Frack - I've trashed the knees.

[MJF]

Well... after years of knee problems and a flare-up of pain after a 60km ride a couple of weeks ago, I finally gave up and visited the local sports medicine doctor today.

MRI on both knees in eight days time.

Probable tear of the anterior cruciate in the left knee. That might explain why the left knee kept on wanting to hit the top bar when I was commuting to work this week.

[tuco]

Well... after years of knee problems and a flare-up of pain after a 60km ride a couple of weeks ago, I finally gave up and visited the local sports medicine doctor today.

MRI on both knees in eight days time.

Probable tear of the anterior cruciate in the left knee. That might explain why the left knee kept on wanting to hit the top bar when I was commuting to work this week.

I've had both ACLs torn. (and repaired)
I wouldn't have thought cycling would cause any problems with a torn ACL.
I used to play basketball with one torn (probably a silly thing to do but I was young at the time)

My left knee is very good but the right one plays up a little but I did wreck it pretty badly. That' probably caused more by a tear or two in the cartilage. If I concentrate on my pedalling and keep my leg vertical it's pretty good.

Let us know how you go.

[MJF]

I'm not even sure when I did it. Probably dates back to "The Indoor Soccer Incident" fifteen years ago. But it's worse now than it ever has been before.

I've always had loose joints, but the left knee (which has always been the good one) has has this loose feeling for the last two couple of weeks. Looks like the kneecaps aren't tracking properly either.

The rest of the pain appears to be chrondomalacia, so I've been told to take anti-inflammatories for a few days when it flares and keep the cycling at short distances. Osteoarthritis - here I come...

[pospete]

Hey you never know things might not be as bad as all that and in any case with therapy and medical science miracles do happen. Hope it all goes well, Do keep me posted.

[MJF]

Well - at least the doc is happy for me to keep cycling.

When I told my cycling mate at work that I might have a torn cruciate, he immediately commented that he wouldn't mind having a bike for offroad, and then offered me $20 for my bike. Such sympathy.

[Mulger bill]

Well that's not great MJF, bad luck.
Here's hoping it's very minor.

Get better mate. There's much riding to be done

Shaun

[seddo]

Ahh Frack - BSG fan - and more importantly hope the knees improve

cheers
Seddo

[tuco]

Ahh Frack - BSG fan - and more importantly hope the knees improve

cheers
Seddo

Isn't Frack from Farscape?

Haven't watched either for a while, maybe it's in both.

[MJF]

It's actually a Dilbert thing... the cartoon acceptable F word.

[tuco]

I just asked a fellow scifi fan and BSG was frack and Farscape was frell.

I'm not familiar with Dilbert.

[MJF]

Just proves you don't work in I.T. Dilbert.

[tuco]

Just proves you don't work in I.T. Dilbert.

Partially right. Not currently but have an IT/electronic back ground, hence the sci fi interest.

[MJF]

In that case, I recommend you nip into a bookshop and buy a copy of "The Dilbert Principle" by Scott Adams. Makes me feel that my workplace doesn't rate too badly. And has a good explanation for what has gone wrong with IT & management.

[MJF]

Back on topic.

Yay! - new record for the ride home, knocked 29 seconds off the time for 20.74km, with the HR Avg down from 157 to 155.

Still waiting for the MRI... but what I've worked out is that I can't have any pressure on the knees. I tried knee warmers last week with bib-longs with an extra layer in the knees thinking it might be related to temp... and was in agony. 35Km on the weekend in shyshorts, no issues. 20.8km to work this morning in nix and trakkies, only mild discomfort, and a reasonable time. The ride home was without the nicks.

So - I don't know what the hell is wrong with the knees... but at least I know how to work around it for the moment. Once I have the MRI, I'll take it up with the doc again.

[MichaelB]

I have just had a recent issue with my left knee. The physio thinks that I have a basic small tear at the end of the quads.

This is related back to my motor bike crash and that my left femur is 3/4" shorter and rotated out by 15 degrees. The recent efforts on the hills has made it a bit cactus so have left the hills alone, and will be getting a proper bike fit done next week hopefully to try and address the issue.

So far on the flats, it's OK, but when accelarating hard, noticed the beginning of a twinge

Mind you, did my quickest avg speed for the 38.5km loop and matched my highest sprint speed as well. 31.36km/hr avg and 52.35km/hr sprint (minor tailwind)

[Hotdog]

I've been having some trouble with my knees the last week or so following on from the 90km ride I did Sunday before last. Probably a bike fit issue which is becoming more problematic as I do longer and harder riding, though I doubt it's helped that I've been neglecting my stretching. I had some minor pain before that cleared up when I resumed regular quad, calf and hamstring stretches so you'd think I'd have learnt my lesson... On my regular commuting routes I don't have much opportunity to warm up and down on the bike, so I imagine a proper stretching regime is even more important for me.

[MJF]

I 'generally' stretch... but this discomfort is more like bad sunburn on the knees, generally above the patella. When riding, I get pains around the tendons in the back of the knee where the material bunches if I wear longs, and I don't get the sunburn feeling if I ride in shorts or nicks. The discomfort usually starts an hour or so after the ride, and lasts for several hours. Even wearing tracksuit pants is causing some issues, but nothing compared with the longs. No sure what happens when winter really kicks in - tracksuit pants aren't going to be warm enough if it is still -2C outside.

[MJF]

And the MRI is done...

After translating all of the terms.... I have worn cartilage on both kneecaps and the right knee has excess fluid and 'minimal' change to one side of the main joint (the right knee has been the problem knee since the indoor soccer thing). No loose bits, no tears to the ligaments. So, some good news at least.

I'll update once the doc has reviewed the pics and can explain how much I can do without making the kneecap problem worse. Chrondomalacia sucks

[mikesbytes]

Shame about the knees. Whats the remedy?

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[MJF]

Simple remedy - sit on my butt and don't do any exercise. Complex remedy - I want to keep going with the cycling, but I don't want to have walking sticks or artificial joints in ten years time... which is why I went to the doc in the first place as it was obvious something was wrong, and I don't want to make it worse. I must be getting cautious in my old age (38 at this point).

[Mulger bill]

G'Day MJF, coincidentally, the term jumped out at me from the book I was reading on the train home last night, (Bicycling Magazine's 900 All-Time Best Tips).

If I may quote...

If you suffer from chondromalacia (a degeneration of the cartilage under the knee cap), cycling should help, not hurt, as long as you

1. Adjust the saddle so your knee remains only slightly bent at the bottom
of the pedal stroke.

2. Avoid big gears and long, steady, seated climbs.

The key is to spin in moderate gears and stand for at least part of each hill.

You could also have a look at this or this.

Good health mate, see you out there

Shaun

[mikesbytes]

I had bad knees when I was 38. At 46 the knees ain't perfect but they are pretty good.

[MJF]

Thanks guys... I've read most of the literature, it's a shame they don't explain the changes to bike setup. Keeping the seat as high as possible is obvious, because it reduces loading on the patella - but cleat & seat position are unclear.

I'm wondering if it's my hips causing issues as well - they don't have off-the-rack suit jackets to fit across my shoulders, so perhaps the pedals are too close together. That could be a bugger to fix...

[MJF]

Many moons ago....

I though this might be a good time to update the situation.

When seeing the doc, post MRI, I did ask if seeing a physio might be helpful - he looked surprised and said no. Since that time, the riding has been on and off with weather (too cold) and health (a chest infection put me out of action for a month). After finally getting back into the cycling, the knee pain returned after about two weeks...

So I was driving around looking for helmets for the twins and dropped into the shop where I had bought the bike - so while I was there, I asked about who to see for a proper bike fit, and was given a brochure for a sports physio centre.

Two weeks later, there I was being poked, prodded and videoed. I had gone for the deluxe fitting option (two physio's, not one) as it included an assessment of the rider and developing an exercise regime to fix any problems.

Turns out there were a few issues. Because I don't stretch after riding, I had developed tight quads which were affecting the ITB's and pulling the kneecaps off track. I also have uneven glutes, and my walking was a bit strange.... so off to a podiatrist.

The podiatrist, after more poking and prodding, worked out that I have twisted tibias, and my feet have a natural twist outwards of around 20 degrees from where they should be.

So - after ensuring I stretch after each ride, and giving up on trying to keep my feet pointed straight ahead, I have been doing 30+k rides with only mild discomfort. This is a big improvement over where I had been...

So, repeat after me - "I WILL stretch after riding".

[europa]

More to the point, physio's know more than some doctors give them credit for.

My son's got shoulder dislocation problems thanks to being incredibly flexible and loose jointed, and as a result of a heavy fall (14 year olds should not play soccer against 17 year olds). The doctors said, quite emphatically, he HAS to have surgery, now. Luckily the last doctor suggested physio as a 'might as well try it before we operate'. When I repeated this to the physio you could see him try to hide a rolling eyes type reaction and after a short time with the physio, the problems are much diminished thanks to growing strength in his shoulder. When you consider that the same doctor who referred us also suggested 'not playing sport until he's finished growing and it should be right then', I'm now wondering if the physio might not keep him playing until he's finished growing. We'll see.

Oh, and on the flexibility issue? Grasp your forearms with the other hands, hands about halfway between the wrists and the elbows - my son can do that behind his back

Richard