The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:51 am

No, really slow. Next time I will get a speed trace to satisfy the naysayers. Perhaps the other lady who also got the same problem earlier than me will also chime in... When I say slow - I mean it!

I don't take chances around these peds.
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by BNA » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:03 am

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:03 am

Howzat wrote:
jasonc wrote:a fellow commuter suggested she looked like a backpacker/tourist.

...perhaps she moved to the right from habit, being from a country where you drive on the right and overtake on the left.


absolutely possible. i didn't get pissed at her seeing that as a major possibility. was just difficult slowing down from my "11km/h"
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby 98octane » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:05 am

Howzat wrote:
g-boaf wrote:The last one - a middle aged lady couldn't hear bells, she couldn't hear me shouting at full volume when I was right behind her going at 10km/h.

Lukeyboy wrote:15m still no sign of direction of them moving so the light went to the constant 1200 lumens. 10m in front and I yell out "f****** move!"

98octane wrote: As I got within 20m, I shouted "Get out of the way!", a braked hard.

Any chance you blokes were doing say "11km/h *cough*", as jasonc would put it?


Normally I go 30-35kph up that hill. But I saw her from a while away and would have been doing only 15-20kph as I passed her. Any slower and I may as well have jogged home.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:07 am

g-boaf wrote:I don't take chances around these peds.

QFT!

An unintended and unwanted consequence of that is that some (many) will take your caution as tacit approval to do stupid things. Because you are taking such care they don't have to.

Case in point, a while back I was headed workwards along Spencer St towards a green light at a comfortable rate not exceeding R when 2 or 3 sheeple stepped out. No time for the "audible warning device" but the bellowed "SHIII-FAAAAR" coupled with the howling of overstressed, cherry red brake rotors sufficed. I came to a screaming, nosewheeling, adrenalin pumping halt with the front wheel just inside the crossing lines (still green for me BTW) and half a dozen more of them decided this was just the opportunity they needed to also redman right in front of me. :roll:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:38 am

Howzat wrote:
g-boaf wrote:The last one - a middle aged lady couldn't hear bells, she couldn't hear me shouting at full volume when I was right behind her going at 10km/h.

Lukeyboy wrote:15m still no sign of direction of them moving so the light went to the constant 1200 lumens. 10m in front and I yell out "f****** move!"

98octane wrote: As I got within 20m, I shouted "Get out of the way!", a braked hard.

Any chance you blokes were doing say "11km/h *cough*", as jasonc would put it?


Giant puddle of water, mud and rocks across the pathway at the bottom so i went across at crawling pace and dordeled up to them at about 20-25kph before slowing right down when I noticed both of them didn't show any intention of moving.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby cp123 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:52 am

does this count as a dumb cyclist event?

I was walking between jobs yesterday afternoon on a shared recreational path and it was just after a fairly good dump of rain. Oncoming cyclist coming towards me on an mtb and there's a big puddle on his "half" of the track right in front of me. my side is reasonably dryish. So i keep walking. guy looks at puddle, looks straight at me, again at the puddle and ploughs straight into it without changing a thing. So of course i'm directly next to it by now and cop a fair spray right up my right hand leg.

"gees thanks mate!" :evil: :roll:

I know it could be just a spit happens moment, but i thought surely he's going to register he'll spray me if he didn't slow. Hell, maybe i was the dumb ped for expecting him to slow?? :oops: Maybe he didn't know how deep it was? If he'd slowed down to any degree it would've just been a dribble over my shoes - but as it was i copped a fairly good degree of soaking. He would've heard my response though.... :twisted:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:53 am

Taking up the wrong lane of a cycle path= bad. I would have thought an overweight person would jump (pun intended) at the chance to do some 'interval training' and step off the wrong side of the road, wait until you've gone past and then walked faster to catch up with their friend.

And being splashed by a cyclist is just plain mean of them. At least with a cyclist doing it (as opposed to a car) you can vent your annoyance at them and know that they'll hear.

My one yesterday was a dumb lower socio-economic pedestrian man who thought it would be amusing to pretend to jump out in front of me as I'm travelling down the road at 40kph (it was a two car lane plus copenhagen bike lane road with no cars parked). He didn't get anywhere near me, he was about 2 metres from the edge of the road (he was on the footpath) and I was already level with him when he did it so there was no danger to me, but I seriously wonder about some people and what they do to get their kicks. :roll:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby redned » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:12 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:I was riding along the Kedron Brook Cycleway and two fat people took up the whole pathway coming towards me. 50m away they didn't move so I turned the light from low constant to flash. 15m still no sign of direction of them moving so the light went to the constant 1200 lumens. 10m in front and I yell out "f****** move!" to which they start ranting. I'm always courtious, slow down to pass, give plenty of room but I seriously can not stand these idiots that can't take a couple one steps to the left. Might be time to buy an airzound and just blast it while maintaing speed towards them.


Pedestrians creating an obstruction on a shared path is not only annoying but contrary to the RTC in most states. Let me encourage you to continue to be courteous, slow down to pass, give them plenty of room and politely explain to them how they can follow the RTC and add to everyone's shared path experience. The reference to fat people, idiots, the expletive and buying an airzound to just blast it while maintaining speed towards them contributes nothing.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:30 pm

redned wrote:Pedestrians creating an obstruction on a shared path is not only annoying but contrary to the RTC in most states

Got any references for that redned ? So far as I am aware, there is no obligation on a pedestrian to keep left on a shared path & a pedestrian is not obstructing the path merely by walking slowly. The person with the positive obligation is the cyclist who must give way to pedestrians on shared paths at all times. Give way means "slow down and if necessary stop to avoid a collission". Some of the references however were to pedestrians on the road and on bike paths where different rules apply. Pedestrians on bike paths is a red button for me & I am usually less courteous to them.
redned wrote:Let me encourage you to continue to be courteous, slow down to pass, give them plenty of room and politely explain to them how they can follow the RTC and add to everyone's shared path experience. The reference to fat people, idiots, the expletive and buying an airzound to just blast it while maintaining speed towards them contributes nothing.
Couldn't agree more
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby blkmcs » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:02 pm

find_bruce wrote:
redned wrote:Pedestrians creating an obstruction on a shared path is not only annoying but contrary to the RTC in most states

Got any references for that redned ? So far as I am aware, there is no obligation on a pedestrian to keep left on a shared path & a pedestrian is not obstructing the path merely by walking slowly. The person with the positive obligation is the cyclist who must give way to pedestrians on shared paths at all times. Give way means "slow down and if necessary stop to avoid a collission". Some of the references however were to pedestrians on the road and on bike paths where different rules apply. Pedestrians on bike paths is a red button for me & I am usually less courteous to them.
redned wrote:Let me encourage you to continue to be courteous, slow down to pass, give them plenty of room and politely explain to them how they can follow the RTC and add to everyone's shared path experience. The reference to fat people, idiots, the expletive and buying an airzound to just blast it while maintaining speed towards them contributes nothing.
Couldn't agree more

Causing an obstruction and not keeping left are not the same and should not be confused.

WA Road Traffic Code
201. Pedestrians not to cause an obstruction
(1) A person shall not unreasonably obstruct or prevent the free
passage of any other pedestrian or a vehicle upon a path or
carriageway.
Modified penalty: 2 PU.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:40 pm

find_bruce wrote:
redned wrote:Pedestrians creating an obstruction on a shared path is not only annoying but contrary to the RTC in most states

Got any references for that redned ? So far as I am aware, there is no obligation on a pedestrian to keep left on a shared path & a pedestrian is not obstructing the path merely by walking slowly.

Spread right across the path sure sounds like an obstruction to me. Yes pedestrians do have an obligation to make way for other path users to go by, at a safe and reasonable speed of course.

The two lukeyboy described were not doing this, or rather showed no intent to do so until they got yelled at :roll:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:01 pm

cp123 wrote:does this count as a dumb cyclist event?

I was walking between jobs yesterday afternoon on a shared recreational path and it was just after a fairly good dump of rain. Oncoming cyclist coming towards me on an mtb and there's a big puddle on his "half" of the track right in front of me. my side is reasonably dryish. So i keep walking. guy looks at puddle, looks straight at me, again at the puddle and ploughs straight into it without changing a thing. So of course i'm directly next to it by now and cop a fair spray right up my right hand leg.

"gees thanks mate!" :evil: :roll:

I know it could be just a spit happens moment, but i thought surely he's going to register he'll spray me if he didn't slow. Hell, maybe i was the dumb ped for expecting him to slow?? :oops: Maybe he didn't know how deep it was? If he'd slowed down to any degree it would've just been a dribble over my shoes - but as it was i copped a fairly good degree of soaking. He would've heard my response though.... :twisted:


Maybe he thought he was doing u a favour by not taking the "dry lane"
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:50 pm

cp123 wrote:does this count as a dumb cyclist event?

I was walking between jobs yesterday afternoon on a shared recreational path and it was just after a fairly good dump of rain. Oncoming cyclist coming towards me on an mtb and there's a big puddle on his "half" of the track right in front of me. my side is reasonably dryish. So i keep walking. guy looks at puddle, looks straight at me, again at the puddle and ploughs straight into it without changing a thing. So of course i'm directly next to it by now and cop a fair spray right up my right hand leg.

"gees thanks mate!" :evil: :roll:

I know it could be just a spit happens moment, but i thought surely he's going to register he'll spray me if he didn't slow. Hell, maybe i was the dumb ped for expecting him to slow?? :oops: Maybe he didn't know how deep it was? If he'd slowed down to any degree it would've just been a dribble over my shoes - but as it was i copped a fairly good degree of soaking. He would've heard my response though.... :twisted:


I reckon we have to accept some responsibility for our survival as well.You don't know how switched on the rider was, nor he you. And speed is subjective. The rider may have thought "oops a puddle, the ped will stop so as not to get wet, I would if I was the ped." "I will not hold him up and get through it quick."
So he maybe did you a favour and you are getting upset.

Mind you he probably did it on purpose , as there is not a lot of love around for peds, is there? :lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 pm

There are signs along the pathway, at junctions and at entry points that mention don't block the pathway and to keep to the left to allow cyclists and other peds to pass by. Corners usually have a white line to seperate the direction of cyclists/peds. I had no issue with them walking 2 abreast along the pathway but the problem I had was that they didn't show any intention at moving to allow me to get past despite looking directly at me and along the pathway. Because of all the rain we've been having parts of the cycleway/shared path now has ruts/soft mud/puddles that you don't know how deep are on the sides. There are also tree branches in alot of sections. When I'm riding along a shared pathway and peds are blocking by walking 2 abreast in the very narrow sections I always put the flash on as a extra warning. Usually most people show signs of moving over (person on the far left starts to move over/the person on the right starts walking slower to get behind their friend) even before I put it on flash with the last few showing signs of moving over when my light starts to flash. But these two people didn't show any signs of moving over or walking behind each other. Low, flash, high beam, nada. Not a single reaction from the different light settings. It was only after I was right infront of them verbally telling them to move that they showed any sign of moving to allow me past.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:33 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:There are signs along the pathway, at junctions and at entry points that mention don't block the pathway and to keep to the left to allow cyclists and other peds to pass by. Corners usually have a white line to seperate the direction of cyclists/peds. I had no issue with them walking 2 abreast along the pathway but the problem I had was that they didn't show any intention at moving to allow me to get past despite looking directly at me and along the pathway. Because of all the rain we've been having parts of the cycleway/shared path now has ruts/soft mud/puddles that you don't know how deep are on the sides. There are also tree branches in alot of sections. When I'm riding along a shared pathway and peds are blocking by walking 2 abreast in the very narrow sections I always put the flash on as a extra warning. Usually most people show signs of moving over (person on the far left starts to move over/the person on the right starts walking slower to get behind their friend) even before I put it on flash with the last few showing signs of moving over when my light starts to flash. But these two people didn't show any signs of moving over or walking behind each other. Low, flash, high beam, nada. Not a single reaction from the different light settings. It was only after I was right infront of them verbally telling them to move that they showed any sign of moving to allow me past.


The signs have little legal meaning. Only the cyclist has any strong legal requirement for keeping left, and only the cyclist can be fined for not doing so.

If offpath is unridable, (or you just plain don't feel like riding off the path) then stop on the path. You aren't required to vacate the path, and then the pedestrians will have to conform to the other side of the path to get past you. I wouldn't run a flasher or highbeam when approaching pedestrians (or even riding on a sharepath) as its unbelievably annoying.

ie about the only reaction I am likely to give to an impatient motorist who is flashing me with highbeams is a raised digit. Can't imagine that there aren't pedestrians who will feel the exact same way when presented with a cyclist doing it.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:28 am

I swivel my light with my knee so its not an annoyance approaching people with it on flash (Its still visible but its not as in your face so to say - late afternoon it shouldn't even be a problem with it still pointing straight). I'm not going to stop for two slow moving peds because they choose not to move on a 2.5-3m wide path even though they watch me as i'm riding slowly towards them. Treat other users like a pickle expect other users to treat you like a pickle. Fair game imo.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:27 am

zero wrote:The signs have little legal meaning. Only the cyclist has any strong legal requirement for keeping left, and only the cyclist can be fined for not doing so.

I mentioned this earlier - pedestrians do have a legal obligation. Not to keep left, but to keep clear.

Victorian Road Rules wrote:236 Pedestrians not to cause a traffic hazard or obstruction
(1) A pedestrian must not cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
(2) A pedestrian must not unreasonably obstruct the path of any driver or another pedestrian.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:02 am

il padrone wrote:
zero wrote:The signs have little legal meaning. Only the cyclist has any strong legal requirement for keeping left, and only the cyclist can be fined for not doing so.

I mentioned this earlier - pedestrians do have a legal obligation. Not to keep left, but to keep clear.

Victorian Road Rules wrote:236 Pedestrians not to cause a traffic hazard or obstruction
(1) A pedestrian must not cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
(2) A pedestrian must not unreasonably obstruct the path of any driver or another pedestrian.
Penalty: 1 penalty unit.

Which pedestrian is creating the obstruction ? The rule only applies to individual pedestrians not to groups, same as rule 125 for drivers in general. While it would seem that you are assuming the one on the right, there is no legal basis for that assumption. Further you omited sub-rule 3
(3) For subrule (2), a pedestrian does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another pedestrian only by travelling more slowly than other pedestrians.
If they are walking along the path they are not an obstruction for the same reason that a cyclist taking the lane is not obstructing traffic contrary to road rule 125.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:08 am

They can however be a hazard/obstruction if they block the entire path while walking along it. The onous would be on the person on the right/anyone blocking the path of oncoming cyclists/peds on the pathway.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:43 am

find_bruce wrote:Which pedestrian is creating the obstruction ? The rule only applies to individual pedestrians not to groups, same as rule 125 for drivers in general. While it would seem that you are assuming the one on the right, there is no legal basis for that assumption.

Pretty simple that if a bike is approaching on the left (legally required to keep left) and two oncoming pedestrians do not move aside then strictly speaking it is the one blocking the left* side of the path that is at fault - creating an obstruction to traffic (though morally it is up to both of the peds to work it out)

* right side from the ped's point of view.


find_bruce wrote:Further you omited sub-rule 3
(3) For subrule (2), a pedestrian does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another pedestrian only by travelling more slowly than other pedestrians.
If they are walking along the path they are not an obstruction for the same reason that a cyclist taking the lane is not obstructing traffic contrary to road rule 125.

That would certainly apply if they are walking the same direction as you are riding.... and you were walking your bike faster than they. Although I would certainly argue that two people blocking the path by walking side by side and refusing to move aside for a moment (with no good reason) to let a cyclist past are certainly against the letter of the rule. I don't think lawmakers intended that cyclists on a shared path should be forced to wheel their bikes behind pedestrians who just want to take up the path for no good reason.

[edit] Just re-read that subrule (2) more clearly. No it does not apply - see above.

But not the case with two oncoming pedestrians - refusal to move aside is obstruction, pure and simple. Walking slowly or otherwise.
Last edited by il padrone on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:55 am

il padrone wrote:Although I would certainly argue that two people blocking the path by walking side by side and refusing to move aside for a moment (with no good reason) to let a cyclist past are certainly against the spirit of the rule.


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:14 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I don't take chances around these peds.

QFT!

An unintended and unwanted consequence of that is that some (many) will take your caution as tacit approval to do stupid things. Because you are taking such care they don't have to.

Case in point, a while back I was headed workwards along Spencer St towards a green light at a comfortable rate not exceeding R when 2 or 3 sheeple stepped out. No time for the "audible warning device" but the bellowed "SHIII-FAAAAR" coupled with the howling of overstressed, cherry red brake rotors sufficed. I came to a screaming, nosewheeling, adrenalin pumping halt with the front wheel just inside the crossing lines (still green for me BTW) and half a dozen more of them decided this was just the opportunity they needed to also redman right in front of me. :roll:


I'm going to be totally cautious. I've got no interest in being knocked over by one of these disinterested, totally zoned out pedestrians. I've had that once, and it landed me off the bike for nearly 5 weeks.

Additionally, all the other people here are whinging about not going slow enough, you go slow and people still whinge. :roll: Believe me though, when I pass a pedestrian doing something silly, Im going to tell them what I think.

Common sense is the right way. And if the shared path is wide, straight and clear, then I'm going to sit on 35-40km/h. I'm not a hero though, I have limits of how quick I'll go, especially through corners.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:18 pm

Moron yesterday coming up King Street (Perth) to the lights at Wellington Street. Bus is stopped at the stop line with its right indicator on to turn right. Moron cyclist comes flying up to the red light on the right side of the bus and nearly takes out a lovely young lass who is crossing in front of the bus on the green man. Said lass was completely blindsided by the moron cyclist as the view of both parties was blocked by the bus - one does not (but perhaps should?) expect moron cyclists to come flying up on the blind side of a bus and through a red light while peds are crossing. Said moron narrowly misses her and still keeps going through the junction and a crowd of pedestrians who were also crossing on the green man, to head off down Wellington Street. Gotta love the <language>
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:34 pm

il padrone wrote:[edit] Just re-read that subrule (2) more clearly. No it does not apply - see above.



Enough of the bush lawyer antics.

Just ride with courtesy, give way to pedestrians in shared zones, and generally use common sense, and you'll get to your destination.

Incidentally I have NEVER seen a female cyclist behave aggressively towards pedestrian. It's always blokes. Interesting.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:44 pm

herzog wrote:Enough of the bush lawyer antics.

It was not me that was asking "where is the rule?"


herzog wrote:Just ride with courtesy, give way to pedestrians in shared zones, and generally use common sense, and you'll get to your destination.

I would say the same, and courtesy is a two-way street - I'd expect pedestrians to be prepared to move aside for a cyclist, when it's practical.

Pretty simple really, but there are some out there that get misguided views in their minds and behave bloody-mindedly.
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