The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 6930
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:58 am

InTheWoods wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:I'm flying down a hill - Strava segment (why else?!) - I see a guy with his 2 kids right at the T-Junction at the bottom of the hill. I ring my bell from a good 75m away and start to slow down (booooo!) - he grabs his kids, moves them off the path... then when I'm 20 metres away, one of the kids comes back onto the path...


Well done with the weight loss. Strava on a shared path = don't do it, or at least stop strava-ing if you see anybody else on it, especially kids. It is a path, not a racetrack.


Never stops the guys and girls flying down the M7 shared path with pedestrians on it.

I do agree, when there are kids around, you've got to slow down - you've got to take it easy around them because they will do unpredictable things. They are kids, it's what they do at that age. By the way, no matter how cautious you are, someone will always find something you did wrong. :wink:

My strategy around kids is to slow right down, go past them carefully, say hello and thanks to the parents and on my way. It's interesting how many people on here very strongly advocate slowing right down to go past pedestrians, yet how few people you see doing it in reality. Most people still go by at 25km/h, rather than slowing down to 10km/h.

User avatar
herzog
Posts: 2174
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:50 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:04 pm

+1 to the earlier comments regarding Stravapests on shared paths.

Don't be one. It's dangerous for everyone, especially kids.

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22729
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:14 pm

I generally ride past pedestrians a full 1.5m away on the other side of the path, having rung the bell, doing 15-20kmh.
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 6930
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:16 pm

herzog wrote:+1 to the comments above regarding Stravapests on shared paths.

Don't be one. It's dangerous for everyone, especially kids


I might just suggest that many of the favourite strava segments are "shared use". We should be careful in defining the ones that are really very wide cycling tracks where pedestrians are allowed, or the others which are footpaths that are called shared use paths. I don't mind the people going fast on the M7 - it's built for the purpose and everyone knows what everyone else is doing. You take it easy on the S-bends, but you can go for it in most other places because it is open and wide.

The Prospect dam hill is a "shared use path", but in reality, you never see a single pedestrian on it. Plus it is two road lanes wide. I think it's quite acceptable to go up that hill at 37km/h+ average speed. I freely admit doing it on a few occasions, though I leave the 60km/h descent to those more brave (who also have wheels less affected by cross winds). Okay, that makes me a strava-pest, then so be it. If the conditions are clear, I'm going to go for it up there, though the descent, I won't do that. But I won't do it on narrow shared use "footpaths".

il padrone wrote:I generally ride past pedestrians a full 1.5m away on the other side of the path, having rung the bell, doing 15-20kmh.


You are lucky you can do that, most paths are not wide enough for that. So when Ms. Caro of SMH complains about not having an umbrella space for people passing her, it's because the path might not be wide enough for it sometimes.

User avatar
herzog
Posts: 2174
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:50 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:50 pm

Sure but we will all rue the day a Strava like tool is adopted by the WRX/Skyline crowd for public road segments.

Imagine riding a popular twisty 1 lane road and Danny d'head in a hotted up WRX, completely focussed on beating a strava time, emerges from a corner in front of you at 140kph, runs wide, wrong side of the road, two wheels off the shoulder... Fishtailing out of control towards you... You have a fraction of a second to react.

Is this the end game of the arms race being fueled by Strava? I hope not.

Keep the racing for climbs, tracks and or sanctioned events.

fatdudeonabike
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:14 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:06 pm

In light of the comments here, I've been and checked the Strava data.

Firstly, I'll explain the intersection (all numbers are guesstimates!). From 2 directions, it's high speed, cos it's down hill. From the other direction, this intersection is on a plateau at the top of a short, sharp rise - you can't see the top of the plateau til you're about 10-15 metres away. If I, as the "intersecting rider" am not concentrating, it's a really dangerous intersection because the very good, strong riders will still be doing 45km/hr going up the rise. So depending how high up the hill I am, I can see them for longer than they can see me.
And it's not really a t-junction, because to keep going down the hill is only about a 45 degree corner (roughly). So as long as you have your wits about you and are aware of other riders, there's no reason you can't take it at high speed.
It's also pertinent to note that this intersection isn't really very close to houses. Certainly, there's a myriad of bike lanes much closer to the residential areas that would also be much more kid friendly. Given these kids were roughly 2 and 4, I dont even know what they were doing there - they certainly didn't ride. The younger one couldn't have ridden to the end of their driveway.

In any case - dad was ignorant to let them park right in the middle of this intersection in the first place. But that wasn't actually the problem - the problem was he got them to the side of the path - and then let the older one ride straight back in front of me.

I've looked at the Strava data. From 43km/hr at 90 metres to stopping I started braking (which is also when I would've rung the bell). At 40 metres before stopping, I was down to 18km/hr. So I think my speed was ok. But my speed went from 18km/hr to 0km/hr between 8.31 and 8.32km.

So the kid pulled in front of me even later than I thought - it was within about 10 metres (if we believe Strava to be accurate), and they were only about 3 metres "in front of" the rail that I went over.
I really dont think I did anything wrong (apart from the braking error). I'm aware of kids (the paths closer to my house are full of kids and unleashed dogs), and I was riding to the conditions of kids on the path that the dad was moving to the side. I just dont understand why he let them start riding again before I'd gone past. The kids aren't my problem - I love seeing kids out riding their bikes. The problem was that the dad is the essence of this thread - he was completely ignorant as to what was going on around him, or what could be going on around him. Why would you EVER park in the middle of an intersection? The fact that he had kids with them doesn't make him any less ignorant IMO.

And for the record - someone earlier, that hadnt bothered to read my post, suggested I'd yelled at the kids. I didnt - and all I said to the dad was something along the lines of "that was a suboptimal place to park your kids, get 'em off the intersection"

(I need a camera... that would've been much easier than explaining it...)

User avatar
VRE
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:14 am
Location: Ringwood North, VIC, Australia

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby VRE » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:22 pm

il padrone wrote:I generally ride past pedestrians a full 1.5m away on the other side of the path, having rung the bell, doing 15-20kmh.

Same here for the bell and the speed, although the 1.5m can be problematic. Given the typical width of most "shared" paths in Melbourne, I'd struggle to find that much clearance when overtaking a pedestrian, so I just keep as far clear as is possible. I don't see any value in speeding past pedestrians, because it only cuts a second or two off my total trip time, so it's not worth the risk and the bad PR, plus it's just bad manners.

User avatar
Lukeyboy
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:29 pm

herzog wrote:Sure but we will all rue the day a Strava like tool is adopted by the WRX/Skyline crowd for public road segments.


Who says they don't already have their own methods for comparing times. Motec is one system that can record GPS, elevation, speeds, steering angles, break and accelerating percentages, gforces, heart rate, oil temp/pressure, engine temps, engine mapping, fuel mapping, diff mapping, synced to video systems..... well pretty much anything to be recorded has been around for ages and its just as easy as plugging in and downloading all the data from a usb port. Motec is just the most popular but there are lots and lots of car data systems out there :roll:

wellington_street
Posts: 1630
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:25 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:33 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:(I need a camera... that would've been much easier than explaining it...)


google street view helps

User avatar
herzog
Posts: 2174
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:50 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:35 pm

So all they need now is a global web based leaderboard with segments such as Bobbin head road, or the Old Pacific Hwy. Lovely.

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22729
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:39 pm

jules21 wrote:
woe is me :)

No clear give way signage there. Some might say, in the absence of this it would be "give way to the right" :?:
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
jules21
Posts: 9998
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:46 pm

il padrone wrote:No clear give way signage there. Some might say, in the absence of this it would be "give way to the right" :?:

which i did, anyway. but of course, i highly doubt that was his rationale for sailing through :)

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22729
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:57 pm

No, I know. It looked like he had a good dose of "tunnel vision". Or maybe just "don'tgiveafragitis" :roll:
Last edited by il padrone on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

fatdudeonabike
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:14 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:58 pm

wellington_street wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:(I need a camera... that would've been much easier than explaining it...)


google street view helps


You're asking a lot of me to figure out how to use that - I don't think i even have the 'thing' downloaded to be able use google maps.

And also, it's not really on a street - it kind of is, but its more spitting out of a nature reserve. I wouldn't even know how to look for it on street view.

human909
Posts: 7271
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:08 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:Hit the rear brakes (learned my lesson!) managed to go round the kid...


My advice to everyone that is willing to listen is to use the FRONT brake only (when on solid dry sufaces). This ensures that you are able to achieve maximum braking forces without skidding and get you used to using the most important brake.

Using both brakes means you will almost certainly be braking less than maximum and will not gains the skills to be able to brake hard in emergencies.

Using rear brake ONLY increase stopping distance by approximately FIVE times.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 6930
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:14 pm

herzog wrote:Sure but we will all rue the day a Strava like tool is adopted by the WRX/Skyline crowd for public road segments.

Imagine riding a popular twisty 1 lane road and Danny d'head in a hotted up WRX, completely focussed on beating a strava time, emerges from a corner in front of you at 140kph, runs wide, wrong side of the road, two wheels off the shoulder... Fishtailing out of control towards you... You have a fraction of a second to react.

Is this the end game of the arms race being fueled by Strava? I hope not.

Keep the racing for climbs, tracks and or sanctioned events.


Have you heard of a thing called Facebook? That's all they need to organise street racing. And they do it already. Come to Western Sydney, park yourself on the Cumberland Highway around Wentworthville area at around 9:00pm through to 1:00am on Friday through Sunday evening - you''ll see plenty of evidence of that. Drivers with hotted up muscle cars that are excessively noisy who deliberately have extreme difficulty maintaining traction - even at a standstill when the cars seem prone to smoking their tyres. And just now, 3:08pm today, hoon driver in C63 AMG just went tearing off down the Cumberland Highway. :roll: Unfortunately, us people who live in the area have to deal with this all the time, nobody will deal with these hoon drivers.

I'd be all for banning the C63 AMG in particular. They seem to be most popular for the well-to-do hoon drivers in my area.

User avatar
Lukeyboy
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:45 pm

herzog wrote:So all they need now is a global web based leaderboard with segments such as Bobbin head road, or the Old Pacific Hwy. Lovely.


I suggest you look into the Japanese street racing/performance speed scene from the early to late 90's. Maybe even did into the 80's. Bogan levels here haven't even scratched the surface of that stage yet in terms of speeds and production standards.

IIRC this video was first recorded in 1998... which was only just a few years before Strava really took off :lol: . Videos like this and others of street racing were distributed amongst friends/groups and by direct to video magazines way before the internet came along as a mainstream media like it is today. Even in the late 90's internet forums and chat rooms had people displaying how fast they have been.

User avatar
Summernight
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:13 pm

InTheWoods wrote:With an AZ you wouldn't have thought that :)

Maybe he only had one of these:
Image


Haha. I have one of those on my messenger bag near my chest (bright pink I got as a joke Christmas present because I broke my previous bell ringing it too much and the new freebie bell I got from the City of Melbourne is woefully soft and nobody even looks if I try to ring it. :lol: ):
Something like this: http://th09.deviantart.net/fs18/PRE/f/2 ... yStock.jpg

The cyclist pressed what looked to be a button, connected to a line that looked like it went to the top tube.

jasonc wrote:if you just bleep the trigger, you won't get full volume. takes a good press to get it at full volume.


I will never know now, not unless the same cyclist goes past, bleeps his horn of some variety and I manage to chase after him and ask him whether it is an AirZound. I'm going to stick to my uneducated belief that the AirZound is friendly. :P

I had the usual suit cross Collins Street this morning during peak hour without looking- he did a check for cars and then sauntered diagonally across the road from the middle tram tracks. I knew he wouldn't look when he crossed the bicycle lane because he was literally looking in the air like he was off with the fairies once he'd satisfied himself that he wouldn't be hit by a car. He got a shout from me (because said freebie bell really is just there to comply with the rules now) before he could do any damage to anyone and all was right with the world. His and mine.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 6930
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:43 pm

Air Zound devices are higher pitched, but they have about the friendliness factor of a TGV sounding its horns at high speed. Unbelievable how loud the Air Zound is! :shock: I don't think you'd win many friends using it on pedestrians but car users are really the intended audience. I suppose it can be quieter.

You probably did come across an air-zound. :)

Bells required by the law are amazing, never knew such a device could be so effective. People wearing noise cancelling headphones hear it over their music... Err, maybe not!

Air Zound devices perhaps should be required by law to be used to warn cars and peds of your presence. That would remove my reluctance to use one. Hey, I'm required to use it by law!! :wink:

User avatar
Summernight
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:43 pm

g-boaf wrote:Air Zound devices are higher pitched, but they have about the friendliness factor of a TGV sounding its horns at high speed. Unbelievable how loud the Air Zound is! :shock: I don't think you'd win many friends using it on pedestrians but car users are really the intended audience. I suppose it can be quieter.

You probably did come across an air-zound. :)

Bells required by the law are amazing, never knew such a device could be so effective. People wearing noise cancelling headphones hear it over their music... Err, maybe not!

Air Zound devices perhaps should be required by law to be used to warn cars and peds of your presence. That would remove my reluctance to use one. Hey, I'm required to use it by law!! :wink:


Mmmhmm. I've seen all the people here extol the AZ's virtues and have looked into them but I haven't had cause to warrant making my bike uglier with a canister under the toptube (vanity will kill!). Although I probably already look a fright in my bright pinks and reds with my silly hot pink horn strapped to my chest so going an extra uglier step probably won't hurt. :)

In the shop I thought my joke girl's horn was loud, but it doesn't have the air bladder big enough to hold an extended noise like the AZ which is the part that grabs the attention (like ringing my old bell once would do nothing but ringing it 4-5 times would get a reaction as the constant persistent noise attracts people's attention even over their music). I tried my joke horn once to warn a pedestrian crossing incorrectly on a red over my bike lane that I was coming but I didn't have the correct squeezing pressure sorted out yet and it did nothing to make her turn her head.

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22729
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:02 pm

human909 wrote:Using both brakes means you will almost certainly be braking less than maximum and will not gains the skills to be able to brake hard in emergencies.

I actually do not see how using the rear brake as well as the front brake fully on, could possibly lead to lesser braking power :?

99% of the time I use both brakes, to varying degrees depending on the circumstances.
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22729
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:10 pm

g-boaf wrote:Have you heard of a thing called Facebook? That's all they need to organise street racing. And they do it already. Come to Western Sydney.......


Lukeyboy wrote:I suggest you look into the Japanese street racing/performance speed scene from the early to late 90's. Maybe even did into the 80's. Bogan levels here haven't even scratched the surface of that stage yet in terms of speeds and production standards.


So are you guys suggesting this makes Strava-hoonish behaviour OK??
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
InTheWoods
Posts: 1755
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:20 pm

il padrone wrote:
human909 wrote:Using both brakes means you will almost certainly be braking less than maximum and will not gains the skills to be able to brake hard in emergencies.

I actually do not see how using the rear brake as well as the front brake fully on, could possibly lead to lesser braking power :?

99% of the time I use both brakes, to varying degrees depending on the circumstances.


The idea is that if you are using the front brake at its maximum effectiveness, the rear tyre has virtually no weight on it and is about to lift off the ground. Braking with it will add little stopping power. It won't lead to less braking power though... unless due to its very low amount of traction you lock it up and your rear starts to overtake your front :)

jasonc
Posts: 8616
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:22 pm

I'm an advocate on the AZ. The advantage for me is I can use it further away. Using it further away means both you and the pedestrian has more time to react. And then obviously if they don't react, you can give them a blast with the AZ and tell them to get rid of their stupid headphones and to pay attention.
Image

User avatar
herzog
Posts: 2174
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:50 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:03 pm

jasonc wrote:I'm an advocate on the AZ. The advantage for me is I can use it further away. Using it further away means both you and the pedestrian has more time to react. And then obviously if they don't react, you can give them a blast with the AZ and tell them to get rid of their stupid headphones and to pay attention.


A couple of things Jason.

1. Pedestrians are perfectly entitled to wear headphones. For some people going for a walk while listening to their music is a simple pleasure in life.

2. Pedestrians are under no obligation to get the hell out of your way on a share path. Much the same as when you occupy a lane on the road and a car is honking you from behind, you are under no obligation to move over for him.

Save the AZ for the road big fella.

What you are doing is basically the cycling equivalent of this motorist:


Return to “General discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], gorilla monsoon, jasonc, thomashouseman