The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

NASHIE
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby NASHIE » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:21 pm

Sorry cant seem to link just the video, article irrelevant. The first section he rides 'road side path' with good door clearance is optimum IMO. I cant see the reason for changing to Path side apart from design aesthetics ?

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:11 pm

NASHIE wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:
NASHIE wrote:
Geez you cant do anything but cruise slowly. Thats just mad design having PSP between parking and footpath :roll:

It's better than having the parking between the bike path and the footpath :(


Agree to disagree. There is no way i would ride that path at any pace other than sub 15kph. How many peds and kids running from cars to path must get cleaned up. If you have bikes in the oncoming lane you have no get out of jail card, you just have to hit the ped/door etc. A dual lane path like this road side is also very poor, but a single lane bike path road side gives much vision ie your only looking out for doors/peds on your left
welcome to Sydney. much harder to get infrastructure than other Australian cities. this is pretty much the only design and route we could get under the political circumstances. the alternative was no bike path
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby NASHIE » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:44 pm

mikesbytes wrote:welcome to Sydney. much harder to get infrastructure than other Australian cities. this is pretty much the only design and route we could get under the political circumstances. the alternative was no bike path


Ok understood. I probably shouldnt comment as Im not a commuter and would take the road anyway, but was just suprised to them in heavy ped area. I can only think of Bulwer Street in Highgate (Perth) that has similar sections of one way bike path between path and parking, but i think is fairly low ped count. Again i guess they are aimed more at low speed commuters, which if it gets people on bikes is a good thing.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby pj » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:28 pm



Another street wanderer :P

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:49 pm

NASHIE wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:welcome to Sydney. much harder to get infrastructure than other Australian cities. this is pretty much the only design and route we could get under the political circumstances. the alternative was no bike path


Ok understood. I probably shouldnt comment as Im not a commuter and would take the road anyway, but was just suprised to them in heavy ped area. I can only think of Bulwer Street in Highgate (Perth) that has similar sections of one way bike path between path and parking, but i think is fairly low ped count. Again i guess they are aimed more at low speed commuters, which if it gets people on bikes is a good thing.

Your comments are not wrong, a much better solution would of been to build the bike path along Alexandria canal but unfortunately that's under NSW State control

I have been surprised how much increase in utility and commute cycling has happened in Sydney each time a separated bike or shared path is put in, even ones with all the faults discussed here. If the NSW Govt had a positive attitude towards cycling then we would see a much bigger cycling community but instead we see a reduction in cycling numbers despite the increases resulting within the COS
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby pj » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:36 am

So I'm going to nominate myself today for cycling outside the lane in the hard shoulder, this was scarier than it looks on the video.....


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Philistine » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:47 am

pj wrote:So I'm going to nominate myself today for cycling outside the lane in the hard shoulder, this was scarier than it looks on the video.....


That looks like a really horrible bit of road to negotiate. I would be tempted to take the lane at the point where the video begins - either that or stay away altogether!

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:20 pm

Philistine wrote:
pj wrote:So I'm going to nominate myself today for cycling outside the lane in the hard shoulder, this was scarier than it looks on the video.....


That looks like a really horrible bit of road to negotiate. I would be tempted to take the lane at the point where the video begins - either that or stay away altogether!


Probably a bad choice by pj, but the real "dumb" is the road design. It's a very bicycle-unfriendly road; with no alternative provided for cyclists (or pedestrians for that matter) as far as I can see.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby pj » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:34 pm

Yes it's a terrible piece of road, will definitely be taking the lane next time!

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:27 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
Philistine wrote:
pj wrote:So I'm going to nominate myself today for cycling outside the lane in the hard shoulder, this was scarier than it looks on the video.....


That looks like a really horrible bit of road to negotiate. I would be tempted to take the lane at the point where the video begins - either that or stay away altogether!


Probably a bad choice by pj, but the real "dumb" is the road design. It's a very bicycle-unfriendly road; with no alternative provided for cyclists (or pedestrians for that matter) as far as I can see.

There's a shared bike path on the right hand side that has its shortcomings. I switched from the road to the bike path when it was put in but I understand the temptation to remain riding on the road
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby pj » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:05 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:
Philistine wrote:
That looks like a really horrible bit of road to negotiate. I would be tempted to take the lane at the point where the video begins - either that or stay away altogether!


Probably a bad choice by pj, but the real "dumb" is the road design. It's a very bicycle-unfriendly road; with no alternative provided for cyclists (or pedestrians for that matter) as far as I can see.

There's a shared bike path on the right hand side that has its shortcomings. I switched from the road to the bike path when it was put in but I understand the temptation to remain riding on the road


Thanks i didn't even know there was one there as I only ever travel eastward and hadn't noticed it. I do hate shared paths though.........

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Philistine » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:21 pm

I was trundling along the bike path today when I came upon two children, a little boy about 3 or 4 on a scooter and a little girl of perhaps 5 or 6 on a tiny bike. They both had an air of curiosity mixed with bewilderment, as though they had just been teleported down from the mother ship. I wondered where their parents/responsible adults were, and, as I inched my way carefully past them, I noticed a lone pedestrian about 300 metres away. I was able to observe as I drew closer that his childrens' needs (I assume they were his children) had been unable to compete with the irresistible attraction of his mobile phone. I gave him a few words of character assessment as I passed - and I don't think it even registered!

What property of these strange little boxes allows them to eat peoples brains?

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:36 pm

Philistine wrote:I was trundling along the bike path today when I came upon two children, a little boy about 3 or 4 on a scooter and a little girl of perhaps 5 or 6 on a tiny bike. They both had an air of curiosity mixed with bewilderment, as though they had just been teleported down from the mother ship. I wondered where their parents/responsible adults were, and, as I inched my way carefully past them, I noticed a lone pedestrian about 300 metres away. I was able to observe as I drew closer that his childrens' needs (I assume they were his children) had been unable to compete with the irresistible attraction of his mobile phone. I gave him a few words of character assessment as I passed - and I don't think it even registered!

What property of these strange little boxes allows them to eat peoples brains?

Is this a self nomination? Whatever happened to allowing kids freedom, or parents for that matter? Instead you took it upon yourself to judge this person and abuse them based on your very limited observation and interaction.

Judgements such as yours and helicopter parenting are just one of the many factors keeping children off bikes. As a 6 year old I was riding my bike around the neighbourhood without any parental observation...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Philistine » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:30 am

human909 wrote:Is this a self nomination? Whatever happened to allowing kids freedom, or parents for that matter? Instead you took it upon yourself to judge this person and abuse them based on your very limited observation and interaction.

Judgements such as yours and helicopter parenting are just one of the many factors keeping children off bikes. As a 6 year old I was riding my bike around the neighbourhood without any parental observation...

Human, you are are better than this. I was there - you weren't! These children behaved as though they had never been on their respective machines before, nor on a bike path. Helicopter parents would not let their young children ride bikes. Normal parents would teach them how to ride, and stay close to them while they were learning. The idiot I observed was too far behind them to be any use at all if anything bad happened, and he was hypnotized by his mobile phone to the extent that he didn't even see me coming, and my comment (which was far more restrained than he deserved) washed right over him.

This particular bike path is 3 km long with lines of trees separating it from a main road 20 metres away on one side and the river 10 metres away on the other. The trees are not dense enough to form a barrier, and both road and river are easily accessible from the path. In addition, there is a toilet block at one end, and this is an assembly point for some strange men. I hope I am not being too judgmental by calling them "strange".

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:39 am

Philistine wrote:Human, you are are better than this. I was there - you weren't!

Quite correct. But all I see is you busy judging and harassing another person who is doing no harm to you or anybody else.

Philistine wrote:These children behaved as though they had never been on their respective machines before, nor on a bike path.

Amazing you could tell that in your brief period of interaction.

Philistine wrote:Normal parents would teach them how to ride, and stay close to them while they were learning.

So you have YOUR definition of 'normal' and if parents don't fit that you feel you have the right to admonish them. Yep I get it now, your way and nobody else's.

Philistine wrote: The idiot I observed was too far behind them to be any use at all if anything bad happened

"Anything bad". :roll:

Philistine wrote:In addition, there is a toilet block at one end, and this is an assembly point for some strange men. I hope I am not being too judgmental by calling them "strange".

Oh dear. :roll:

Seriously get a grip. Children at that age are more than capable of being 'free range'. (Not that I'm suggesting free range is a mere 300m away from a parent.)

A couple years older but the same point applies:
Image

Not only have we reduced the freedom and independence of our kids, but 'we' are now busy admonishing random strangers for it.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:27 am

human909 wrote:
Judgements such as yours and helicopter parenting are just one of the many factors keeping children off bikes. As a 6 year old I was riding my bike around the neighbourhood without any parental observation...


Ditto.
On the mighty repco dragster with sturmey-archer 3 speed hub and t-bar shifter on the top tube 8) 8)
No helmet either :o :)

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Philistine » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:56 am

human909 wrote:
Not only have we reduced the freedom and independence of our kids, but 'we' are now busy admonishing random strangers for it.

We have reduced the freedom and independence of our kids because the world has changed and we have had to react to those changes as best we can. I don't like it any more than you do.

I wasn't thinking "paedophile alert" when I saw these kids, that aspect occurred to me later. I was thinking "these kids are blocking the bike path and they have no idea what they are doing". And, yes, I had no problem arriving that this conclusion in the few seconds available to me. When I am riding on the road, I have to make similar assessments about motorists on a regular basis in order to protect myself. If you need to dot every "i" and cross every "t" before you can form such a judgment, that says more about you than it says about me.

Regarding the admonishing of random strangers, leave the kids out of it for a moment. I approach a pedestrian walking down the middle of the bike path. I ring my bell, he ignores me, probably because his nose is jammed in his mobile phone. I can just about squeeze by, but, if he steps sideways at the wrong moment, I will clean him up. I slow to walking pace and inch past him - and give him a well-deserved spray on the way past! If you would have kept quiet, I will nominate you for beatification (or is it canonization), Saint Human.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:29 am

Reaffirms my decision to avoid cycling paths.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:53 pm

There you go Philistine, now aren't you glad you posted?
It is good to remember that forums do not breed friend ships but only opinions.
This without prejudice. Folks are free to write what appeals to them.

Me I have had similar things happen, though I haven't bothered to speak to the folks concerned. Lucky for me I ride often early and miss these events. I get the plastic toy tractors and three wheelers.... The parents blissfully collecting wild edibles near the river. The bikes are across the path and the kids are playing around the area. It is an outing for the kids but absolutely only a play ground to keep them busy whilst the parents forage. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I came around a blind corner once and fortunately slow enough to stop for a lady with a pram across the path and dunking the child in a rivulet cutting the path. Knowing the area and expecting that water caused me to go with caution.

To me a six year old child unattended by 300 mtrs leaves them susceptible to a stray dog, a snake, a fall off their bike and a scrape then screaming for a parent. I mean they are on the path one minute and off exploring the next.

During a walk down a path to Lillypilly Gully Near Wilson's Promontory a 6 year old (from memory) was lost walking with his parents. He just ran ahead and vanished off the park and died alone in the scrub. I am not saying the bush is as enclosed where I ride but it is certainly a possibility. I also know that this is an rare instance...just saying.

I get the differing opinions of course but not the venom in your castigation. I consider that a 7 year old child was taken into a toilet and assaulted just the other day and at a busy dance centre, in the presence of the mother.
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:06 pm

Philistine wrote:We have reduced the freedom and independence of our kids because the world has changed and we have had to react to those changes as best we can. I don't like it any more than you do.

The world hasn't changed. (Well not in terms of increased danger for children.)

People's fears have changed. And you seemed to have bought into it hook line and sinker.

Philistine wrote:I wasn't thinking "paedophile alert" when I saw these kids, that aspect occurred to me later.

:roll: The fact that you even mentioned strange men hanging around toilets and paedophiles shows that you are completely ignorant on the topic. "Paedophile alerts", if you are worried you should be looking at those closer to home, those entrusted with the care of kids.

Misperceptions about child sex offenders
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ (2005) Personal Safety Survey, of all those who reported having been victimised sexually before the age of 15 years, 11.1 percent were victimised by a stranger. More commonly, child sexual abuse was perpetrated by a male relative (other than the victim’s father or stepfather; 30.2%), a family friend (16.3%), an acquaintance or neighbour (15.6%), another known person (15.3%), or the father or stepfather (13.5%; see Figure 1)

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:15 pm

warthog1 wrote:Ditto.
On the mighty repco dragster with sturmey-archer 3 speed hub and t-bar shifter on the top tube 8) 8)
No helmet either :o :)


Oh dear it is a surprise either of survived childhood with you on your dragster and met on my BMX. I bet you had a few scraped knees or even toes if you wore thongs while riding! I did. I'm surprised I didn't bleed to death before getting home and the emergency treatment of a bandaid.

outnabike wrote:During a walk down a path to Lillypilly Gully Near Wilson's Promontory a 6 year old (from memory) was lost walking with his parents. He just ran ahead and vanished off the park and died alone in the scrub. I am not saying the bush is as enclosed where I ride but it is certainly a possibility. I also know that this is an rare instance...just saying.

A very rare instance. The child was intellectually disabled and common factor in children going missing in the bush. (http://bsar.org/searches/)

But really the risks are extraordinarily low.

If philistine thinks children should be cottoned wooled then I suppose that is his choice and his opinion. But publically admonishing a stranger is really surreal. Not to different to those reporters who did the same to a mother riding with he child trailers.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby NASHIE » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:45 pm

Philistine wrote:I was trundling along the bike path today when I came upon two children, a little boy about 3 or 4 on a scooter and a little girl of perhaps 5 or 6 on a tiny bike. They both had an air of curiosity mixed with bewilderment, as though they had just been teleported down from the mother ship. I wondered where their parents/responsible adults were, and, as I inched my way carefully past them, I noticed a lone pedestrian about 300 metres away. I was able to observe as I drew closer that his childrens' needs (I assume they were his children) had been unable to compete with the irresistible attraction of his mobile phone. I gave him a few words of character assessment as I passed - and I don't think it even registered!

What property of these strange little boxes allows them to eat peoples brains?


Even parents close by kids that age struggle to keep them on left of path, but hay, good on them getting outdoors. Yes adults on phones is major issue. Young kids getting very little eye contact etc etc from parents glued to phones. Its going to be interesting to see how this generation of kids develope socially.

warthog1 wrote:
human909 wrote:
Judgements such as yours and helicopter parenting are just one of the many factors keeping children off bikes. As a 6 year old I was riding my bike around the neighbourhood without any parental observation...


Ditto.
On the mighty repco dragster with sturmey-archer 3 speed hub and t-bar shifter on the top tube 8) 8)
No helmet either :o :)


The thing that gets me is the change in mentallity in parents that did as we back in the day, but dont let there kids experiance the same today. The same creeps existed then, could be argued even more so. We have had many raised brows from friends on what we let our kids do ie exacly what we did. My eldest daughter is about to head off for levers week down south. And one of the friends mum is all worried her 18yr is going to be gang raped :roll:. My bigger concern would be her driving 300ks with my daughter who has only had her licience for 4 months :)

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:12 pm

human909 wrote:
Oh dear it is a surprise either of us survived childhood with you on your dragster and me on my BMX. I bet you had a few scraped knees or even toes if you wore thongs while riding! I did. I'm surprised I didn't bleed to death before getting home and the emergency treatment of a bandaid.


I tore open my elbow on a grumpy old neighbours brick retaining wall.
Smashed into the wall when I came down a hill too fast and didn't make the corner.
Took his letter box off the wall, so he wasn't too happy. :lol:
7 stitches later that was the worst of the scraped knees and elbows.
The freedom of that childhood is under appreciated I reckon.
Last edited by warthog1 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:12 pm

As a parent I can conduct preventative actions much more effectively if I am with the children, rather than being 300mtrs behind playing with my phone. Yet its exactly the same children's activity.

Today I walked a coastal trail with my kids and the older one (4 years) got to scramble over rocks and a ship wreck (the younger one was busy checking out rock pools for crabs etc). She got more out of it having a parent with her as there were a couple of maneuvers that she wasn't able to do, it required me to lift her thru. While I saw other children in the area, they were with fit active parents, I didn't see any unfit parents and the majority of parents are unfit. Its the children of unfit parents who are missing out on adventures like today's.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Letting children have independence is provides a different experience from parents being right next to them.

Just as you don't want to be judged and abused for riding a bicycle on the roads or taking your kids rock scrambling, I'm sure the parent in being discussed here doesn't want to be randomly abused by a passing stranger.


As cyclists one of the biggest things we are a minority because of our actions. We are abused and we get threats to our safety because of the different choices we make. I find it sad that people proudly post their intolerances of others. It smacks of hypocrisy.

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