The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:04 pm

Kraeg wrote:I might have been a dumb cyclist the other day at a cross roads with 3 stop signs (ie; a U shape). I got to the bottom stop sign and stopped, indicating right. A car arrived at the stop sign to my left, then a car at the one to my right. No vehicle was approaching from the top non-stop road.
Then I got confused... who goes first? Do I because I got there first, and we leave in the same order? Or isn't it I give way to the vehicle to the right, the vehicle to my left gives way to me (as I am on their right), then they get to go? Neither of them were making a move so I did the right hand turn... but that's not right, is it?


I'll take a stab with qld rules but I don't understand what you mean by a U shaped intersection! Do you mean like a + but the top road doesn't have a stop sign and the left, right and bottom roads do? And you are turning right but the other 2 drivers are going straight? I'll assume you do.

* First off everybody has to stop no matter what as they are stop signs.
* Rule 67 doesn't have any effect because you have no oncoming traffic coming from the top road (which you'd have to give way to anyway), so all 3 of you are needing to give way to each other.
* So rule 69A now applies which means you pretend there are no stop signs at this point and move on to standard give way rules in division 2 as if there were no stop signs/give way signs (interesting side note here is that give way signs don't have priority over stop signs, other than the need to actually come to a stop at a stop sign).
* So rule 72(5)(a) now says if you are turning right you have to give way to any vehicle approaching from your right. So you would give way to the driver to your right.
* The driver to your left would give way to you as you are on their right under 72(2).

So your second guess is correct. But rule #1 is give way if you're going to crash otherwise :)

find_bruce is wrong in that you don't stop reading the rules at 67(3) :) 69A says to interpret the rules in division 2 as if there were no stop or give way signs.
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by BNA » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:41 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Kraeg » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:41 pm

Yeah, that's the description (map photo on previous page). I don't know the intended directions of the other vehicles, I don't think I noticed (definitely not to my direction as it's one way for non-bicycle vehicles).

So it seems I was in the wrong, so next time I'll... actually, maybe I'll just avoid that intersection altogether (I rarely use it anyway apart from turning left across the ped crossings into the reverse door zone lane). As I took the turn I was expecting a horn or some verbal abuse, but got none.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:37 pm

Was it really necessary to overtake and save a few seconds when you almost collided with a ped... Got a nice facial shot afterwards as well :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:04 pm

So, riding up Epping Rd. cycleway on the way to St. Leonards. There's a car crash near East Ryde, the cops have their car and the two involved up on the cycleway with plenty of room to get through. Quick toot on the Hornit and people move out of the way. All good.

Travel a bit further, a bunch of council workers cleaning up the path and doing some gardening. A quick toot on the Hornit, they move out of the way. All good.

Travel up to the Pac. Hwy and some guy is doing Tai Chi in the middle of the cycleway. 2 bike lanes and a pedestrian lane and he takes up all of them. A quick toot of the Hornit - nothing. More tooting - nothing. No other bikes or peds around, shout a loud "oi" as I'm slowing - nothing. I manage to ride by his outstretched arm with about a cm to spare. I felt like giving him a high-five as I passed and congratulating him on his deep dedication to stupidly standing in the way, no matter what. He should try it on the road next time.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:24 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
Kraeg wrote:I might have been a dumb cyclist the other day at a cross roads with 3 stop signs (ie; a U shape). I got to the bottom stop sign and stopped, indicating right. A car arrived at the stop sign to my left, then a car at the one to my right. No vehicle was approaching from the top non-stop road.
Then I got confused... who goes first? Do I because I got there first, and we leave in the same order? Or isn't it I give way to the vehicle to the right, the vehicle to my left gives way to me (as I am on their right), then they get to go? Neither of them were making a move so I did the right hand turn... but that's not right, is it?


I'll take a stab with qld rules but I don't understand what you mean by a U shaped intersection! Do you mean like a + but the top road doesn't have a stop sign and the left, right and bottom roads do? And you are turning right but the other 2 drivers are going straight? I'll assume you do.

* First off everybody has to stop no matter what as they are stop signs.
* Rule 67 doesn't have any effect because you have no oncoming traffic coming from the top road (which you'd have to give way to anyway), so all 3 of you are needing to give way to each other.
* So rule 69A now applies which means you pretend there are no stop signs at this point and move on to standard give way rules in division 2 as if there were no stop signs/give way signs (interesting side note here is that give way signs don't have priority over stop signs, other than the need to actually come to a stop at a stop sign).
* So rule 72(5)(a) now says if you are turning right you have to give way to any vehicle approaching from your right. So you would give way to the driver to your right.
* The driver to your left would give way to you as you are on their right under 72(2).

So your second guess is correct. But rule #1 is give way if you're going to crash otherwise :)

find_bruce is wrong in that you don't stop reading the rules at 67(3) :) 69A says to interpret the rules in division 2 as if there were no stop or give way signs.

InTheWoods, remember how the uniform road rules are not completely uniform - yep rule 69A is a Queensland special. It makes perfect sense, I agree with the application as you have set it out and in my opinion is the law that ought to apply, but unfortunately it doesn't apply in this case.

Agree with you 100% that rule #1 is do whatever is necessary to avoid a collission. Fortunately on this occasion all was good.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:39 pm

find_bruce wrote:InTheWoods, remember how the uniform road rules are not completely uniform - yep rule 69A is a Queensland special. It makes perfect sense, I agree with the application as you have set it out and in my opinion is the law that ought to apply, but unfortunately it doesn't apply in this case.

Agree with you 100% that rule #1 is do whatever is necessary to avoid a collission. Fortunately on this occasion all was good.


Gah, stupid non-uniform uniform road rules... :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bychosis » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:49 pm

Baalzamon wrote:Was it really necessary to overtake and save a few seconds when you almost collided with a ped... Got a nice facial shot afterwards as well :)


maybe unnecessary, but it didn't look to bad to me. The pedestrian didn't seem to flinch. I would hazard also a fairly common situation in my PSP experience. It is often easier to accelerate a little than to slow and wait.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby marinmomma » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:25 am

Not me this time :D , but some person riding a BSO on Logan Road this morning sails straight through a red light into traffic doing a u-turn in front of him....caught up to him as he was struggling big time to get up the small incline into our estate, reminded him that it's a good idea to stop for red lights, otherwise he could be killed.... :(

I was going to give him what for about making the rest of us look bad however he looked in a world of pain so I took the softer approach.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:02 am

bychosis wrote:
Baalzamon wrote:Was it really necessary to overtake and save a few seconds when you almost collided with a ped... Got a nice facial shot afterwards as well :)


maybe unnecessary, but it didn't look to bad to me. The pedestrian didn't seem to flinch. I would hazard also a fairly common situation in my PSP experience. It is often easier to accelerate a little than to slow and wait.

It is something that I experience a couple of times every morning - cyclists from behind threading dangerously closely at speed between me and oncoming cyclists. I no longer flinch either as I have become conditioned to it. Peds are no different.

In the video I would interpret the distance between Baalzamon and the cyclist when cutting in to be significantly less than appearance due to the short-focal-length of the camera.*** By the same token, the speed of the cyclist is not as great as it appears.

That guy cut it fine. if he does it every day, then inevitably someone will be injured.

***See Baalzamon's thread "How to dismount a unicycle" where I appear to be fairly sprinting away from him from the same effect.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wizardhat » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:05 am

Something that's irritating me lately: The Goodwill foot bridge between QUT and Southbank is half closed with signs directing cyclists to dismount; perhaps 10% get off their bikes, the rest try to weave their way through. Is reading and following instructions so hard? It's not like it's very far to walk. :?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Oxford » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:39 am

cue roadies complaining about footwear this, footwear that, etc.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:52 am

Oxford wrote:cue roadies complaining about footwear this, footwear that, etc.


Isn't the answer "use another bridge"
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Kenzo » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:57 am

jasonc wrote:
Oxford wrote:cue roadies complaining about footwear this, footwear that, etc.


Isn't the answer "use another bridge"

Gotta build one first :wink:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:23 am

MikeyD360 wrote:
blkmcs wrote:Or we could just slow down and take care when we see a dog on the shared path.


This is the problem right here.
We ride on the roads and drivers tell us we are a danger to ourselves and should ride on the footpath/PSPs.
We ride on PSPs and are a danger to dogs and pedestrians.
We are left with the only "acceptable" method of cycling being recreational pottering at a lowly 10km/h along a PSP on our mountain bikes with reflective vests, mirrors hanging off our bars and helmets, whilst watching the birds and whistling tunes from Mary Poppins.

I personally ride for fitness, and also to get from A-B in place of a car. Therefore moseying along a shared path slowing down for every Tom, Dick and "Rover" is not suitable as I need to be able to travel at 35-40km/h for it to be worthwhile/enjoyable.

Thats precisely why the whole idea of creating PSPs everywhere is not the answer to safer cycling infrastructure as this only suits one section of the cycling community.

good post, I liked the Mary Poppins analogy :lol:
PSPs are a no go zone for me for that reason. No dedicated cycleways where I live. I think I would get very annoyed with pedestrians on them if there were.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Carriage » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:27 am

How do you guys respond to the argument that the reason we don't like to ride on shared paths is because it limits our speed, is the same reason drivers don't like us on roads?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:31 am

Carriage wrote:How do you guys respond to the argument that the reason we don't like to ride on shared paths is because it limits our speed, is the same reason drivers don't like us on roads?

if a motorist suggests i ride on a shared bike path instead of the road, i suggest they take the bus instead of drive their car.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:33 am

Carriage wrote:How do you guys respond to the argument that the reason we don't like to ride on shared paths is because it limits our speed, is the same reason drivers don't like us on roads?

don't see it as an argument at all. Some drivers see us as having no right to be on the road which is clearly wrong.
If you want to travel at speed shared paths are best avoided, simple statement of fact.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:39 am

warthog1 wrote:
MikeyD360 wrote:
blkmcs wrote:Or we could just slow down and take care when we see a dog on the shared path.


This is the problem right here.
We ride on the roads and drivers tell us we are a danger to ourselves and should ride on the footpath/PSPs.
We ride on PSPs and are a danger to dogs and pedestrians.
We are left with the only "acceptable" method of cycling being recreational pottering at a lowly 10km/h along a PSP on our mountain bikes with reflective vests, mirrors hanging off our bars and helmets, whilst watching the birds and whistling tunes from Mary Poppins.

I personally ride for fitness, and also to get from A-B in place of a car. Therefore moseying along a shared path slowing down for every Tom, Dick and "Rover" is not suitable as I need to be able to travel at 35-40km/h for it to be worthwhile/enjoyable.

Thats precisely why the whole idea of creating PSPs everywhere is not the answer to safer cycling infrastructure as this only suits one section of the cycling community.

good post, I liked the Mary Poppins analogy :lol:
PSPs are a no go zone for me for that reason. No dedicated cycleways where I live. I think I would get very annoyed with pedestrians on them if there were.


Perhaps we should potter along at 10km/h and it might get rid of that "lycra loonie" image that the media, shock jocks and car drivers love to portray.

As for me, no thanks - I prefer to go between 30-45km/h or faster if it's safe to do so on wide pedestrian/bike shared use roads (a closed off service road). If pedestrians are about I'll go slower - but very fortunately there are relatively few of them in my area. Most people prefer to use their big SUV for a quick 500m trip to the shops or anywhere else. :wink:

The real solution is to build bicycle "highways" as they are doing in Copenhagen which are dedicated to bicycles only and aimed at the serious commuter cyclists who need to go somewhere on their bicycle quickly. They are even setting the traffic lights up so that if you keep to a certain speed, you'll get green lights everywhere. They reckon it will save $60,000,000 from the health budget because people will become much more healthy.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby AndyTheMan » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:58 am

warthog1 wrote:
MikeyD360 wrote:
blkmcs wrote:Or we could just slow down and take care when we see a dog on the shared path.


This is the problem right here.
We ride on the roads and drivers tell us we are a danger to ourselves and should ride on the footpath/PSPs.
We ride on PSPs and are a danger to dogs and pedestrians.
We are left with the only "acceptable" method of cycling being recreational pottering at a lowly 10km/h along a PSP on our mountain bikes with reflective vests, mirrors hanging off our bars and helmets, whilst watching the birds and whistling tunes from Mary Poppins.

I personally ride for fitness, and also to get from A-B in place of a car. Therefore moseying along a shared path slowing down for every Tom, Dick and "Rover" is not suitable as I need to be able to travel at 35-40km/h for it to be worthwhile/enjoyable.

Thats precisely why the whole idea of creating PSPs everywhere is not the answer to safer cycling infrastructure as this only suits one section of the cycling community.

good post, I liked the Mary Poppins analogy :lol:
PSPs are a no go zone for me for that reason. No dedicated cycleways where I live. I think I would get very annoyed with pedestrians on them if there were.


I'm the same.

I've had two run ins with pedestrians this weekend on a local shared cycle/footpath. The entire length of the shared path is actually signposted as part of the 'NSW Coastal Cycle Trail' and is used by cyclist nearly non-stop - it would not be uncommon to pass a dozen other cyclists every few kms.

I usually stick to the road, but my missus has recently acquired a road bike (after being injured running, its a non-impact way for her to get her exercise). She can ride the MTB fine, but is getting used to the new cleats/shoes, gears, brakes, seat etc. So we are dawdling along the cycle path at all of about 10km/h - we are in no rush...

I come up behind some pedestrians, walking in the middle of the path, I'm travelling at barely walking pace - as in, I am barely keeping enough momentum to stay upright...I politely cycle up to them and say 'excuse me there' - all I want them to to is shuffle over a bit, my main interest is so my wife can pass safely.... I am ready to follow up with a 'lovely morning'...but get stopped in my tracks by the fools complaining about how 'us cyclists' are dangerous....

Seriously, its not like I bolted past at 35km/h - like I said I'm barely moving (literally, the average speed for our ride from the Garmin was 12km/h) .... some people just astound me.....
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:59 am

Good luck getting to speeds of 30+ on the Copenhagen bike hwy.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:08 am

AndyTheMan wrote:Seriously, its not like I bolted past at 35km/h - like I said I'm barely moving (literally, the average speed for our ride from the Garmin was 12km/h) .... some people just astound me.....

really? you need to get out more :mrgreen:

i had a woman go postal on me after i passed her at a leisurely pace. some people are just nuts, or selfish.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:31 am

jules21 wrote:
Carriage wrote:How do you guys respond to the argument that the reason we don't like to ride on shared paths is because it limits our speed, is the same reason drivers don't like us on roads?

if a motorist suggests i ride on a shared bike path instead of the road, i suggest they take the bus instead of drive their car.


*Presses "LIKE" button* :mrgreen:

Gonna use that, thanks Jules.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:48 am

jules21 wrote:
AndyTheMan wrote:Seriously, its not like I bolted past at 35km/h - like I said I'm barely moving (literally, the average speed for our ride from the Garmin was 12km/h) .... some people just astound me.....

really? you need to get out more :mrgreen:

i had a woman go postal on me after i passed her at a leisurely pace. some people are just nuts, or selfish.


We aren't supposed to be on the "shared paths", we aren't supposed to be on the roads, where should we be? For shared use paths, some pedestrians sure don't like to share do they? I try to set the right example by being careful and keeping to my side...

Witness the one reckoning "his bike broke down" for the reason I stopped and dismounted (that was what she explained to the little kid).

Wouldn't have been anything to do with the her group straying all over the path and leaving me no option but to stop and dismount or fall over. :roll: Would have been better to take the child by the hand and pull him over out of the way.

And it was hardly like I was going too fast, I'd just gone up a climb and wasn't in any position to go fast anyhow - my legs were tired. :oops:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby AndyTheMan » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:35 pm

Whilst I'm here I had better complain about the CYCLIST who did fly past 6 inches from my elbow whilst I was out running yesterday..

Again on a shared path, its about 2m or maybe 2.5m wide.

I'm 10kms into a 20km training run. I have headphones in, so don't hear bikes approaching unless they call out. As such I maintain safety (and courtesy) to everyone by sticking firmly to the very left 50cms of the track - leaving a good 2 metres for people to pass.

I'm jogging along, in my own world - and some nutter on a roadie passes me doing approx 25-30km/h (the path is long and flat and straight, would be easy to sit at above 30 odd clicks for around 10kms) - was literally within a few inches of me....WHY??? Why when you have another 2 metres of track, all bitumen sealed, smooth as a babies bum, with 100 metres of visbility would you pass someone so close at that speed - i mean, even if I had put my hand in my pocket to pull out a gel I would have perhaps collected him as he passed....
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:13 pm

Bet the same guy would be the first to complain when cars shave him on the road.
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