The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Kenzo » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:45 pm

jasonc wrote:
Aushiker wrote:Silly Cyclist is back ... number 2 is a good one.
Andrew


number 3 looks like the brissy river - bicentennial bikeway

it is, Crawf is here on BNA.
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by BNA » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:54 am

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fingy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:54 am

this mornings dumb cyclist overtakes late leaving little margin for error
then skids to avoid running into the girlfriend ahead.
I followed for a while, watched him pull a few risky passes on other
cyclists (overtaking on blind bends) only to wear himself out and pull
over a kilometer later :roll:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=88GpCp9S54o[/youtube]
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:57 pm

fingy wrote:this mornings dumb cyclist overtakes late leaving little margin for error


Fingy what did he say to you, I couldn't understand it?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:29 pm

ARGH!!! :evil:

So heres the context. I got my bike about a month ago - first one I'd ridden in about 14 years. I rode it for 6 days before being cut off by a car, screwing up my breaking, and going over the handlebars, ripping my leg to bits and sustaining a very minor quadriceps tear.
Three weeks off the bike - and if nothing else, that 3 weeks gave me no option but to be patient, and actually get the safety gear (high viz jersey, lights etc) that I shouldve had before riding at dusk (which is when the accident was).

I can't ride very far yet - as my username suggests, I'm huge. Actually, I discredit myself - I'm 40kgs lighter than I was in September, but only half way to where I need to be, and only 40% into where I would love to be. Despite that weightloss, and a lot of swimming/gym work and dietary changes to get me there, I'm still not very fit.
So yesterday was my first ride back. It was only 5km, but I felt good! (I felt even better for the fact that I timed it with part 2 of the Armstrong interview that I was too angry to watch after part 1!)

I'm 8km into a ride - and I can already feel the difference that quitting smoking and doing a lot of pool work over the last month while unable to ride has made. I'm flying down a hill - Strava segment (why else?!) - I see a guy with his 2 kids right at the T-Junction at the bottom of the hill. I ring my bell from a good 75m away and start to slow down (booooo!) - he grabs his kids, moves them off the path... then when I'm 20 metres away, one of the kids comes back onto the path... RIGHT in front of me. Hit the rear brakes (learned my lesson!) managed to go round the kid... but didn't quite pull up and ended up hitting the railing on the other side of the t-junction at very, very low speed. I flipped over the rail, but I was going so slow I pretty much landed on my feet.

So, no injury, no damage to the bike... but ruined my ride. And dad? He admonished the kid for not being careful - and did not even turn around to see what had happened to me, much less ask me whether I was ok.
Ruined my ride... I got up, dusted myself off, told old mate that he best remove his kids from both lanes of the bike path (or slightly less polite words to that effect...) and just had a very slow, easy ride home. I was bummed out... I rode 16km, which is a good effort for me. But I really felt like I couldve gone twice that far. I felt great, I was breathing well, I had that really enjoyable pain in my legs from a couple of little climbs. On top of all of that, the barometer of how I'm going - my water bottle - had only been accessed once, and I wouldn't have drunk 20% of it.

So frustrating! I crash on roads because cars can't see me - I crash on bike paths because stupid, ignorant pedestrians dont care that its a BIKE path, not a teach-your-stupid-kids-to-ride-a-tricycle-and-block-the-whole-thing path.
The good news is, I think by the time I can afford to order a clamp rack and a bag next weekend, and by the time it gets here, all I should really have to deal with are other cyclists on the ride to work, because if nothing else, tonights ride was enough to tell me that I'm close to being able to ride to work, even if its only every second day to begin with. (I do need to work on steering in a straight line though, lest I become the dumb cyclist. I also need to work on speed, but I know that'll come with fitness/stamina)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby lump_a_charcoal » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:03 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:I'm 40kgs lighter than I was in September


That is a stellar effort. Well done!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:03 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:I'm flying down a hill - Strava segment (why else?!) - I see a guy with his 2 kids right at the T-Junction at the bottom of the hill. I ring my bell from a good 75m away and start to slow down (booooo!) - he grabs his kids, moves them off the path... then when I'm 20 metres away, one of the kids comes back onto the path...


Well done with the weight loss. Strava on a shared path = don't do it, or at least stop strava-ing if you see anybody else on it, especially kids. It is a path, not a racetrack.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fingy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:35 pm

InTheWoods wrote:Fingy what did he say to you, I couldn't understand it?

After I said "watch what you are doing" he replied "I am watching what I am doing pal,
you just watch your-self allright" then he said some thing else I couldnt quite hear.
I think it was some kind of insult or threat it was amusing what ever it was, just his
whole conduct and cranky demeanor.
I thought about riding along side and asking for some clarification while I was following
him but my annoyance subsided, and when he had expired I passed and continued to
enjoy the morning.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Howzat » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:38 pm

Hey Dude, all this weight loss, exercise, and quitting smoking will be good for your health if you live long enough!

Yeah, kids are pretty much guaranteed to do the wrong thing at the last moment. I always take off all the speed when passing them - parents appreciate that too.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:46 pm

40 kegs less=very good :D

Poor braking technique (as you've just found out)=bad.

It's almost impossible to stop effectively on the rear brake alone, Einstein and SHELDONBROWN both say so. Time for some practice in a quiet area methinks.

If you rely on others doing the right thing as your primary safety strategy then it will end badly.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:06 am

I just lost a bit of concentration was all... I don't think its actually my braking that I need to work on, it's my rage and my concentration. When I thought I was going to pull up in time, I looked around and checked the kids were ok, and was about to give dad a serve. I wouldve pulled up comfortably engaging the front brakes (safely!) if I hadve just maintained my concentration and not prioritised having a go at the silly knobhead that did the right thing, got his kids out of the way... and then just stopped watching them.

And in fairness to me, there was nothing I couldve done about the first crash... yes, I braked to hard, and I didn't have all the safety gear I needed, but when a car looks like it sees you, but then speeds up to go round the corner and cuts you off, passing 2 metres in front of you... well, I think that, even with 10 years of experience on a bike, I'd probably do the same thing - brake as hard as I can. Going over the handlebars, tearing a quad and grazing up my leg has to be better than going into the side of a car at 30km/hr.

Thanks for the kind words everyone :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:30 am

fatdudeonabike wrote:and was about to give dad a serve.


Its a shared path. Kids do unexpected things, even with supervision. The onus is on you to avoid an accident on shared paths as cyclists are required to give way to pedestrians (no exceptions). Given kid's lack of experience, awareness and judgement, if you hit one at speed, the blame would be entirely on you. If there are kids on the path, crawl past them - you just don't know what they are going to do, even if they know you are there. Cyclists blasting past kids just become of some dumb strava segment are being highly irresponsible and no better than motorists who drive unsafely around us because they are in a hurry to get to the shops/school/next red light.

Re braking. Practice using your front brake as you will stop a lot faster than using your rear. Its just a matter of getting your weight back over the rear wheel, making sure you resist the braking force with your arms so you don't put yourself over the bars, and not braking so hard the rear wheel lifts off the ground and you flip over the bars. There may be times when rear wheel braking is better in the circumstances, but if you are just trying to stop as fast as possible, front wheel will win by a big margin every time.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:36 am


woe is me :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:58 am

InTheWoods wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:I'm flying down a hill - Strava segment (why else?!) - I see a guy with his 2 kids right at the T-Junction at the bottom of the hill. I ring my bell from a good 75m away and start to slow down (booooo!) - he grabs his kids, moves them off the path... then when I'm 20 metres away, one of the kids comes back onto the path...


Well done with the weight loss. Strava on a shared path = don't do it, or at least stop strava-ing if you see anybody else on it, especially kids. It is a path, not a racetrack.


Never stops the guys and girls flying down the M7 shared path with pedestrians on it.

I do agree, when there are kids around, you've got to slow down - you've got to take it easy around them because they will do unpredictable things. They are kids, it's what they do at that age. By the way, no matter how cautious you are, someone will always find something you did wrong. :wink:

My strategy around kids is to slow right down, go past them carefully, say hello and thanks to the parents and on my way. It's interesting how many people on here very strongly advocate slowing right down to go past pedestrians, yet how few people you see doing it in reality. Most people still go by at 25km/h, rather than slowing down to 10km/h.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:04 am

+1 to the earlier comments regarding Stravapests on shared paths.

Don't be one. It's dangerous for everyone, especially kids.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:14 am

I generally ride past pedestrians a full 1.5m away on the other side of the path, having rung the bell, doing 15-20kmh.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:16 am

herzog wrote:+1 to the comments above regarding Stravapests on shared paths.

Don't be one. It's dangerous for everyone, especially kids


I might just suggest that many of the favourite strava segments are "shared use". We should be careful in defining the ones that are really very wide cycling tracks where pedestrians are allowed, or the others which are footpaths that are called shared use paths. I don't mind the people going fast on the M7 - it's built for the purpose and everyone knows what everyone else is doing. You take it easy on the S-bends, but you can go for it in most other places because it is open and wide.

The Prospect dam hill is a "shared use path", but in reality, you never see a single pedestrian on it. Plus it is two road lanes wide. I think it's quite acceptable to go up that hill at 37km/h+ average speed. I freely admit doing it on a few occasions, though I leave the 60km/h descent to those more brave (who also have wheels less affected by cross winds). Okay, that makes me a strava-pest, then so be it. If the conditions are clear, I'm going to go for it up there, though the descent, I won't do that. But I won't do it on narrow shared use "footpaths".

il padrone wrote:I generally ride past pedestrians a full 1.5m away on the other side of the path, having rung the bell, doing 15-20kmh.


You are lucky you can do that, most paths are not wide enough for that. So when Ms. Caro of SMH complains about not having an umbrella space for people passing her, it's because the path might not be wide enough for it sometimes.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:50 am

Sure but we will all rue the day a Strava like tool is adopted by the WRX/Skyline crowd for public road segments.

Imagine riding a popular twisty 1 lane road and Danny d'head in a hotted up WRX, completely focussed on beating a strava time, emerges from a corner in front of you at 140kph, runs wide, wrong side of the road, two wheels off the shoulder... Fishtailing out of control towards you... You have a fraction of a second to react.

Is this the end game of the arms race being fueled by Strava? I hope not.

Keep the racing for climbs, tracks and or sanctioned events.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:06 pm

In light of the comments here, I've been and checked the Strava data.

Firstly, I'll explain the intersection (all numbers are guesstimates!). From 2 directions, it's high speed, cos it's down hill. From the other direction, this intersection is on a plateau at the top of a short, sharp rise - you can't see the top of the plateau til you're about 10-15 metres away. If I, as the "intersecting rider" am not concentrating, it's a really dangerous intersection because the very good, strong riders will still be doing 45km/hr going up the rise. So depending how high up the hill I am, I can see them for longer than they can see me.
And it's not really a t-junction, because to keep going down the hill is only about a 45 degree corner (roughly). So as long as you have your wits about you and are aware of other riders, there's no reason you can't take it at high speed.
It's also pertinent to note that this intersection isn't really very close to houses. Certainly, there's a myriad of bike lanes much closer to the residential areas that would also be much more kid friendly. Given these kids were roughly 2 and 4, I dont even know what they were doing there - they certainly didn't ride. The younger one couldn't have ridden to the end of their driveway.

In any case - dad was ignorant to let them park right in the middle of this intersection in the first place. But that wasn't actually the problem - the problem was he got them to the side of the path - and then let the older one ride straight back in front of me.

I've looked at the Strava data. From 43km/hr at 90 metres to stopping I started braking (which is also when I would've rung the bell). At 40 metres before stopping, I was down to 18km/hr. So I think my speed was ok. But my speed went from 18km/hr to 0km/hr between 8.31 and 8.32km.

So the kid pulled in front of me even later than I thought - it was within about 10 metres (if we believe Strava to be accurate), and they were only about 3 metres "in front of" the rail that I went over.
I really dont think I did anything wrong (apart from the braking error). I'm aware of kids (the paths closer to my house are full of kids and unleashed dogs), and I was riding to the conditions of kids on the path that the dad was moving to the side. I just dont understand why he let them start riding again before I'd gone past. The kids aren't my problem - I love seeing kids out riding their bikes. The problem was that the dad is the essence of this thread - he was completely ignorant as to what was going on around him, or what could be going on around him. Why would you EVER park in the middle of an intersection? The fact that he had kids with them doesn't make him any less ignorant IMO.

And for the record - someone earlier, that hadnt bothered to read my post, suggested I'd yelled at the kids. I didnt - and all I said to the dad was something along the lines of "that was a suboptimal place to park your kids, get 'em off the intersection"

(I need a camera... that would've been much easier than explaining it...)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby VRE » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:22 pm

il padrone wrote:I generally ride past pedestrians a full 1.5m away on the other side of the path, having rung the bell, doing 15-20kmh.

Same here for the bell and the speed, although the 1.5m can be problematic. Given the typical width of most "shared" paths in Melbourne, I'd struggle to find that much clearance when overtaking a pedestrian, so I just keep as far clear as is possible. I don't see any value in speeding past pedestrians, because it only cuts a second or two off my total trip time, so it's not worth the risk and the bad PR, plus it's just bad manners.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:29 pm

herzog wrote:Sure but we will all rue the day a Strava like tool is adopted by the WRX/Skyline crowd for public road segments.


Who says they don't already have their own methods for comparing times. Motec is one system that can record GPS, elevation, speeds, steering angles, break and accelerating percentages, gforces, heart rate, oil temp/pressure, engine temps, engine mapping, fuel mapping, diff mapping, synced to video systems..... well pretty much anything to be recorded has been around for ages and its just as easy as plugging in and downloading all the data from a usb port. Motec is just the most popular but there are lots and lots of car data systems out there :roll:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:33 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:(I need a camera... that would've been much easier than explaining it...)


google street view helps
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:35 pm

So all they need now is a global web based leaderboard with segments such as Bobbin head road, or the Old Pacific Hwy. Lovely.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:39 pm

jules21 wrote:
woe is me :)

No clear give way signage there. Some might say, in the absence of this it would be "give way to the right" :?:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:46 pm

il padrone wrote:No clear give way signage there. Some might say, in the absence of this it would be "give way to the right" :?:

which i did, anyway. but of course, i highly doubt that was his rationale for sailing through :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 pm

No, I know. It looked like he had a good dose of "tunnel vision". Or maybe just "don'tgiveafragitis" :roll:
Last edited by il padrone on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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