The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

[Ross]

Cyclist suffered a broken shoulder blade and ribs after hitting unleashed dog near Melbourne - owner did not offer to help the seriously injured man

http://www.news.com.au/national/victori ... d2380bbf22

AN aspiring ironman who suffered a broken shoulder blade and ribs when a dog jumped in front of him on a bike trail is fuming the animal’s owner left without calling an ambulance.

The dog was off-lead in an area where dogs have to be “under effective control”.

Rob Ferdinands, 47, has spent the past 18 months training for his first ironman event, in December in Western Australia, but that dream has now been dashed after the crash on October 7.

Mr Ferdinands flipped over his handlebars after T-boning a dog that “blindsided” him on the Dandenong Creek trail, near Wantirna Reserve.

Mr Ferdinands was riding about 30km/h and said he was distracted by a dog on the right side of the path when a second dog ran out of the long grass from the left.

The crash left him bloodied and short of breath and he spent the night in hospital with a broken shoulder blade and two broken ribs.

The father of two from Narre Warren East said the injuries had taken a toll on his everyday life.

He appealed to the dog’s owner to contact him.

“If they had have stopped and maybe apologised and given me their number I wouldn’t have pursued it further,” he said.

“The fact is they made that conscious decision to leave, even though they could see I had trouble breathing.”

Mr Ferdinands said he was dazed at the time but remembered lying on the ground “muttering expletives” about the two dogs not being on a lead.

“I was pretty angry to be honest, that was my first reaction, then I realised I was in serious trouble,” he said.

He said other cyclists eventually stopped, helped him off the path and sat with him until paramedics arrived.

“They were great,” he said of the good Samaritans.

“One of the girls put a Band-Aid on my grazed elbow, which was a nice gesture. That reassured me there are good people out there.”

He said the dog was black and white, believed to be a blue heeler, and the dog’s owner was an Asian man.

Anyone with information can contact Mr Ferdinands at robinferdinands@bigpond.com

[fat and old]

30k's on the Dandy Ck trail? Ironman training? Yeah, ok.

[BenGr]

30k's on the Dandy Ck trail? Ironman training? Yeah, ok.

Get off your high horse. Is it unsafe to go that speed at that point? Are people training for Ironman's banned from doing anything other than beach road repeats?

[Cyclophiliac]

30k's on the Dandy Ck trail? Ironman training? Yeah, ok.

Get off your high horse. Is it unsafe to go that speed at that point? Are people training for Ironman's banned from doing anything other than beach road repeats?

Many parts of the Dandenong Creek Trail aren't suitable for 30km/h, so it's a reasonable comment from f&o. The cyclist could have picked a better spot to do that speed than a shared path, where part of "sharing" involves lowering your speed at some points to allow for poor sight lines and/or cycle/foot traffic conditions. I'm not victim-blaming, by the way: I think the dog owner should have admitted responsibility for failing to control his dog.

[JamesT10]

I must have missed the part where it said he was on a training ride...

[HenryCharlie]

Hope the guy's okay and very poor form on the dog owner for walking off. A good reminder though to slow down if you see loose dogs on or near the trail.

[silentC]

I must have missed the part where it said he was on a training ride...

What difference does it make? He said he was doing about 30kph, whether he was technically training or not is immaterial. I often ride at speeds greater than 30kph on our local shared path, but obviously only when I have clear visibility and I wouldn't ride past a ped at that speed. So the question is whether doing that speed was wise at that time and place. Whether he was training or just commuting or whatever doesn't come into it.

As for the dog, the owner is clearly in the wrong there but like everything cyclists have to deal with, it is to be expected. So again it comes down to suitability of that speed in the conditions. This comes up time and time again in this thread. Unless you know the specific location well (I have never been there) it's not really for anyone to judge. Doesn't stop people though!

[uart]

Cyclist suffered a broken shoulder blade and ribs after hitting unleashed dog near Melbourne - owner did not offer to help the seriously injured man

http://www.news.com.au/national/victori ... d2380bbf22

Look at the public opinion, out of 20 comments so far, only three show even slight sympathy for the rider. TBH I have to admit this is one of the very few times that I'm actually inclined to agree with some of them. Take the following for example.

"The headlines on this story would be completely different if this idiot had nailed a toddler at 30km/hr on a shared pedestrian path. Time for cyclists to ride to their surroundings, not their inflated egos."

This is common complaint on a lot of shared paths, cyclists passing too close at speed. Other path users do really hate this. Most cyclists are pretty good on my local shared path, but still I do see plenty go way too fast when passing kids for example, when you KNOW kids can be erratic.

This guy had already seen the owner and at least one other dog running loose, but still going 30k by his own reckoning (so maybe more). It's not smart.

[human909]

Double standards abound here....

Dog, toddler whatever... If they go running onto roads or road related areas surely the standards and accountability should be the same.... Yet some how we continue, even on this forum, to hold cyclists to greater accountability. Sort of like the prevailing attitude of a certain UK cyclist being expected to ride slower than motorists drive due to it being a pedestrian area.. An errant dog owner is clearly at fault here.

As far as the speed of the cyclists goes I can't comment I don't know the path. What I do know is that whatever speed a cyclist is travelling at somebody will complain. Where can you ride at 30kph without complaints?

[fat and old]

30k's on the Dandy Ck trail? Ironman training? Yeah, ok.

Get off your high horse. Is it unsafe to go that speed at that point? Are people training for Ironman's banned from doing anything other than beach road repeats?

Nah, I like it up here.

I assume you've ridden that section? 30k's is stretching it a bit, given the locality and likelihood of peds etc. But hey, go nuts. Kill everything for all I care

Here

https://www.google.com.au/maps/(AT)-37.856 ... a=!3m1!1e3

[fat and old]

Double standards abound here....

Absolutely! Agree 100%.

[fat and old]

What I do know is that whatever speed a cyclist is travelling at somebody will complain.

Have to agree with this too.

[BJL]

As far as the speed of the cyclists goes I can't comment I don't know the path. What I do know is that whatever speed a cyclist is travelling at somebody will complain. Where can you ride at 30kph without complaints?

It depends on exactly where the incident occurred. Near the reserve itself there are a few bends in the path but easily ridden at 20-25kph (the speed I'd normally ride in this area) and there is plenty of visibility (no blind bends). A couple of hundred metres to the north, there's a straight section where you can easily ride at 30kph or faster. If it occurred on this straight section, then 30kph would almost be the typical speed of a cyclist.

[CXCommuter]

What I do know is that whatever speed a cyclist is travelling at somebody will complain.

Have to agree with this too.

What is absolutely certain is some people will continually argue that cyclists are never ever ever ever at fault

[baabaa]

What is absolutely certain is some people will continually argue that cyclists are never ever ever ever at fault

So as a dog owner-ing cyclist I am in the clear?
Anyway dogs just love to hit bike riders and can and should be trained to do so. The owners need this to happen often just so they can get a christmas card from the vet each year.
Still slow news days have to fill the papers with peoples that need to complain about just how really hard Australian 'burb life can be.

[silentC]

What I do know is that whatever speed a cyclist is travelling at somebody will complain.

Have to agree with this too.

Well yeah, but there are times and places where certain speeds are and are not appropriate. You don't just fang around at 30kph expecting everyone to be clear of you. In fact that sounds suspiciously like an argument I have heard from some motorists.

[JamesT10]

I must have missed the part where it said he was on a training ride...

What difference does it make? He said he was doing about 30kph, whether he was technically training or not is immaterial. I often ride at speeds greater than 30kph on our local shared path, but obviously only when I have clear visibility and I wouldn't ride past a ped at that speed. So the question is whether doing that speed was wise at that time and place. Whether he was training or just commuting or whatever doesn't come into it.

I don't think it does, I was responding to fat and old who's comments seemed to imply that it did (and that he was on a training ride, which there was no reference to in the original article).

[silentC]

Sorry yes, I was also responding to the general sentiment more so than your post specifically.

[CXCommuter]

What is absolutely certain is some people will continually argue that cyclists are never ever ever ever at fault

So as a dog owner-ing cyclist I am in the clear?
Anyway dogs just love to hit bike riders and can and should be trained to do so. The owners need this to happen often just so they can get a christmas card from the vet each year.
Still slow news days have to fill the papers with peoples that need to complain about just how really hard Australian 'burb life can be.

Baabaa- dig is most certainly not at you.. apologies if you took any offense.. I cannot comment on your incident as I was not there.. I would be making assumptions which may or may not be true

[baabaa]

Hey, CXC wait on I agree with you!! Okay I feel little bit sorry for that bloke but he can really only blame himself. I control my dog when I need to and I always try to control myself in accord to the riding environment when on a bike.
The whole fact that the chorus-line of comments on this forum always chip in about how hard done by any bike rider is and how they consider that anyone on a bike can never be wrong and will always be damned is just plain odd and to be honest, quite amusing. Never hear any of the good news about how and when people and cars (and dogs) and bikes can and do get along just the same old no or low news stuff that should remain out of even the worse local newspaper.
If people here are so woebegone about riding bikes the plain and simple solution is to just stop riding a bike and see how that goes. As a lifetime biker I doubt I will ever stop riding as I really enjoy it and just don't the whole misery stuff that some people here always ouze out.

[BenGr]

Hey, CXC wait on I agree with you!! Okay I feel little bit sorry for that bloke but he can really only blame himself. I control my dog when I need to and I always try to control myself in accord to the riding environment when on a bike.
The whole fact that the chorus-line of comments on this forum always chip in about how hard done by any bike rider is and how they consider that anyone on a bike can never be wrong and will always be damned is just plain odd and to be honest, quite amusing. Never hear any of the good news about how and when people and cars (and dogs) and bikes can and do get along just the same old no or low news stuff that should remain out of even the worse local newspaper.
If people here are so woebegone about riding bikes the plain and simple solution is to just stop riding a bike and see how that goes. As a lifetime biker I doubt I will ever stop riding as I really enjoy it and just don't the whole misery stuff that some people here always ouze out.

That attitude would be fine, but the fact the dog owner took no responsibility, and even left an injured person on the ground definitely changes the situation. Arguing about whether or not the cyclist was doing something is foolish from an article is hard, but there's no difficulty in judging the dog owner.

[g-boaf]

What I do know is that whatever speed a cyclist is travelling at somebody will complain.

Have to agree with this too.

Well yeah, but there are times and places where certain speeds are and are not appropriate. You don't just fang around at 30kph expecting everyone to be clear of you. In fact that sounds suspiciously like an argument I have heard from some motorists.

I also ride at more than 30km/h on the local cycleway/shared path. I was doing so yesterday, sitting on 40km/h. But like you, if I see a group of people ahead or someone with a dog, I automatically slow right down.

Just yesterday, some guy says of his dog (off leash) "she's alright" and I thought, that's what they all say and then it goes off chasing after me or something else it has seen.

If a dog was on a normal sized leash in areas requiring it, the dog wouldn't need to be controlled "when I need to". There are dog parks where you can let a dog run freely in safety.

[CXCommuter]

Hey, CXC wait on I agree with you!! Okay I feel little bit sorry for that bloke but he can really only blame himself. I control my dog when I need to and I always try to control myself in accord to the riding environment when on a bike.
The whole fact that the chorus-line of comments on this forum always chip in about how hard done by any bike rider is and how they consider that anyone on a bike can never be wrong and will always be damned is just plain odd and to be honest, quite amusing. Never hear any of the good news about how and when people and cars (and dogs) and bikes can and do get along just the same old no or low news stuff that should remain out of even the worse local newspaper.
If people here are so woebegone about riding bikes the plain and simple solution is to just stop riding a bike and see how that goes. As a lifetime biker I doubt I will ever stop riding as I really enjoy it and just don't the whole misery stuff that some people here always ouze out.

That attitude would be fine, but the fact the dog owner took no responsibility, and even left an injured person on the ground definitely changes the situation. Arguing about whether or not the cyclist was doing something is foolish from an article is hard, but there's no difficulty in judging the dog owner.

My attitude is I don't assign blame before knowing all of the facts, most of the time blame is not black or white. There are multiple permutations to the above incident that changes the face of the actions and blame of all parties so I won't be judging
All good baabaa.

[baabaa]

If a dog was on a normal sized leash in areas requiring it, the dog wouldn't need to be controlled "when I need to". There are dog parks where you can let a dog run freely in safety.

Yes and no, but not helping anyone hurt indicates that person was just weird.
To me "control" just means that, I wont let her off the lead for a whole lot of reasons not just bikes but when at an off-lead park or not, having grown up with real working dogs, even my stupid cocker can sit, stay and wait from the other side of an oval just from a whistle and then hand signals. This doesn’t mean that I should or do trust any other dogs or the ability of owners to train and control and to be able to do the same.

Do people not read Richards Bicycle Book anymore? Quote....
Dogs
Dogs and other creatures of the field and air are a menace to the cyclist. I was once attacked by a determined and large goose. Dogs are the main problem, though, and you need to keep a constant lookout for old Towser. It is no fun to spend a month picking bits of gravel out of your legs and face because a dog knocked you off your bike. If you are bitten outside of Britain and the dog gets away, you will have to undergo a long and extremely painful series of rabies shots. There are many theories about why dogs attack two-wheeled vehicles. I think that the spokes make a noise which drives them nuts. There are also a number of dog owners who take pleasure in having attack-prone animals, and others who transgress through blinding ignorance. One couple expressed puzzlement to me after their dog bit my riding companion. Every time the dog misbehaved, they said, they beat it until their arms hurt: why wouldn't it obey? With treatment like that, any dog will become irrational. Understanding that old Poochie may not be directly at fault does not make being bitten or knocked off your bike more fun. Dogs are livestock, fully the responsibility of the owner, and excepting dogs crazed by disease, can be trained to leave cyclists alone. I like dogs very much and accept that some adjustment to their particular natures and quirks is necessary if they are to be around. I do not accept being knocked off my bike by some giant hound. If the owner will not control the dog, I will.
and so on, but like the whole book, worth finding and if you do enjoy bike riding, reading...

[fat and old]

I must have missed the part where it said he was on a training ride...

What difference does it make? He said he was doing about 30kph, whether he was technically training or not is immaterial. I often ride at speeds greater than 30kph on our local shared path, but obviously only when I have clear visibility and I wouldn't ride past a ped at that speed. So the question is whether doing that speed was wise at that time and place. Whether he was training or just commuting or whatever doesn't come into it.

I don't think it does, I was responding to fat and old who's comments seemed to imply that it did (and that he was on a training ride, which there was no reference to in the original article).

That's true enough. The only hint is the reference to "ironman training" and his photo, with a P3 cervelo. Maybe he wasn't riding that. I can only make useless assumptions based on the little information given. Still, as SC points out, training ride or not is immaterial. Appropriateness of the speed at that point is.

I'm not excusing the idiot with the dog mind. If I had my way, poor bloke would have had a busted shoulder and ribs after t-boning the dog owner, not the dog.