The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 pm

There are signs along the pathway, at junctions and at entry points that mention don't block the pathway and to keep to the left to allow cyclists and other peds to pass by. Corners usually have a white line to seperate the direction of cyclists/peds. I had no issue with them walking 2 abreast along the pathway but the problem I had was that they didn't show any intention at moving to allow me to get past despite looking directly at me and along the pathway. Because of all the rain we've been having parts of the cycleway/shared path now has ruts/soft mud/puddles that you don't know how deep are on the sides. There are also tree branches in alot of sections. When I'm riding along a shared pathway and peds are blocking by walking 2 abreast in the very narrow sections I always put the flash on as a extra warning. Usually most people show signs of moving over (person on the far left starts to move over/the person on the right starts walking slower to get behind their friend) even before I put it on flash with the last few showing signs of moving over when my light starts to flash. But these two people didn't show any signs of moving over or walking behind each other. Low, flash, high beam, nada. Not a single reaction from the different light settings. It was only after I was right infront of them verbally telling them to move that they showed any sign of moving to allow me past.
Image
User avatar
Lukeyboy
 
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am
Location: Brisbane

by BNA » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:33 pm

BNA
 

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:33 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:There are signs along the pathway, at junctions and at entry points that mention don't block the pathway and to keep to the left to allow cyclists and other peds to pass by. Corners usually have a white line to seperate the direction of cyclists/peds. I had no issue with them walking 2 abreast along the pathway but the problem I had was that they didn't show any intention at moving to allow me to get past despite looking directly at me and along the pathway. Because of all the rain we've been having parts of the cycleway/shared path now has ruts/soft mud/puddles that you don't know how deep are on the sides. There are also tree branches in alot of sections. When I'm riding along a shared pathway and peds are blocking by walking 2 abreast in the very narrow sections I always put the flash on as a extra warning. Usually most people show signs of moving over (person on the far left starts to move over/the person on the right starts walking slower to get behind their friend) even before I put it on flash with the last few showing signs of moving over when my light starts to flash. But these two people didn't show any signs of moving over or walking behind each other. Low, flash, high beam, nada. Not a single reaction from the different light settings. It was only after I was right infront of them verbally telling them to move that they showed any sign of moving to allow me past.


The signs have little legal meaning. Only the cyclist has any strong legal requirement for keeping left, and only the cyclist can be fined for not doing so.

If offpath is unridable, (or you just plain don't feel like riding off the path) then stop on the path. You aren't required to vacate the path, and then the pedestrians will have to conform to the other side of the path to get past you. I wouldn't run a flasher or highbeam when approaching pedestrians (or even riding on a sharepath) as its unbelievably annoying.

ie about the only reaction I am likely to give to an impatient motorist who is flashing me with highbeams is a raised digit. Can't imagine that there aren't pedestrians who will feel the exact same way when presented with a cyclist doing it.
zero
 
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:28 am

I swivel my light with my knee so its not an annoyance approaching people with it on flash (Its still visible but its not as in your face so to say - late afternoon it shouldn't even be a problem with it still pointing straight). I'm not going to stop for two slow moving peds because they choose not to move on a 2.5-3m wide path even though they watch me as i'm riding slowly towards them. Treat other users like a pickle expect other users to treat you like a pickle. Fair game imo.
Image
User avatar
Lukeyboy
 
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:27 am

zero wrote:The signs have little legal meaning. Only the cyclist has any strong legal requirement for keeping left, and only the cyclist can be fined for not doing so.

I mentioned this earlier - pedestrians do have a legal obligation. Not to keep left, but to keep clear.

Victorian Road Rules wrote:236 Pedestrians not to cause a traffic hazard or obstruction
(1) A pedestrian must not cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
(2) A pedestrian must not unreasonably obstruct the path of any driver or another pedestrian.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18181
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:02 am

il padrone wrote:
zero wrote:The signs have little legal meaning. Only the cyclist has any strong legal requirement for keeping left, and only the cyclist can be fined for not doing so.

I mentioned this earlier - pedestrians do have a legal obligation. Not to keep left, but to keep clear.

Victorian Road Rules wrote:236 Pedestrians not to cause a traffic hazard or obstruction
(1) A pedestrian must not cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
(2) A pedestrian must not unreasonably obstruct the path of any driver or another pedestrian.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.

Which pedestrian is creating the obstruction ? The rule only applies to individual pedestrians not to groups, same as rule 125 for drivers in general. While it would seem that you are assuming the one on the right, there is no legal basis for that assumption. Further you omited sub-rule 3
(3) For subrule (2), a pedestrian does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another pedestrian only by travelling more slowly than other pedestrians.
If they are walking along the path they are not an obstruction for the same reason that a cyclist taking the lane is not obstructing traffic contrary to road rule 125.
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3566
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:08 am

They can however be a hazard/obstruction if they block the entire path while walking along it. The onous would be on the person on the right/anyone blocking the path of oncoming cyclists/peds on the pathway.
Image
User avatar
Lukeyboy
 
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:43 am

find_bruce wrote:Which pedestrian is creating the obstruction ? The rule only applies to individual pedestrians not to groups, same as rule 125 for drivers in general. While it would seem that you are assuming the one on the right, there is no legal basis for that assumption.

Pretty simple that if a bike is approaching on the left (legally required to keep left) and two oncoming pedestrians do not move aside then strictly speaking it is the one blocking the left* side of the path that is at fault - creating an obstruction to traffic (though morally it is up to both of the peds to work it out)

* right side from the ped's point of view.


find_bruce wrote:Further you omited sub-rule 3
(3) For subrule (2), a pedestrian does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another pedestrian only by travelling more slowly than other pedestrians.
If they are walking along the path they are not an obstruction for the same reason that a cyclist taking the lane is not obstructing traffic contrary to road rule 125.

That would certainly apply if they are walking the same direction as you are riding.... and you were walking your bike faster than they. Although I would certainly argue that two people blocking the path by walking side by side and refusing to move aside for a moment (with no good reason) to let a cyclist past are certainly against the letter of the rule. I don't think lawmakers intended that cyclists on a shared path should be forced to wheel their bikes behind pedestrians who just want to take up the path for no good reason.

[edit] Just re-read that subrule (2) more clearly. No it does not apply - see above.

But not the case with two oncoming pedestrians - refusal to move aside is obstruction, pure and simple. Walking slowly or otherwise.
Last edited by il padrone on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18181
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:55 am

il padrone wrote:Although I would certainly argue that two people blocking the path by walking side by side and refusing to move aside for a moment (with no good reason) to let a cyclist past are certainly against the spirit of the rule.


Image
jasonc
 
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:14 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I don't take chances around these peds.

QFT!

An unintended and unwanted consequence of that is that some (many) will take your caution as tacit approval to do stupid things. Because you are taking such care they don't have to.

Case in point, a while back I was headed workwards along Spencer St towards a green light at a comfortable rate not exceeding R when 2 or 3 sheeple stepped out. No time for the "audible warning device" but the bellowed "SHIII-FAAAAR" coupled with the howling of overstressed, cherry red brake rotors sufficed. I came to a screaming, nosewheeling, adrenalin pumping halt with the front wheel just inside the crossing lines (still green for me BTW) and half a dozen more of them decided this was just the opportunity they needed to also redman right in front of me. :roll:


I'm going to be totally cautious. I've got no interest in being knocked over by one of these disinterested, totally zoned out pedestrians. I've had that once, and it landed me off the bike for nearly 5 weeks.

Additionally, all the other people here are whinging about not going slow enough, you go slow and people still whinge. :roll: Believe me though, when I pass a pedestrian doing something silly, Im going to tell them what I think.

Common sense is the right way. And if the shared path is wide, straight and clear, then I'm going to sit on 35-40km/h. I'm not a hero though, I have limits of how quick I'll go, especially through corners.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:18 pm

Moron yesterday coming up King Street (Perth) to the lights at Wellington Street. Bus is stopped at the stop line with its right indicator on to turn right. Moron cyclist comes flying up to the red light on the right side of the bus and nearly takes out a lovely young lass who is crossing in front of the bus on the green man. Said lass was completely blindsided by the moron cyclist as the view of both parties was blocked by the bus - one does not (but perhaps should?) expect moron cyclists to come flying up on the blind side of a bus and through a red light while peds are crossing. Said moron narrowly misses her and still keeps going through the junction and a crowd of pedestrians who were also crossing on the green man, to head off down Wellington Street. Gotta love the <language>
wellington_street
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:34 pm

il padrone wrote:[edit] Just re-read that subrule (2) more clearly. No it does not apply - see above.



Enough of the bush lawyer antics.

Just ride with courtesy, give way to pedestrians in shared zones, and generally use common sense, and you'll get to your destination.

Incidentally I have NEVER seen a female cyclist behave aggressively towards pedestrian. It's always blokes. Interesting.
User avatar
herzog
 
Posts: 1653
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:44 pm

herzog wrote:Enough of the bush lawyer antics.

It was not me that was asking "where is the rule?"


herzog wrote:Just ride with courtesy, give way to pedestrians in shared zones, and generally use common sense, and you'll get to your destination.

I would say the same, and courtesy is a two-way street - I'd expect pedestrians to be prepared to move aside for a cyclist, when it's practical.

Pretty simple really, but there are some out there that get misguided views in their minds and behave bloody-mindedly.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18181
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:04 pm

My wife and I had a rest off the path today and let a group through. We soon caught up to them , but I didn't want to pass as we would soon be going down a side track and it just wasn't worth the bother of forcing our way through. :D
I wouldn't call them morons, just a group of nice folk out for a spin. But forget about overtaking or be prepared for a near miss on some of the corners. As it happened no one came the opposite direction in the kay or so that we followed them so no harm done. But 3 and 4 abreast all the way.
just a screen grab so not great res.

Image
outnabike
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:33 pm

Hmm.... not a good image to present. What trail was this on?

I am aware of a group - not a formal club* - of mostly middle-age/senior riders who ride in this style. A friend tells me he used to ride with them. They would ride the trails and shared paths here in Melbourne, in a peleton of 20-30 riders two-abreast and virtually expect oncoming riders to just pull aside ie. they do not move over to single-file :roll: . My friend was not happy with this, for the image and for the safety issues of riding in a large group on a narrow trail; so he would press on ahead to spread out the group, or get himself out of harms way. Eventually he was told to keep within their 'peleton' style by the leader of this group and publicly castigated (via their website).

They are also doing night rides, riding in a similar style on the trails, with most of the group sporting a certain brand of the typical marsupial-fryers which would be extremely blinding to any oncoming cyclist especially from a large group.

He no longer has anything to do with them, and nor would I :roll:


* They like to say they're not a club as if this has some benefits. They do however have all the attributes of a club - formal program, web-site, ride leaders and group guidelines, and a list of 'members' - but they are unincorporated and have no legal liability protection for the ride leaders/organisers, the 'members', nor for the participants. Very foolish IMHO.
Last edited by il padrone on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18181
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:47 pm

outnabike wrote:Image

This is what you get when riders behave like peds, all over the place chatting away with their brains in neutral :(

I actually came across my first group of 5 like this in my town while out on the FG yesterday evening. I'm glad the leader was about 10m in front to call or the stack on a blind turn would've been nasty.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25567
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:54 pm

I've seen them do that too. They are usually going slower than you are, it's impossible to get past them, and the self-preservation instinct kicks in, so you stay well back so you can avoid the inevitable accident. That's my way of dealing with it. When they do it coming up to blind corners, where the opposite direction has a down-hill run, that's crazy and totally dangerous.

The particular run I'm thinking of, and the particular corner, I expect that cyclists or pedestrians going the other way might be doing this, so I'm already on the brakes just in case. The hard-core road-bike riders I don't worry about, these people know the drill and they are among the most steady and dependable riders of the lot. Even if they are hammering along at high speed, they are doing it in a steady manner.

I'm not really one of those pack riders, so I don't get much of a chance to be doing what the photo above shows. :|
g-boaf
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:20 pm

herzog wrote:
il padrone wrote:[edit] Just re-read that subrule (2) more clearly. No it does not apply - see above.



Enough of the bush lawyer antics.

Just ride with courtesy, give way to pedestrians in shared zones, and generally use common sense, and you'll get to your destination.

Incidentally I have NEVER seen a female cyclist behave aggressively towards pedestrian. It's always blokes. Interesting.

thinking about my experiences I would probably agree. however when it comes to people with a bee in their bonnet about cyclists those few I have experienced have been women in twos our threes or more.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4637
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:18 am

commute in this morning. roads were wet but no rain
dumb cyclist decided the best time to overtake a runner on the path behind brisbane boys/girls colleges was on a blind corner. unfortunately, I happen to be coming the other way at the time.
All I had time to yell was feces (or a similar word)
Dumb cyclist then locked them up
I then called him a genius
Image
jasonc
 
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:02 pm

Ouch!! :shock:

Not a good start to your day.

Image
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18181
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:48 pm

Un-flipping-believeable. Shared path. I slowed for a blind left-hand entry to an underpass, I'd just called out "Bike!" in case peds/ cyclists were on the wrong side (happened a few times), when another cyclist overtakes me on the outside on the wrong side of the path. :shock: He looked at me like I was some kind of idiot when I went off at him. A hundred meters later, the shared path crosses a road at a T-intersection, he rode straight across without doing head checks. Nut-bags like this are the reason all cyclists get grief from peds and cars.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:43 pm

il padrone wrote:Hmm.... not a good image to present. What trail was this on?

.
snipped

That is part of the Dandenong creek to Carrum trail going from Heatherton Rd towards the Kidd Road / Clow St Bridge.You would follow it through Dandenong to Patterson river, a nice ride.
The whole party of around 12 gents all were all elderly, probably a club and just cruising along talking away. Nothings a problem unless the unexpected happens and they would probably just move over if a rider came towards them. But rearwards , they had no Idea We were there. :D . I still reckon good on them for getting out and about.
outnabike
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby cp123 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:39 am

twizzle wrote:Un-flipping-believeable. Shared path. I slowed for a blind left-hand entry to an underpass, I'd just called out "Bike!" in case peds/ cyclists were on the wrong side (happened a few times), when another cyclist overtakes me on the outside on the wrong side of the path. :shock: He looked at me like I was some kind of idiot when I went off at him. A hundred meters later, the shared path crosses a road at a T-intersection, he rode straight across without doing head checks. Nut-bags like this are the reason all cyclists get grief from peds and cars.




I've had that happen before just near my place - obviously going into a slightly uphill but blind corner I must've been a tad too slow so someone went to pass me. In my case there WAS an oncoming cyclist and lucky for the guy who was now right next to me that the oncoming rider about to pop out in front of both of us dinged his bell. Dopey rider next to me then grabs the brakes and drops back behind me. was that 5 seconds totally worth it??? it could've been V E R Y ugly.... :roll: as it was, i turned at the exit and sprinted off and he didn't catch me anyway. :twisted:
cp123
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:50 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:46 am

Hmm..... but everybody keeps telling me bike paths are so safe compared to riding the road :? :roll: :lol:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18181
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby cp123 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:56 am

the paths are fine. They never buck you off or bolt off on you. It's just that sometimes there are stupid people on those paths. :lol: :lol:
cp123
 
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:50 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby DarrylH » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:34 pm

And, stupid pedestrians and cyclists on paths are less dangerous than stupid people in cars.
DarrylH
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A_P, duncan16v, geoff_tewierik, pacra



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter