The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:10 am

wellington_street wrote:
What a moron. Glad there's no peds around at that time.



You know what I see from that video.

The camera rider and the other rider in yellow, riding too slow for the guy on the mountain bike. So he decides to pass, and the other 2 decide to be heroes up the pace to not let him pass easily.

It is obvious from the video that they both started to increase the pace once the mountain bike rider got beside them. Then wouldn't let him move in front. Their ego got in the way. All morons in that video.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:13 am

skull wrote:Then wouldn't let him move in front. Their ego got in the way. All morons in that video.

That was what I saw.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:28 pm

jules21 wrote:
merlin6014 wrote:I used to have a bell on my bike......
when I was 12

i have a bell on (some of) my bikes. it's useful for riding shared paths. if i want more cred as a rider, i go and do more intervals or hills. no one's going to be impressed that you don't have a bell.


Its all good, I'm only having a joke :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:29 pm

skull wrote:
wellington_street wrote:
What a moron. Glad there's no peds around at that time.



You know what I see from that video.

The camera rider and the other rider in yellow, riding too slow for the guy on the mountain bike. So he decides to pass, and the other 2 decide to be heroes up the pace to not let him pass easily.

It is obvious from the video that they both started to increase the pace once the mountain bike rider got beside them. Then wouldn't let him move in front. Their ego got in the way. All morons in that video.


Agreed
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:35 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
twizzle wrote:Lost it with a ped today. He told me off for not ringing my bell before passing him. I unpolitely launched and told him that if he took his #%^**£ earphones out he would have £%#}[*^ heard me call "passing". I had a bad week at work, he picked the wrong time to set me off. But seriously, 90+% of them wouldn't hear a 747 up their bottoms these days due to earphones/headphones/smartphone usage, and to blame others for their own lack of awareness just does my head in. No, I don't have a bell, and when I used to have one it didn't work either. Airzound is now officially on the shopping list, I don't care if they crap themselves.


I only just noticed where you're located! Do you ever ride in or around Palmerston? Cos if so, I might have seen you!

It's probably not you, cos the dude that's nearly run me over twice doesn't even yell anything to me. (Since taking up cycling, I don't use ear phones on shared paths any more).

The bloke doing the Tour de Gungahlin doesn't have a bell either (nor is he even wearing a helmet sometimes). It makes me really, really mad.

A bell weighs nothing. A bell comes with your bike to meet Australian standards, and if it doesnt, the seller is obliged to provide you one for free. And if you forget, what are they, like a couple of bucks?

I realise that you called out for him - but get yourself that AZ dude, because in my view, rather than assuming how loud his music was or how inattentive he was, you should consider your own wrongdoing in riding a bike that doesn't meet Australian standards. There's a reason that a bell, and not a voice, is the requirement for the standard.

This is less about you, its more about this cyclist that doesn't care that he's in a heavily residential area, and that kids and animals use that path. So don't take too much offence.

But I've heard all the justifications - and there's no excuse for not having a bell. To not have a bell and to expect everyone else to use paths on your terms is arrogant and it lacks respect. (And if people want to use the "some road bikes aren't sold with bells", then firstly - see above, get them to give you one. Secondly, ride on the roads, not on shared paths.)


Shrug. I rock a bell on my commuting bike, but I have zero faith in its effectiveness as a warning device. It's really there as a figleaf lest the police decide to take on the great harm being caused by bell-less cyclists :roll: . It happens every so often around my neck of the woods for some reason. My chances of being heard are no better than fifty-fifty and a frequent reaction is for the pingee to move in some random direction, which doesn't really help. In particular, old folk are shocking for not hearing bells and will like as not berate me for being a young whippersnapper or something as doing anything helpful like not take up the entire path while chatting about I don't quite know what. I ping seldom and then only when I'm pretty cocky I won't clean them up no matter what fool thing they do. Calling out is roughly as effective, maybe a little better. That's not saying much.

So I don't know about no excuse. I could strap a chocolate tea-kettle to the handlebars and get the same result, I reckon, only I'd have some chocolate to snack on. Sure, it's the law and the law is the law is the law, but I doubt it's a law that would really be missed.

Dealing with pedestrians is fine. Dealing with rude people is tiresome, so too stupid people, but that's life. Bells, IME, do not make it easier to deal with any of these groups.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby CatCanRide » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:27 pm

Bells are good, voice is good. I tend to use a combination of both as neither seem to be totally effective, but the most effective thing that I have found alerts peds to your presence is noisy brakes - although you can get some dirty looks when they think you are out of control.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:41 pm

I'm quite a slow beginner rider - I've done the Lake Burley Griffin loop in Canberra for the first time today.

I hope the people that say calling out is just as effective as bells are louder than the people calling out today - I had (I think) 4 people calling out to me... but if you're talking to the person you're riding with, or if you actually had to take some evasive action, none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.

On the flipside, I've belled quite a few joggers today - I realise this particular shared path is different, because cyclists, joggers and pedestrians all know to look out for each other, but the responses to my bell-ringing were always very polite. I couple of waves, a couple of thank yous...

I just dont get it. There's no street cred in not having a bell - there's even less street cred in knocking someone over because you thought your voice was effective when the limited experience I've had today suggests that it's nowhere near as effective. Three of the four people I'm talking about were lycra wearers, which is only significant because lycra-wearing tends to indicate to me a slightly more serious rider in most cases - these people should know better.

So on a busy shared path that I've ridden today, with many people apparently riding Giro d'LBG, it just makes no sense whatsoever to ride that path without a bell and to think your voice is anywhere near as effective.


On topic - a GoPro is officially on my shopping list. I just can't handle crazy cyclists doing 60km/hr trying to duck through gaps that aren't there between me on one side of the path and pedestrians coming the other way on the other side of the path. All I would've needed to do today was throw an elbow up and I could've hit 2 of them. Such was their lack of respect for other users of the path, I almost wish I had. They were clearly expecting everyone else to cater for whatever dick-measuring contest they were involved in - it was inconsiderate, and it was rude.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:53 pm

merlin6014 wrote:Its all good, I'm only having a joke :D

bells are no joking matter son :evil: :mrgreen:
fatdudeonabike wrote:On the flipside, I've belled quite a few joggers today - I realise this particular shared path is different, because cyclists, joggers and pedestrians all know to look out for each other, but the responses to my bell-ringing were always very polite. I couple of waves, a couple of thank yous...

joggers are usually good. they're part of the "fitness club". there are some pedestrians who just see you as the enemy though, being on a bike. you learn to ignore the crazy ones. or post them on YT :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:08 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:...none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.


But you did-by your own admission- hear them. QED.

You have-again, by your own admission-limited experience. Why are you so unwilling to learn from those who have so much more? Jeez, I've been into this cycle commuting lurk since 1996 and I've still got shedloads to learn. From any and everybody who has knowledge I lack.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:16 pm

Where do you get one of those little old skool cycling horns that make the "di-do-di" noise (you know like the one on the iphone text tone aptly enough called "horn"). I would be proud to sport such a horn. :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:19 pm

merlin6014 wrote:Where do you get one of those little old skool cycling horns that make the "di-do-di" noise (you know like the one on the iphone text tone aptly enough called "horn"). I would be proud to sport such a horn. :D


This might come close...

Available at BigW for one.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:...none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.


But you did-by your own admission- hear them. QED.

You have-again, by your own admission-limited experience. Why are you so unwilling to learn from those who have so much more? Jeez, I've been into this cycle commuting lurk since 1996 and I've still got shedloads to learn. From any and everybody who has knowledge I lack.


And as I say, if I had've been talking to my friend, or if I'd actually needed to move over or anything, their voice would've been useless. If I'd been talking, I wouldnt have heard them, if I'd needed to do anything, I didn't have time.

And on your second point, I'm yet to hear a single good reason as to why having a bell on your bike is such a burden - so what am I supposed to be learning here? That I should remove my bell for the street cred when, in actuality, the only people who think this adds to street cred are douche bags? (And I thought I was doing this for fun, for exercise, and to beat the traffic - I didn't realise that image was supposed to be a consideration)

I don't need to learn that a voice is as effective as a bell, because quite simply - it's not. The road bike riders that are generally the ones that don't have a bell are travelling too fast for their voice to be of any use whatsoever.

If I'm travelling at 30km/hr and I bell someone, they can hear me from 50 metres. If they panic, I still have time to look after both of us. If I shout at them, they can hear me from maybe 10 metres, and if they panic, we're both screwed.

I may have only been riding for months rather than years, but I've ridden a lot, and I would've used my bell hundreds of times since I started - and this notion that people supposedly take offence to a bell is rubbish. People are happy that you were considerate of their safety.

There's a billion people here with cameras on their bikes - I'd love it if someone could show me a single example of a ped cracking it because they were belled.

Or if anyone can provide me a decent reason not to have one - which no one has.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:21 pm

I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:28 pm

Righto then, I've officially given up, your constant harping on "street cred" pretty much says it all and the standard "douche bag" comment generically thrown at people whose opinions differ from your speaks volumes :roll:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:32 pm

biker jk wrote:I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.


Some hold their positions as part of a passive-aggressive statement.

Mind you on share paths they aren't obliged to get out of your way if they are walking along the path. There is not rule about one person having a greater right of the path, so really a cyclist passing has to slow down and wait until it is clear to safely pass.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:40 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.


Some hold their positions as part of a passive-aggressive statement.

Mind you on share paths they aren't obliged to get out of your way if they are walking along the path. There is not rule about one person having a greater right of the path, so really a cyclist passing has to slow down and wait until it is clear to safely pass.


Pedestrians need to keep left. When they are walking two abreast and blocking the right hand side of the path I will call "bike back" and then "passing on your right". Of course it's perfectly sensible to slow down and wait until the pedestrian has moved over before passing. A bell won't help achieve a safe pass but your voice will.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:40 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
merlin6014 wrote:Where do you get one of those little old skool cycling horns that make the "di-do-di" noise (you know like the one on the iphone text tone aptly enough called "horn"). I would be proud to sport such a horn. :D


This might come close...

Available at BigW for one.


had a couple of those. both died (plastic cracked) due to weather.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:52 pm

biker jk wrote:
Pedestrians need to keep left.


Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:03 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:Pedestrians need to keep left.
Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.

it should be. not just so i can keep my avg. speed up, but i've lost count of how many times i've approached them walking across the whole path, safely slowing down, then watched them jump out of their skins in shock when they realise i'm behind them. my favorite is when they recover from the shock and yell to SLOW DOWN, when i'm just waiting patiently at walking pace behind them.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:04 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:...none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.


But you did-by your own admission- hear them. QED.

You have-again, by your own admission-limited experience. Why are you so unwilling to learn from those who have so much more? Jeez, I've been into this cycle commuting lurk since 1996 and I've still got shedloads to learn. From any and everybody who has knowledge I lack.


And as I say, if I had've been talking to my friend, or if I'd actually needed to move over or anything, their voice would've been useless. If I'd been talking, I wouldnt have heard them, if I'd needed to do anything, I didn't have time.

And on your second point, I'm yet to hear a single good reason as to why having a bell on your bike is such a burden - so what am I supposed to be learning here? That I should remove my bell for the street cred when, in actuality, the only people who think this adds to street cred are douche bags? (And I thought I was doing this for fun, for exercise, and to beat the traffic - I didn't realise that image was supposed to be a consideration)

I don't need to learn that a voice is as effective as a bell, because quite simply - it's not. The road bike riders that are generally the ones that don't have a bell are travelling too fast for their voice to be of any use whatsoever.

If I'm travelling at 30km/hr and I bell someone, they can hear me from 50 metres. If they panic, I still have time to look after both of us. If I shout at them, they can hear me from maybe 10 metres, and if they panic, we're both screwed.

I may have only been riding for months rather than years, but I've ridden a lot, and I would've used my bell hundreds of times since I started - and this notion that people supposedly take offence to a bell is rubbish. People are happy that you were considerate of their safety.

There's a billion people here with cameras on their bikes - I'd love it if someone could show me a single example of a ped cracking it because they were belled.

Or if anyone can provide me a decent reason not to have one - which no one has.


The way I look at it, using a bell to try and avoid a collision is using it wrong. A bell is about as effective as voice for asking people to move out of my way. That's all either is good for. The point is that when I use my bell I don't use it because I'm being considerate of other peoples' safety. I do that by overtaking safely (y'know, slowing down, giving plenty of room. Things like that). The idea that pinging a bell makes anyone safer is wrong. The fact that pedestrians (and the odd legislature!) seem to believe it too only makes matters worse.

PS I find people who bell-ping me for no good reason (and the mere fact that they're overtaking most certainly does not count as a good reason) extremely irritating. I get more of this on the bike than on foot, but it bugs me either way.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:08 pm

jules21 wrote:
skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:Pedestrians need to keep left.
Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.

it should be. not just so i can keep my avg. speed up, but i've lost count of how many times i've approached them walking across the whole path, safely slowing down, then watched them jump out of their skins in shock when they realise i'm behind them. my favorite is when they recover from the shock and yell to SLOW DOWN, when i'm just waiting patiently at walking pace behind them.

Heh. Another corker is squealing brakes (which, incidentally, focus peoples' minds like no bell I've ever used. It seems to get them thinking about the safest place they can get to in a real hurry). Plus, I really am just slowing down. :D :D :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:31 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:
Pedestrians need to keep left.


Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.


I never said it was a law but it is a rule for safe use of shared paths. In contrast, the rule about using a bell to warn pedestrians doesn't really contribute to safety versus using your voice and communicating.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/bicycles/using_shared_paths.html
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jcjordan » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:42 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.


Some hold their positions as part of a passive-aggressive statement.

Mind you on share paths they aren't obliged to get out of your way if they are walking along the path. There is not rule about one person having a greater right of the path, so really a cyclist passing has to slow down and wait until it is clear to safely pass.

There are rules in the ACT in regards to right of way on the shared paths, pedestrians have right of way.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:05 pm

jules21 wrote:
skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:Pedestrians need to keep left.
Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.

it should be. not just so i can keep my avg. speed up, but i've lost count of how many times i've approached them walking across the whole path, safely slowing down, then watched them jump out of their skins in shock when they realise i'm behind them. my favorite is when they recover from the shock and yell to SLOW DOWN, when i'm just waiting patiently at walking pace behind them.


That indeed should be a law - that pedestrians keep left. It needs to be enacted to prevent the pedestrians freaking out as you describe and actually walking into an accident with a bike-rider who has already slowed down. They need to be educated that for their own safety, they should stay left. It makes it safer and more predictable for everyone. Pedestrians can expect that the bike rider will overtake on the right, and bike riders can have some confidence that pedestrians will be on the left lane. You can be riding slowly and still get caught out by these pedestrians. A bit of legally enforced lane obedience would be good for everyone, and it'd also prevent the side-by-side bike-riders having a discussion, oblivious to everyone around them.

jcjordan wrote:There are rules in the ACT in regards to right of way on the shared paths, pedestrians have right of way.


I think we need an organised pedestrian movement to fully exercise this "pedestrians have right of way" provisions to their fullest extent. Perhaps a "pedestrian critical mass"? That might bring about a rethink of a blanket "right of way" and implement a keep left at all times unless passing, with a requirement to look behind you before you go past someone, or walk across the other lane for that matter.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:56 pm

g-boaf wrote:That indeed should be a law - that pedestrians keep left. It needs to be enacted to prevent the pedestrians freaking out as you describe and actually walking into an accident with a bike-rider who has already slowed down. They need to be educated that for their own safety, they should stay left. It makes it safer and more predictable for everyone. Pedestrians can expect that the bike rider will overtake on the right, and bike riders can have some confidence that pedestrians will be on the left lane. You can be riding slowly and still get caught out by these pedestrians.

in the eyes of some (non-cyclists), shared paths are utopian places where people come out to frolic in the open air and stop to smell the roses every 10m. imposing a duty on cyclists to yield to pedestrians is very reasonable in that circumstance.

in reality, with the critical squeeze on metropolitan transport, shared paths have become major arteries for cyclists making their way to work. they don't have time to stop and smell the roses. they don't want to wait behind pedestrians as they take a minute to work out what that dinging sound behind them is. most pedestrians on the major paths i ride on accept this - they're too busy to walk all over. but some are taken by surprise, i'm guessing those who don't use them regularly and are shocked to find them besieged by cyclists.

the law hasn't caught up, i reckon.
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