Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby colafreak » Fri May 15, 2009 10:54 am

10m is a damn high bridge, so fair point. It does make you wonder what sort of person can bring themselves to do that.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby BigVin » Fri May 15, 2009 11:03 am

I didn't actually realise it was aiming for me, till my riding partner said to me "dude that nearly hit you". The lady at my LBS was saying that someone strung up fishing line across a pathway we ride quite often, and nearly took out her husband. I too wonder what kind of people get their kicks outta do things like that. Saying that tho, some smart alec decided letting his pit bull off it's leash when I rode past his place last Friday was also something quite amusing to try. I really wonder how some people are able to function...
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby rob e » Fri May 15, 2009 11:59 am

fact is we have a lot of despicable people out there who lounge around all day living off our taxes, wrecking stuff, causing trouble and just being scum bags generally.......there are some areas in sydney that if i lived there i wouldnt be keen on riding on the road at all :evil:
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby rustychisel » Fri May 15, 2009 12:52 pm

s'pose you should rename it Shitney...
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby rob e » Fri May 15, 2009 2:23 pm

^ its not just Sydney ....these morons are endemic nationwide, particularly concentrated in the lower socio economic areas of our major cities and in regional areas, less so than the "country" areas in my experience. No responsibility, Nothing to do and no punishment.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby BigVin » Fri May 15, 2009 2:45 pm

Exactly .. .most of them tools know that the worst they'll get is a juvenile caution.
What happens.. they throw something at you, you get off your bike to confront them, they throw a brick at you, and steal your bike.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby stubbie » Fri May 15, 2009 7:46 pm

BigVin wrote:Exactly .. .most of them tools know that the worst they'll get is a juvenile caution.
What happens.. they throw something at you, you get off your bike to confront them, they throw a brick at you, you duck it before taking out their kneecap with your D-lock swung on the end of your cable before riding off and never riding in that area again.


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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby Strawburger » Wed May 20, 2009 9:14 am

Had a good one this morning. A moped going through Pyrmont pulled out of a parking spot (parked perpendicular to the road). Turned into the lane from the spot and continued to creep over to almost touch me. By this time i was in the middle of the traffic lane (not the cycle lane). I yelled a couple of times, gave her a "watch where you are going" yell, she replied "i looked". I love that comment... So i replied "You couldn't have otherwise you would have seen me!". With no comeback, she said sorry and slowed down to let me back into the lane (yay we won one!)

Now, it was raining so she probably assumed no cyclist would be out and about and was being lazy in observing her surroundings. However i did have lights going, reflective jacket and to top it off, she was wearing sunglasses. :shock:

Some people :roll:
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby hartleymartin » Tue May 26, 2009 10:20 am

Station Street, Fairfield 10am 26/05/2009

Driving instructor license no. 011498 harassed me claiming that it was against the law for bicycles to ride on the road for more than a certain distance because of their slow speed (ie - the old cyclists getting the way of motorist mentality). This was in front of a student. Normally I don't worry about idiots too much, but a driving instructor who teaches new drivers to disrespect cyclists on the road is just too much for me. I have lodged an online complaint with the RTA but now I intend to take this to his employer aswell.

Is there a particular way I can go about lodging formal complaint over this guy or can I look him up by his instructor license number to complain to his employer?
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby philip » Tue May 26, 2009 12:16 pm

hartleymartin wrote:claiming that it was against the law for bicycles to ride on the road for more than a certain distance because of their slow speed (ie - the old cyclists getting the way of motorist mentality). This was in front of a student

That's a freakin' disgrace! Do you know which company it was? I'd definitely follow through in making a complaint for that. If you know the company, since you have the other details, I'm sure they could figure out who it was.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby Broaders » Tue May 26, 2009 2:36 pm

Riding down Miller St alongside St Leonards park, I was in the left of two wide lanes, no traffic about at all. This complete muppet in a commodore wagon rides my rear wheel before pulling around me, hand on the horn and then turned around as he went past to see what I did! :shock:
Made it easier to see my extended finger I guess

I thought riding would be great for my zen, but I feel I'm becoming less and less of a pacifist :twisted:
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby hartleymartin » Tue May 26, 2009 3:16 pm

philip wrote:
hartleymartin wrote:claiming that it was against the law for bicycles to ride on the road for more than a certain distance because of their slow speed (ie - the old cyclists getting the way of motorist mentality). This was in front of a student

That's a freakin' disgrace! Do you know which company it was? I'd definitely follow through in making a complaint for that. If you know the company, since you have the other details, I'm sure they could figure out who it was.


Didn't get the company name, though I hope that having his instructor license number that was on his roof-top sign would help me track him down.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby trailgumby » Tue May 26, 2009 5:52 pm

HM, Good on you - don't hold back.

A sworn Statutory Declaration would be useful in this situation. Outline the events and what he said and did, including how you got his instructor's licence number. Keep it strictly factual and unemotional.

Send a copy with your complaint to the most senior manager you can find within the RTA, or even the Minister of Transport. If sending to the MoT, you need to frame your complaint in terms of systemic issues. Send another copy to the company concerned, noting that you've cc'd the RTA and MoT.

Most of these driving schools operate on a franchise basis so the worst they would do is give him the flick, and he ends up hooking up with another franchise. However, it will send a message to the goose that his attitude is out of order.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby paragonman » Sun May 31, 2009 5:42 pm

Hi, I have just read through this whole thread , personally I think the standard of the average Australian drivers skills and manners are poor. 2 years ago I went to the U.K. and rode 1600ks end to end , Only 3 times was my life by in danger due to poor driving, and not once did I witness hoon behavior towards me. Further a friend of mine who is fortunate and lives 7 months of the year in outer east Melbourne and the other 5 months in the U.K. has cycled in 10 different countries , 6 in western Europe , 3 in the middle east and OZ , He says the most dangerous place to both cycle and drive in is Australia. On the bright side I now live 25ks west of Ballarat and the drivers attitude to cyclists is no where as bad as Melbournes drivers , possible because there are a lot of riders here and the roads are wide.

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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby hartleymartin » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:40 am

Okay - to the guy driving that black 4WD/SUV type vehicle up Stanbrook Street, Fairfield Heights. Yeah, I thought I heard some calling out "Oi!" going up the street. I also did hear you say to me "get off the road" after I had turned left onto the Boulevard. You're stupid, and I hope one day that you are stupid enough to try this on a bike-cop.

I'm the one laughing at you - driving around in a gas guzzler, which cages you in for at least 2 hours a day, costs you a fortune to own and operate, is inherently unstable and is more likely to roll over and kills you in an emergency situation.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby msn » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:49 am

Well not happy with this one, what made me get on the soapbox is that....
Driver "All cyclists break the law"

Followed by an e-mail to the company concerned.

msn wrote:Dear Mr ****,

Unfortunately I have to bring to your attention the actions of one of your company's drivers on the morning of Friday 5th June 09 at about 07:25am. Vehicle registration ******.

My regular commute, by bicycle, requires me to use the combined pedestrian / cycle crossing at the intersection of Briens Rd and the bus T-way (Mons Rd) Northmead. This crossing was completely blocked by your company's vehicle.

I approached the driver and asked him to move the vehicle as access to the pedestrian / cycle crossing was blocked. The driver responded by saying he was waiting for a business to open across the road at 197 Briens Rd.
I replied that people cannot use the crossing as his vehicle is completely blocking it.
The drivers response "All you cyclists break the law" then winds up the window.
It would be totally inappropriate and offensive of me to suggest to professional drivers that "All truck drivers break the law". It is the minority who tarnish the reputation of law abiding road users - this applies to cyclists as well.

The attached photos clearly show the vehicle illegally parked. Note the red traffic light in the background, registration plate, and the semi-trailer stopped completely across the crossing.

As the vehicle presented a hazard, that in my opinion the driver did not seem to care about, I had no option but to place a call to the RTA Traffic Management line. It was at this point the driver then moved the vehicle, stopping with the rear of the trailer only one metre from the marked crossing lines - still illegally parked.

I would appreciate it if you would consider the following actions.

1. Advise the driver of his obligations to other vehicle users and pedestrians, in particular with regard to the NSW road rules 170 through to 174 (Part 12 Division 3 Stopping at intersections and crossings). Consider especially, the impact on a vision impaired pedestrian, using a cane, attempting to use this crossing.

2. Although only my opinion, I believe that this particular driver because of the comments made to me has a very poor view towards all cyclists. Perhaps your company could consider providing some counseling to this driver, to help him moderate his (perceived) negative view towards other road users and how his actions could have the potential to affect the safety of other road users.

I thank you for your time reading this letter and would appreciate it if you could provide me with some feedback in regard to this complaint.

Yours sincerely, etc


Links to photos. These do identify both the company and rego of the vehicle. (mods remove if not appropriate)

Photo 1
Photo 2
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:54 pm

MSN what an excellent and articulate communication to the company. Please do keep us informed as to what transpires.

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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby brauluver » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:50 pm

paragonman wrote:Hi, I have just read through this whole thread , personally I think the standard of the average Australian drivers skills and manners are poor. 2 years ago I went to the U.K. and rode 1600ks end to end , Only 3 times was my life by in danger due to poor driving, and not once did I witness hoon behavior towards me. Further a friend of mine who is fortunate and lives 7 months of the year in outer east Melbourne and the other 5 months in the U.K. has cycled in 10 different countries , 6 in western Europe , 3 in the middle east and OZ , He says the most dangerous place to both cycle and drive in is Australia. On the bright side I now live 25ks west of Ballarat and the drivers attitude to cyclists is no where as bad as Melbournes drivers , possible because there are a lot of riders here and the roads are wide.

paragonman


200 odd years of convict inbreeding :lol:
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby trailgumby » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:13 pm

msn, that's an excellent letter. Inclusion of the photos and mention of your call to the RTA is particularly good.

The only tweak I would have made is to draw the company's attention to the risks this driver's attitude towards vulnerable road users poses for the company's reputation in the community, to the ability of it's management to focus on the business free of the need to deal with avoidable lawsuits, and to its bottom line through avoidable damages claims.

Guys like this need to be managed out of the company if their attitudes won't change, and it will help get management's attention if you frame yoru letter in terms of things they care about - that is, how this loose cannon's attitudes will hurt them. Some of the better managers around will immediately see the large risk he represents, but others won't and it doesn't hurt to prompt them gently. :D
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby othy » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:58 pm

trailgumby wrote:msn, that's an excellent letter. Inclusion of the photos and mention of your call to the RTA is particularly good.

The only tweak I would have made is to draw the company's attention to the risks this driver's attitude towards vulnerable road users poses for the company's reputation in the community, to the ability of it's management to focus on the business free of the need to deal with avoidable lawsuits, and to its bottom line through avoidable damages claims.

Guys like this need to be managed out of the company if their attitudes won't change, and it will help get management's attention if you frame yoru letter in terms of things they care about - that is, how this loose cannon's attitudes will hurt them. Some of the better managers around will immediately see the large risk he represents, but others won't and it doesn't hurt to prompt them gently. :D


Call me a cynic, but I imagine after they work out what the word 'obligation' means, the trucking company management will most likely have a good laugh at the letter, pat the driver on the back, have a bit of a discussion about how all cyclists are close personal friends and then respond with something like "Dear msn, We take your complaint very seriously....blah blah blah, the driver has been spoken to about his parking". Thats if a response comes at all.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby elantra » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:52 pm

msn wrote:I approached the driver and asked him to move the vehicle as access to the pedestrian / cycle crossing was blocked. The driver responded by saying he was waiting for a business to open across the road at 197 Briens Rd.
I replied that people cannot use the crossing as his vehicle is completely blocking it.
The drivers response "All you cyclists break the law" then winds up the window.
It would be totally inappropriate and offensive of me to suggest to professional drivers that "All truck drivers break the law". It is the minority who tarnish the reputation of law abiding road users - this applies to cyclists as well.

This Truckie's statement illustrates one of the most dangerous human failings - the tendency to generalise and prejudice.
Based upon the perceived poor behaviour of a minority of cyclists, some people get the wrong idea and even act on it.
Is it a similar psychological process to all the other sorts of prejudice, as in sex, ethnicity, religion, tall people, short people etc etc etc. :?:
I would suspect that many cyclists would see reason to be prejudiced against heavy-vehicle drivers.
The difference is, as a cyclist, even if i despise the occasional truck driver, no careless action of mine will cause harm to the driver.
I think that it is about time that media personalities who dump on cyclists got the same sort of reprimand as if they were doing racial vilification etc. Because such prejudice constitutes a real hazard to innocent cyclists.

Interestingly, i was recently talking to a rural-area cyclist about her experiences on country roads.
She indicated that in the rural part of Queensland where she lived, motorists would give her a lot more respect and room when she rode her horse beside or on the road, compared to if she was riding her bicycle.
There must be an explanation for this, but probably not a logical one.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby stubbie » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:04 pm

To the the driver who blasted me with his horn from three lanes to my right on the Gold Coast Highway at Southport on Saturday night, thanks for reminding me that cycling on a public road, even when one is in a designated bicycle lane and displaying an impressive range of lights, is likely to expose one to all sorts of dangers from idiots who shouldn't really be allowed to hold a licence. :roll:
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby Biffidus » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:10 pm

It is staggering just how much some drivers seem to despise cyclists. I once had a bogan in a torana abusing me as I walked my bike over a pedestrian crossing. I figured afterwards that he had probably taken offence at the "one less car" sticker.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:16 pm

elantra wrote:This Truckie's statement illustrates one of the most dangerous human failings - the tendency to generalise and prejudice.
Based upon the perceived poor behaviour of a minority of cyclists, some people get the wrong idea and even act on it.
Is it a similar psychological process to all the other sorts of prejudice, as in sex, ethnicity, religion, tall people, short people etc etc etc.

This thread is an example of that. While it is a great place for people to vent about stupid, rude or dangerous drivers, it creates the impression that all drivers are like that.

The reality is that not all drivers are like that. Yesterday riding in a group of 10 a number of drivers went out of their way to be curteous, accomodating and considerate to make it easier for us. It cost the drivers little but helped us a lot. There were lots of smiles and thankyou waves from us. It was a great example of how the roads can work really efficiently when all road users are considerate of each other.
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Re: Vent - discourteous, ignorant, rude or plain stupid drivers.

Postby hartleymartin » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:20 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:This thread is an example of that. While it is a great place for people to vent about stupid, rude or dangerous drivers, it creates the impression that all drivers are like that.

The reality is that not all drivers are like that. Yesterday riding in a group of 10 a number of drivers went out of their way to be curteous, accomodating and considerate to make it easier for us. It cost the drivers little but helped us a lot. There were lots of smiles and thankyou waves from us. It was a great example of how the roads can work really efficiently when all road users are considerate of each other.


Hence why I also created this thread to allow us to express some of our better experiences:

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13687

Anyways - It seems that people in black SUV/4WD vehicles have bad attitudes. Twice today during the Tweed Ride I encountered bad motorists - one was a van driving in the bus lane! - Got a photo of him, perhaps should send it to police so he can get a ticket? Anyway - both of the bad motorists were driving black SUV/4WD type vehicles (urban tractors).

After the ride I went to Newtown to watch some bike polo. I was in a group of about 5 people and I cannot believe what some drivers will try on those narrow streets! I thought we had some close personal friends here in Fairfield (we do) but on the narrow and winding streets of the inner city it's really just unbelievable.
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