trailgumby wrote:Re the unhelmeted kids... is riding a bike on a shared path really that dangerous?
Firstly - that's not the point. AT ALL. Are you really going to defend children not wearing bike helmets? Especially when the point I'm making is that they're riding too quickly, unpredictably and wrecklessly to be riding without a helmet.
Secondly, I don't know how you can question whether riding on a shared path used by dozens, if not hundreds of school kids, parents, and general public is not potentially dangerous. Of course it's potentially dangerous when there's so much traffic.
jasonc wrote:fatdudeonabike wrote:I live right next to a shared paths, and not far from a school.
great
a) none of them know how to use bells, which is problematic because I walk my dog on this shared path, and they give me no warning to get her out of their way. they're putting both themselves and my dog in danger.
do you keep the dog on your left?
Yes, she's always on my left. If I'm given warning that someone is coming up behind me, she's always standing right next to me on my left.
But their stupid parents are sending them off without helmets!
are you sure it's just not the kids leaving the helmets at home whilst the parents aren't watching???
I have no doubt that this occurs with a lot, if not the majority the kids I'm talking about. Maybe I'm overly judgmental cos I don't have kids - but wouldn't you want to make sure they were wearing their helmet before they left?
high_tea wrote:
Well, if the kids are passing on the non-dog side, that's probably sensible. When passing dog-walkers, I assume that the owner is stupid and the dog stupid and vicious. So, among other things, I pass on the owner side, whatever that happens to be*. I also leave enough room for Doggy and Owner to flap around and carry on generally. IME 50% of pedestrians instinctively go left and 50% right, so choosing a side on that basis is completely pointless.
Announcing myself, whether by bell, voice or squealing brakes often leads to me being treated to a little vignette I have mentally titled "Things That Happen When You Think Imprinting a Canine Onto a Primate Is a Bright Idea". Y'know, growling (from both parties), madly winding in the 10m lead, capering (again, both parties), babbling nonsense etc etc. I take the view that it's better all round if I avoid this theatre when I can. I shouldn't wonder the kids round your area have taken the same view. There are, of course, good dogs and good owners, but I have no way of knowing when I'm dealing with one until afterwards.
However, announcing myself is unavoidable when dog+owner takes up the whole path. They have a perfect right to do so (well, pedestrians do and I'll grudgingly accept that this right extends to their pets), but it makes it harder for all involved. It's often possible to walk Doggy off the path, which makes it easier for all involved.
My advice (approximate value: 0) is: walk Doggy off the path where possible. Also, let go of your bell-ringing expectation, for reasons I've canvassed before and can't be bothered canvassing again (tl;dr: bell-pinging is neither necessary nor sufficient for safe riding). Instead, expect that people pass you safely and courteously. If the kids aren't leaving enough room or something, that's a legitimate complaint for mine, but you don't mention this.
* On the grounds that I'd rather deal with the creature who stands a chance of being locked up and dosed to the eyeballs on Haloperidol or Clozapine or something if they start abusing random strangers, trying to bite them and defecating in public.
It's nothing personal mate, but there is very little, if anything in this post that I agree with.
- On a shared path, there is ABSOLUTELY merit to using a bell.
- Why do you assume the worst? If you assume that, you're likely to take a cavalier attitude to both rules and norms surrounding these paths, and any accident is more likely to be your fault. Why not assume that people do the right thing? If I'm doing the right thing, and you crash into into my dog, who is standing on my left, and you hurt her - not only are you in the wrong, but you're going to cop a friggen beating. Assume that I will do the right thing - ring your bell, she'll be standing on my left, and you can pass on the right as you're supposed to do. If I do the wrong thing, and you do the right thing - at least you can defend yourself in court. (by the way, to add a little bit of context, I'm talking about a 5kg Jack Russell - if you crash into her because you do the wrong thing, you kill her)
- I know not everyone does this - but you can only follow the established rules and norms, and act according to that - because your guessing makes you every bit as unpredictable as any pedestrian or animal. I thought we were the ones who wished that everyone would follow the road rules as well as the majority of us do? (sans the occasional red-light runner) By choosing to encounter unpredictability with unpredictability, you are furthering the chaos. Predictability is all I want as a rider, and as a pedestrian.
- I do not, and have never bought this argument that bell ringing leads to abuse. Since I got my bike, I'm just about to crack 1000km. Half on roads, half on shared paths as I got out to see different areas. I've encountered very few people who don't act appropriately when they're dinged (ie shifting slightly to the left if required), and I've encountered no one so stupid as to think that me dinging them for their own safety is offensive.
- you're arguing that these kids have the experience, maturity and presence of mind that they're consciously riding in an unpredictable manner deliberately - despite the fact that they don't have the experience, maturity or presence of mind to ride in a (slow enough) manner for a path full of kids, parents, prams and animals. It doesn't add up.
In any case, you've missed the point - the main point was about helmets. The secondary point was the one about these kids not riding to conditions - they're riding way to fast with no regard for any other users of the path. Forget that it's an animal.
Please don't construe this as a "kids these days" rant - as I said, I'm thrilled that these kids are riding their bikes to school!
I just wish they would do it sensibly, and being conscious of not only the safety of others, but their own safety.
More than anything else, I wish that they would wear helmets, and have some regard for other users of the path.
Because in the meantime, I'm now restricted to when I can and can't walk my dog - that's the action that I'll be taking. I just won't be walking her at those times of they day any more.
It's a similar mentality to that of motorists who, when catching up to another vehicle (motorised or otherwise), think that it's terribly important to overtake IMMEDIATELY, regardless of whether it's actually safe to do so. Just so we're even-handed here: I've also seen cyclists practising the "must-overtake/cross/turn-NOW" routine on roads or shared paths.
- they were walking three wide across the full width of the path. I rang my bell then waited for their response. They moved left and were apologetic (not needed really of course). On my part, ringing the bell is to let people know I am there and then I wait for their response. It's all about a bit of manners - on both parties.