscle I've got, so my correct BMI is pretty much a guess.

BTW, did you want me to bring that book on Sunday.
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Postby sogood » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:01 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I would of thought the min for a male would of been lower than 20.

Heres another thread I've done on BMI.

Whats the estimate for my corrected BMI figure quoted in the above thread based on? Being a cyclist and a weight lifter, extra muscle for 2 different disicplines. If you look thru my training log, you will see the odd heavy lift, like this mornings, I don't know how many KG of muscle I've got, so my correct BMI is pretty much a guess.

BTW, did you want me to bring that book on Sunday.

20 isn't an exact number but a good statistical point. But I do know that those bulimic patient have serious biochemical problems wrt fat deficiencies.

I don't know what kind of correction factor you need for your muscles. Sorry to say it, but if Arnie sits at 30 during his prime, then you are far less developed than him, and your 23 shouldn't need that much correction.

On another point related to cycling and BMI. I read that pro roadies who are classified as climbers have a mean BMI of 21 or just under while sprinters comes up to around 22. Lance A supposedly sits just under 22 during his prime.

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/Bod ... cation.htm

As for the book, sure would love to read it, but only if you really want to discard it. If so, I'll trade you for the pair of 25mm tyres. And if it's trouble to carry the book on Sun, then we'll find another opportunity. Don't forget that I may not do the 6am RNP ride. One step at a time.
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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:10 pm

Can we all take a deep breath for a moment?.........

I'm loving the way this thread is developing, I've learnt quite a lot on the subject even though some (a lot :oops: ) is going waaaaay over my head.

Reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that every rider on the planet rides for their own personal reasons, from the hyper fit racer types such as Sogood and Mikesbytes to the people like me who got back on the bike as an adult as a way of getting smaller, and in my case rediscovering ones inner 16 year old :D I ride because I must, it's my fitness regimen, routine transport and sanity saver. Of course, cleaning that tough line through the rock garden or watching my 11yo son nail first up that creek crossing that dumped me the first two attempts is just the cream on top 8)

It's not what, how, where or how fast you ride that's important. It's THAT you ride.
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Postby sogood » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:19 pm

Mulger bill wrote:It's not what, how, where or how fast you ride that's important. It's THAT you ride.

Nothing beats a bit of serious but calm discussion on forums.

I agree the key is just to ride, and invariably there'll be health benefits. Crashing puts on negative health points on you though!

But just remember, BMI is a population based statistical measure, that correlates with a series of health issues relating to obesity. It's not a performance indicator of whether you are fit or not, but a prognostic reference for development of those nasty diseases that may kill you in later life.

If you are cycling to win today, then by all means take steroids and whatever, ignore BMI as long as you have the power to win. But if you are cycling and exercising for longevity, then BMI is a handy and proven reference on the state of your body.
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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:26 pm

Not sure if I'm brave enough to get out the tape measure :oops:

I've got some of those bodyfat scales, always used them at the same time of day etc as recommended in the manual, funny how my bodyfat varies between buggerall and elephantine :?
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Postby sogood » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:36 pm

By today's societal body image criteria, if you look fat, then you are fat. If you looked fine, then you can probably slim down a bit more to further reduce your risk of heart attack and others.
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Postby cludence » Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:08 am

Well I am kindof back to front on this one. I have lost 20kg since April last year but it was actually from eating. I have a habit of not being hungry and skipping meals and thats when I put on the weight. Once I make the effort to eat regular meals, the weight drops off me regardless of what I eat. I have been swimming and cycling on and off within that period but it has been irregular due to a back injury. So yes, got a few kgs still to go and hopefully once I can maintain a regular excerise routine with my back coping, I can get back to the fit me I once was!
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Postby LuckyPierre » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:31 am

sogood wrote:
europa wrote:... I'd like you to find somewhere on here where I've claimed that I am not currently overweight - you'll find I always claim that I am, just that I'm not overly fussed about it at this time.

So what's the objective basis by which you make the claim that you aren't overweight? So the basis of your claim is just a peek of yourself in the mirror. Your subjective claim of not being overweight does not have a scientific basis, while BMI is scientifically proven to have a good direct correlation with % body fat.

I trust that your tongue is in your cheek sogood, because Richard's certainly was. Richard's 'claim' is that he's always acknowledged his size and that he has enough self-esteem to give other things - like riding for enjoyment - a higher priority than chasing weight loss. That's not to say that, like me, he doesn't welcome every bit of weight loss that comes along.
I think that we all understand that the BMI is nothing more than a broad, statisitically based indicator of 'overweight-ness' and has relatively little to do with strength and fitness. After all, the BMI of an elite male weightlifter would be significantly different to that of an elite female gymnast - but no-one would claim that their relative body size and shape wasn't ideally suited to their chosen sport.
Mulger Bill wrote:Can we all take a deep breath for a moment?.........
Last edited by LuckyPierre on Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mikesbytes » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:31 am

sogood wrote:
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/Bod ... cation.htm

As for the book, sure would love to read it, but only if you really want to discard it. If so, I'll trade you for the pair of 25mm tyres. And if it's trouble to carry the book on Sun, then we'll find another opportunity. Don't forget that I may not do the 6am RNP ride. One step at a time.


Good link

Email me your home address and I'll drop the book off on the way to work

Dieting sucks, but I've got to loose those Christmas kilos :(
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Postby moosterbounce » Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:04 am

This has been very enlightening - I thought I had studied up on this stuff, but there is always more to learn.

I'll throw another one into the ring...frame size. Apparently if you hold your wrist with your other hand, this can give an indication...
if thumb and index finger overlap - small frame;
if thumb and index finger meet - medium frame; and
if thumb and index finger don't meet - large frame.

And before anyone says it, I don't mean BIKE frame!! :roll:

I have a large frame going by this which probably explains why, if I stand infront of a mirror with my sister in front of me, you can see a whole shoulder. She is only as broad as my left shoulder to right collarbone yet is the same height as me. And yet you can buy one-size-fits-all clothing!! :? Means I end up in mens t-shirts more often than not so I can still move...

Interesting that looking over the number of replies to posts recently, the most interest has been sparked by weightloss and weather!! I'm sure there is a connection here... :D

Moo...
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Postby MJF » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:30 pm

Yes - large frame!!! Now I have an excuse for being a fat bastard!

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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:41 pm

peterrjleach wrote:I think that we all understand that the BMI is nothing more than a broad, statisitically based indicator of 'overweight-ness' and has relatively little to do with strength and fitness. After all, the BMI of an elite male weightlifter would be significantly different to that of an elite female gymnast - but no-one would claim that their relative body size and shape wasn't ideally suited to their chosen sport.

This is the whole point. BMI is not just some useless indicator. It has prognostic correlations to the development of disease states. And that most here aren't elite level super muscular sportsmen, so BMI is very relevent as an indicator of health. And while we are talking about scientifically derived references to fatness, bringing in subjective reference to fatness into the discussion clouds the objectiveness of the thread.

You can train someone who is overweight or obese to run 100m or cycle TT faster than you and I ie. Their cardiorespiratory capacity can cope with the extra weight. But they are still not healthy, and for longer term health, they should significantly bring down their weight. And BMI would be very useful as a guide in this respect.

So please get away from the excuses of using elite sportsmen/women to invalidate BMI in this discussion, as just about all here aren't elite sports personality. The great majority of us here are the exact average population group that formed the studies that validated BMI as an index. And as far as cyclists are concerned, elite level cyclists (per earlier URL), their BMI primarily all fall within the 20-25 range.
Last edited by sogood on Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:45 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Email me your home address and I'll drop the book off on the way to work

Dieting sucks, but I've got to loose those Christmas kilos :(

Do the ride Sun and forget about eating anything at Cafe BoBo... You will sure lose weight. I was surprised that I lost another kg last weekend. Even taking in potential fluid loss, I have not had that weight point since early uni if not late high school. Ouch!

For the book and tyre. How about I give you a ride back home from Marrickville on Sun? This way neither of us will have to carry anything awkward. :)
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Postby mikesbytes » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:56 pm

sogood wrote:For the book and tyre. How about I give you a ride back home from Marrickville on Sun? This way neither of us will have to carry anything awkward. :)


OK, after BO BO's, I'll ride home and meet you at my place.
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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:15 pm

mikesbytes wrote:OK, after BO BO's, I'll ride home and meet you at my place.

Or pop our bikes on my car and we drive over.
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Postby gdl_gdl » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:56 pm

I like the article on BMI attached....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_liv ... _bmi.shtml

It describes what BMI is useful for and it's limitations as well. (All on 1 page!)

Cheers,

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Postby mikesbytes » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:05 pm

moosterbounce wrote:This has been very enlightening - I thought I had studied up on this stuff, but there is always more to learn.

I'll throw another one into the ring...frame size. Apparently if you hold your wrist with your other hand, this can give an indication...
if thumb and index finger overlap - small frame;
if thumb and index finger meet - medium frame; and
if thumb and index finger don't meet - large frame.

And before anyone says it, I don't mean BIKE frame!! :roll:

I have a large frame going by this which probably explains why, if I stand infront of a mirror with my sister in front of me, you can see a whole shoulder. She is only as broad as my left shoulder to right collarbone yet is the same height as me. And yet you can buy one-size-fits-all clothing!! :? Means I end up in mens t-shirts more often than not so I can still move...

Interesting that looking over the number of replies to posts recently, the most interest has been sparked by weightloss and weather!! I'm sure there is a connection here... :D

Moo...


Supprised that your post didn't generate another discussion.
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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:15 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Supprised that your post didn't generate another discussion.

I am aware of that one but not familiar with the amount of scientific data behind it.
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Postby pugsly » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:26 pm

europa wrote:Admit it Peter, according to the 'statistical measure', we're both should be dead ... :D


Bah, try 44.6 :oops: I was 49.8 when I decided to do something about it. :shock: :cry:
Not something I'm proud of, and I have a long journey ahead of me.

That's BMI, not weight :oops: :oops:
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Postby Bnej » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:38 pm

Good on you for making the effort mate. A lot of people get there and not as many make the effort to get back.
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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:02 am

Worry not Pugsly, it will work as long as you're having fun. That's what will keep you riding.

Everyone here's on your side and we'll help any way we can :D

If I ever get down your way, I'll buy you a low carb beer after a ride :lol:

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Postby sogood » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:39 am

pugsly wrote:Bah, try 44.6 :oops: I was 49.8 when I decided to do something about it. :shock: :cry:
Not something I'm proud of, and I have a long journey ahead of me.

Hard endurance ride is the trick. Sweat for 2 hours and then limit what you eat after... :)

Keep it up!
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Postby mikesbytes » Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:06 am

pugsly wrote:Bah, try 44.6 :oops: I was 49.8 when I decided to do something about it. :shock: :cry:
Not something I'm proud of, and I have a long journey ahead of me.

That's BMI, not weight :oops: :oops:


Thats a huge drop, mate your moving in the fast lane.
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