Tyre rotation

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Tyre rotation

Postby europa » Thu May 10, 2007 1:59 pm

Having a wee look at the Black Beast, the front tyre still has the mould stip along the centre tread, the rear tyre shows a fair amount of wear. This is to be expected when you consider what I'm asking my rear tyre to carry. It's too early to do this yet, but it occurred to me that swapping the front tyre and the rear tyre would prolong the life of this 'set' - otherwise I'll be replacing the rear tyre long before the front. Nothing wrong with just changing one tyre of course, but I may decide I want to go to something different then.

So, is tyre rotation as sensible as it appears to be on the surface?

If so, when? I'm thinking I'll do it at 1500km, then look at doing it again (or a new set) at the next 1500.

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by BNA » Thu May 10, 2007 2:20 pm

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Postby MichaelB » Thu May 10, 2007 2:20 pm

Having the same tyres, rims and same km, I too am wondering the same :D
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Postby Hotdog » Thu May 10, 2007 2:24 pm

Sheldon Brown is against tyre rotation. His argument is that you should always have your best tyre on the front as while it gets less wear it's more safety critical. The suggested strategy when the rear tyre is worn is to move the front tyre to the back wheel but buy a new tyre for the front.
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Postby Bnej » Thu May 10, 2007 2:37 pm

yeah, if you're going to have a flat, lose traction, blow out, or whatever kind of failure you want it to be on the back tyre.

Front tyre controls where you go and if you're upright. Back tyre just follows along for the ride.
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Postby europa » Thu May 10, 2007 2:39 pm

Hotdog wrote:Sheldon Brown is against tyre rotation. His argument is that you should always have your best tyre on the front as while it gets less wear it's more safety critical. The suggested strategy when the rear tyre is worn is to move the front tyre to the back wheel but buy a new tyre for the front.


Yeah, but my rear tyre is still very good - I'd be happy to have it on the front. We're talking well less than 50% wear on the centre strip and none visible on the treaded sides.

Also, I'm not interested in a mismatched set nor being locked into one tyre.

Other than that, I agree with Sheldon's basic tenant that you want a good tyre on the front.

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Postby MichaelB » Thu May 10, 2007 2:40 pm

I know that logic, and it is a fair statement.

But What Richard and I are looking at, is our particular tyres have a raised centre strip that wears down close to the remaining tyre to make the profile "rounder".

The tyre is still in fine condition, and it is likely that I'll take the approach of rotation.

Serious racer types etc, can ignore the rotation issue.

I'm not that serious, and I've not seen the tyres that we have available locally either

ooroo
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Postby sogood » Thu May 10, 2007 2:59 pm

I subscribe to Sheldon Brown and many others' logic of keeping the best tyre at the front. The idea here is to always place the new tyre at the front and move the old front to the rear, and retire the rear. Pretty simple.
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Postby tuco » Thu May 10, 2007 3:01 pm

How long does a tyre last?

Mine will clock over 3000km on the weekend. The rear one has a flat area around it and the front looks okay.

I've been looking at it for a while wondering how long it will last.

I thought about rotation but the front tyre is the last one I want to have destroy itself mid ride.

Since I'm racing it might be best to replace the rear and save injuring a few riders if I had a blow out.
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Postby sogood » Thu May 10, 2007 3:16 pm

tuco wrote:How long does a tyre last?

Mine will clock over 3000km on the weekend. The rear one has a flat area around it and the front looks okay...

I just retired a Conti GP4000 used at the rear after 4500+km. There's still some life in it as it still hasn't worn down to the base of the wear indicator. But a deep cut removed a chunk of rubber and it would not be safe to continue to use it.

Life of tyres vary a lot depending on the type of tyre. Some racing specific tyres wear out within 2000km while others just last. The weight of the rider/luggage also play a part in the wear. A common reference I read is that you can ride it until base threads starts to show or when punctures becomes too frequent for comfort (related to thinning rubber).
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Postby MichaelB » Thu May 10, 2007 3:29 pm

sogood wrote:I subscribe to Sheldon Brown and many others' logic of keeping the best tyre at the front. The idea here is to always place the new tyre at the front and move the old front to the rear, and retire the rear. Pretty simple.


Don't disagree, but it is also good to keep matched tyre pairs as well. So if you can't get replacements, then rotation when the tyres are still good is an alternate option.

As with many things, common-sense applies (of which I have just enough..... most of the time)
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Postby europa » Thu May 10, 2007 3:38 pm

And you are all talking about tyres worn far more than what mine is. I'm not talking about putting a bad tyre on the front, I'm talking about maximising the time before either tyre starts to look sad. Quite frankly, I'm not interested in having a sad rear tyre either.

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Postby Bnej » Thu May 10, 2007 3:58 pm

Well rotate them if you want to.

Overall, you're going to wear out the same number of tyres though, you're just fiddling the order.
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Postby europa » Thu May 10, 2007 4:20 pm

Bnej wrote:Well rotate them if you want to.

Overall, you're going to wear out the same number of tyres though, you're just fiddling the order.


Not quite true with me. I always replace tyres as a set, rather than just buy one new one, but I don't recall seeing a difference in wear like I am with this set - in the past it didn't really matter that I was tossing away a partly worn front but the way things are going, the rear is going to be knackered long before the front shows any real wear at all. Maybe it's a product of the new rubber, more likely to be a product of me being a lot larger than I was in the eighties and hence I'm putting more weight on the rear now.

Much as I don't like to be constrained in my choice, the Bongrager RaceLights I'm running have proven to be good tyres, so buying another one isn't going to upset me greatly ... provided I can find one at a half extortionate price when the time comes.

We'll see. You watch, I'll discover some glass damage on the rear and wont want to risk it on the front anyway :roll:

Here's another question - do more punctures happen on the rear (more weight, more chance of driving in the object) or is it random? My memory would seem to suggest the rear is more vulnerable.

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Postby MichaelB » Thu May 10, 2007 4:35 pm

europa wrote:

We'll see. You watch, I'll discover some glass damage on the rear and wont want to risk it on the front anyway :roll:

Here's another question - do more punctures happen on the rear (more weight, more chance of driving in the object) or is it random? My memory would seem to suggest the rear is more vulnerable.

Richard


I guess the rear is more vulnerable as the added weight can help to really grind in the piece of glass or whatever.

Funnily enough :roll: my first puncture was on the front .....

A quick google fails to reveal a store that sells the tyres on their own. There are plenty that sell them with afree bike thrown in though ,......

Cheers

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Postby sogood » Thu May 10, 2007 4:38 pm

40/60 front-rear weight distribution of a typical bike would be consistent with the observation of a greater percentage of punctures on the rear.
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Postby Hotdog » Thu May 10, 2007 4:49 pm

While I understand the arguments for rear tyre punctures being more likely than front tyre ones my peace of mind requires me to continue to delude myself that it's the other way round :shock: Getting the rear wheel off my hub geared bike to change a tube is much more of a PITA (it involves two different spanners and two allen keys) so the idea of having to fix a front wheel flat by the side of the road is fine but I wouldn't like to get a rear wheel puncture while far from home.
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Postby sogood » Thu May 10, 2007 5:06 pm

Hotdog wrote:While I understand the arguments for rear tyre punctures being more likely than front tyre ones my peace of mind requires me to continue to delude myself that it's the other way round :shock: Getting the rear wheel off my hub geared bike to change a tube is much more of a PITA (it involves two different spanners and two allen keys) so the idea of having to fix a front wheel flat by the side of the road is fine but I wouldn't like to get a rear wheel puncture while far from home.

I have not had a front flat after 5 rears... :roll:

I think you better learn to do the rear pronto. :wink:
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Postby europa » Thu May 10, 2007 5:11 pm

Hotdog wrote:While I understand the arguments for rear tyre punctures being more likely than front tyre ones my peace of mind requires me to continue to delude myself that it's the other way round :shock: Getting the rear wheel off my hub geared bike to change a tube is much more of a PITA (it involves two different spanners and two allen keys) so the idea of having to fix a front wheel flat by the side of the road is fine but I wouldn't like to get a rear wheel puncture while far from home.


Which is why my fixie wears quick release skewers :wink:

Why so complicated? I can understand why a quick release axle might not work, but why the extra messing about? I wouldn't worry about it though - just plan on fixing the flat on the side of the road rather than replacing the tube (you don't have to remove the wheel to just fix the flat - don't ask how I know ... and that was in the days of real vulcanised patches :wink: )

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Postby Hotdog » Thu May 10, 2007 5:12 pm

Scared now :wink:

I can do the rear, and do make a point of carrying the necessary tools for rear wheel removal as well as the normal spare tube, puncture repair kit, pump, etc., it's just that it takes longer than the front.
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Postby MichaelB » Thu May 10, 2007 5:18 pm

Victor Cycles in Brissie stocks the Bontrager tyres

$59.xx for the Wire Bead Race Lites (as per Richards and my bikes)

$89.xx for the foldable Race X Lites.

Looks like GP4000 or similar from the web for the next set of tyres.

Just missed out on the Vittoria Rubino Pro's at Torp 7 for $20 ea :cry:
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Postby europa » Thu May 10, 2007 5:24 pm

I might go down to the Goodyear factory and get them to mould on some solid rubber :twisted:

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Postby Hotdog » Thu May 10, 2007 5:25 pm

europa wrote:Why so complicated? I can understand why a quick release axle might not work, but why the extra messing about? I wouldn't worry about it though - just plan on fixing the flat on the side of the road rather than replacing the tube (you don't have to remove the wheel to just fix the flat - don't ask how I know ... and that was in the days of real vulcanised patches :wink: )

Well, as you guessed sticking a quick release skewer through a geared hub isn't an option so I need a 15mm spanner to loosen the two axle bolts. I've also got a roller hub brake on the rear wheel which use a torque arm clamped to the stay on the left side, and removing that requires a 10mm spanner together with an allen key. Finally I need to detach the brake and gear shift cables, and unhooking the gear shift cable needs a small allen key. Once you know how it's not difficult but still takes a few minutes.

Before I got it all worked out I had previously patched a rear tube in situ to avoid the hassle of removing the rear wheel, but that wasn't by the side of the road it was when I had plenty of time for the glue to dry.
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Postby Bnej » Thu May 10, 2007 6:44 pm

europa wrote:I might go down to the Goodyear factory and get them to mould on some solid rubber :twisted:


You can get solid, airless, road tyres. They just suck donkey nuts.

In essence you trade the occasional inconvenience of punctures for:
- much worse rolling resistance
- harder to fit tyres
- poor shock absorbing
- worse handling
- probable rim damage due to lack of force distribution.

Couple of people I ride with have Conti GP4000s, they sound good.
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Postby mikesbytes » Thu May 10, 2007 11:03 pm

I use to do all that stuff, tyre rotation, put a new on a front and put the front on the rear or whatever. Nowadays I'm a bit slack, I might wack a new one on the front and finish off the tyre on the rear, when I get rid of the rear.

Get about 9 months out of a front and 3 months out of a rear.

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Postby stryker84 » Fri May 11, 2007 1:00 am

europa wrote:Other than that, I agree with Sheldon's basic tenant that you want a good tyre on the front.


As the resident wordsmith, I'm assuming you meant "tenet" , as opposed to someone who currently occupies Sheldon's property? :wink:
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