The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:29 pm

^ Broken lines under the road rules permit overtaking when safe, the sign prohibits it, therefore they are contradictory. Contradictory signs and markings are not enforceable and any challenge in court would see the driver exonerated.

There's no "ideally" about it, the Clowncil and Main Roads have failed in their requirements.
wellington_street
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

by BNA » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:44 pm

BNA
 

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:44 pm

wellington_street wrote:Contradictory signs and markings are not enforceable and any challenge in court would see the driver exonerated.

interpretation of contradictory is more complex than you may think. a speed limit of 100 km/h does not mean you can slide off a bend at that speed, when in practice you needed to slow down to maintain grip between tyre and road. you will be fined if you try that. i doubt you'd have much success arguing the speed limit and any fine for excessive speed, despite being under the speed limit, was contradictory.
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 9141
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:50 pm

jules21 wrote:
wellington_street wrote:Contradictory signs and markings are not enforceable and any challenge in court would see the driver exonerated.

interpretation of contradictory is more complex than you may think. a speed limit of 100 km/h does not mean you can slide off a bend at that speed, when in practice you needed to slow down to maintain grip between tyre and road. you will be fined if you try that. i doubt you'd have much success arguing the speed limit and any fine for excessive speed, despite being under the speed limit, was contradictory.


That's a very different circumstance as it involves a crash.

An appropriate speed limit example would be if you are driving along and there's speed limit signs on both sides of the carriageway - the one on the left says 80 and the one on the right says 100. You couldn't be booked for exceeding 80km/h (but below 100km/h) as the signs are contradictory.
wellington_street
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:02 pm

wellington_street wrote:An appropriate speed limit example would be if you are driving along and there's speed limit signs on both sides of the carriageway - the one on the left says 80 and the one on the right says 100. You couldn't be booked for exceeding 80km/h (but below 100km/h) as the signs are contradictory.

i think this example is more clear cut than your original one. you may be right, it's outside my area of expertise really, but i suspect it's a bit subjective (i.e. subject to judicial interpretation).
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 9141
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:15 pm

jules21 wrote:
hannos wrote:This is true Jules but... (/don devil's advocate hat)
Overtaking car starts to brake to drop back. Car being passed starts to brake to let overtaker in.
End result, both cars are still side-by-side and the on-coming vehicle is getting closer...

yeah, this is the problem - drivers are often just as likely to be dangerous when they're trying to be safe. recognition of this is why you can get away with just about anything when behind the wheel - just plead incompetence.


This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?
User avatar
Summernight
 
Posts: 1870
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Undertow » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:42 pm

Summernight wrote:This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?


Why are you in the right hand lane if you aren't overtaking?

When driving on a highway there should never be an empty space to your left, if there is you should merge into it, otherwise you are breaking the law (at least in queensland). On roads with speed limits of 90+ you MUST keep left unless overtaking.
Image
Undertow
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:25 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:45 pm

I'm in left lane - overtaker is in right lane. Road rager is in right lane behind overtaker (who is not me). Similar keep left rule also applies in VIC for speeds above 80kph.
User avatar
Summernight
 
Posts: 1870
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby redned » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:14 pm

jules21 wrote:there are overarching obligations on drivers to take due care. deliberately failing to allow an overtaking vehicle back onto the left side of the road, knowing that your actions are increasing the risk of a (head-on) collision is undoubtedly a serious breach of road safety laws (often not in the road rules, i.e. in the form of careless, dangerous, culpable driving, etc.)


The responsibility to pass safely is the passers, not the passee. There is no such thing as "deliberately failing to allow an overtaking vehicle back onto the left side of the road". If it is not safe to pass, careless, dangerous, or culpable driving is in the hands of the passer.

Having said that, if I can I am going to avoid being run off the road by some idiot passing dangerously, possibly risking being rear-ended or being shunted off the road into a tree. Culpability for the dangerous situation is, however, entirely the passers. Having just had a long weekend in WA and been in the Margaret River handicap, these situations are all too common.
redned
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:45 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:41 pm

Getting back to dumb pedestrians and cyclists... I had a huge guy walking very boldly and deliberately right down the centre of the shared path, no way to go past him. He didn't care - it was very deliberate to force me (or any other bike rider) to completely stop, get off their bike and walk past.

And not too further on, Mr Pedestrian walking his dog, and the dog wasn't on a leash (in an area where that is not allowed). The dog ran straight across the front of me. :shock: Thank heavens I was only doing 15km/h. I was very tempted there and then to go straight back home. :roll: But I did end up going down to Western Sydney Regional park and back.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 4900
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby uppo75 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Undertow wrote:
Summernight wrote:This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?


Why are you in the right hand lane if you aren't overtaking?

When driving on a highway there should never be an empty space to your left, if there is you should merge into it, otherwise you are breaking the law (at least in queensland). On roads with speed limits of 90+ you MUST keep left unless overtaking.



Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queens ... -left.aspx

On single-lane roads, drivers must stay as close as practical to the left side of the road.

When the speed limit is 90km/h or more on multi-lane roads, you must not drive in the right-hand lane unless you are:

overtaking
turning right
making a U-turn
avoiding an obstacle
driving in congested traffic.

It is an offence to drive in the right lane if none of the above criteria are occurring.


So all those slow people ,in the third lane from the left, on the 4 lane Freeway, are quite legal in doing so.
uppo75
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby TigerFilly » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:55 pm

I nearly wiped out a teenager who was cycling to school this morning. He was cycling on the footpath - very busy South Road near the city where I certainly wouldn't cycle on the road, however there is an excellent bike track just a block away so he didn't need to be on the footpath, and was definitely older than 12. Anyway, he was treating all the side roads as though he had right of way crossing from one footpath to the next. I came down a side road and was aiming to stop at the line before turning left to joint the main road, and he barrelled across in front of me with just a few centimetres to spare. I didn't even see him until he was right in front of me, which I am blaming on the horrible blind spot in the Holden Cruze I drive for work. They are dreadful cars for side vision. I then watched him riding the same direction as me up South Road (about the same speed too as the traffic was so slow) and he's lucky he didn't get knocked over several more times.
TigerFilly
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:47 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:00 pm

uppo75 wrote:Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queens ... -left.aspx

On single-lane roads, drivers must stay as close as practical to the left side of the road.

When the speed limit is 90km/h or more on multi-lane roads, you must not drive in the right-hand lane unless you are:

overtaking
turning right
making a U-turn
avoiding an obstacle
driving in congested traffic.

It is an offence to drive in the right lane if none of the above criteria are occurring.


So all those slow people ,in the third lane from the left, on the 4 lane Freeway, are quite legal in doing so.



I was about to tell you you were wrong and what TMR has on the website means diddly squat and refer you to the actual road rules. But they say the same thing :P So thanks for that, I learnt something new today :)
Image
User avatar
InTheWoods
 
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby AndrewBurns » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:26 am

Rode to and from Iron cove bay for a run on Wednesday and experienced dumb pedestrians, cyclists AND motorists, the trifecta!

Before I started running my friends and I were standing on the shared path while they adjusted their music playing devices, I was keeping well to the left (there was probably 10cm of pavement on my side before the dirt) but still three teenagers on crappy looking MTB's decided they should try to pass me on the left despite the lack of space and that they shouldn't have to slow down or ring their bell/call out before they did so. I was crouched down doing up a shoelace at the time and I stood up just as they were passing, forcing two of them to run off the path onto the dirt as the ~10cm of pavement to my left had just become occupied. They proceeded to yell back at me as if it were my fault that they tried to pass me on the wrong side of the path where there was no room at speed without indicating their intentions first :?: Had half a mind to run them down because they weren't going all that fast but indifference prevailed.

On my ride home from my run I encountered a group of ~10 pedestrians walking 4 wide and a few deep across the shared path, which by itself is completely normal on this path at this time. I slowed down and called out that I was passing several times to no response. Not until I was riding at walking pace and weaving my way between them did they realise that there was somebody else trying to use the path as well. They weren't wearing headphones or anything, just far to engrossed in their own conversation.

On the same ride home I almost got SMIDSYed by a woman through a roundabout but that's for a different thread.
Image
AndrewBurns
 
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Ross » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:52 am

Summernight wrote:This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?


Courtesy. And it makes for smooth traffic flow. It's not your job to enforce road rules (road rager tailgating the overtaker), that's what the police are for. Won't hurt you to speed up a bit or slow down a bit and change lanes so they can get to wherever they are going , or at least away from you.
Image
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 4102
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:52 am

This morning along Oxford St Sydney I observed a cyclist almost take out a dumb pedestrian crossing on a don't walk sign. The dumb cyclist contributed to the near miss as he was on aero bars at the time (on a flat bar) and so couldn't slow but had to swerve to the right of the frozen pedestrian who was five metres from getting all the way across at the time.
User avatar
biker jk
 
Posts: 3115
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:16 am

I'm flying down Sylvan Rd inbound and have the green light at Jephson St although it flicks to orange as I go through. Fixie rider on a black bike with black shoes, black socks, black shorts, black shirt, and black helmet comes flying up Croydon St from my left, cuts in between the two lanes of cars waiting at the red light, and runs the red to hook in right behind me. I yell "red light d*** h****". I thought he was going to T-bone me before he slowed a touch to get in behind.

So then I get mocking comments like "You're lit up like a Christmas tree... Well better to be safe than sorry" (I have my lights on during the day and have a fluoro jersey). To which I respond "It also helps if you don't run red lights".

Further down when turning onto Land St I indicate left (as do most) to which he asks "you turning left?", I suspect mocking me for indicating.

He then passes me, and begins squeezing between the cars & cyclists waiting at the lights at Land&Patrick Lane, and on approach cuts off the cyclist in front of me causing him to lock up his rear wheel, and then was attempting to run the red squeezing past the waiting cyclists, except it went green just as he got there.

He then jumped off the footpath at North Quay & Herschel and ran that red heading down North Quay after a short bit of salmoning.
Image
User avatar
InTheWoods
 
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Boognoss » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:25 am

InTheWoods wrote:I'm flying down Sylvan Rd inbound and have the green light at Jephson St although it flicks to orange as I go through. Fixie rider on a black bike with black shoes, black socks, black shorts, black shirt, and black helmet comes flying up Croydon St from my left, cuts in between the two lanes of cars waiting at the red light, and runs the red to hook in right behind me. I yell "red light d*** h****". I thought he was going to T-bone me before he slowed a touch to get in behind.

So then I get mocking comments like "You're lit up like a Christmas tree... Well better to be safe than sorry" (I have my lights on during the day and have a fluoro jersey). To which I respond "It also helps if you don't run red lights".

Further down when turning onto Land St I indicate left (as do most) to which he asks "you turning left?", I suspect mocking me for indicating.

He then passes me, and begins squeezing between the cars & cyclists waiting at the lights at Land&Patrick Lane, and on approach cuts off the cyclist in front of me causing him to lock up his rear wheel, and then was attempting to run the red squeezing past the waiting cyclists, except it went green just as he got there.

He then jumped off the footpath at North Quay & Herschel and ran that red heading down North Quay after a short bit of salmoning.


Temporary citizen.

I'd rather be a Christmas tree (which I am when commuting) than in a pine box.
Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 6096
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Undertow » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:43 am

uppo75 wrote:
Undertow wrote:
Summernight wrote:This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?


Why are you in the right hand lane if you aren't overtaking?

When driving on a highway there should never be an empty space to your left, if there is you should merge into it, otherwise you are breaking the law (at least in queensland). On roads with speed limits of 90+ you MUST keep left unless overtaking.



Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queens ... -left.aspx

On single-lane roads, drivers must stay as close as practical to the left side of the road.

When the speed limit is 90km/h or more on multi-lane roads, you must not drive in the right-hand lane unless you are:

overtaking
turning right
making a U-turn
avoiding an obstacle
driving in congested traffic.

It is an offence to drive in the right lane if none of the above criteria are occurring.


So all those slow people ,in the third lane from the left, on the 4 lane Freeway, are quite legal in doing so.


Wow, i did not know that. I thought it was actually keep left. Does this mean I'm not allowed to get annoyed at those people in the 2nd and 3rd lanes going at 90kmh with empty lanes to their left?
Image
Undertow
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:25 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Saturnstarzz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:59 am

3 peaks this year was all sorts of Dumb cyclists.

Sunrise Falls creek Mt Beauty Side descending staying to the left having people pass me ( I'm doing around 50) on the inside.

Quite a few DNF's as people crashed and lot of "I want make up time on the down hill and dont care if about anyone else", seemed a bit silly to have 4 waves of competitors going starting in a big bunch rather than last year being 2 at a time.

Mt Buffalo going up only to have the "Tour Wannabes" coming down the hill on the wrong side of the ride 3 abreast.. :shock:

Special mention goes to the guy ( who wasn't hurt btw) but rode off the side the road into a gully cause... "I didn't put my lights on cause I wanted to save weight".

Dumbest cyclist was me who hit gravel patch dropped it and took home some Gravel form the Victorian Alpine region as souvenir sadly no finishers jersey. :(
Image
User avatar
Saturnstarzz
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:00 am

uppo75 wrote:Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.


yes, that's correct, and the road rules of each state are specifically worded that way.

"must not drive in the right lane"

"speed limit greater than 80km/h" (i.e. in practical terms, 90 zones or higher)
wellington_street
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:04 am

Ross wrote:
Summernight wrote:This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?


Courtesy. And it makes for smooth traffic flow. It's not your job to enforce road rules (road rager tailgating the overtaker), that's what the police are for. Won't hurt you to speed up a bit or slow down a bit and change lanes so they can get to wherever they are going , or at least away from you.


You're absolutely right, it does only come down to courtesy.

I absolutely hate tailgaters, there is never ever any excuse to do something so dangerous, and so if I am being tailgated I have zero interest in being courteous. Courtesy goes both ways.
wellington_street
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:10 am

Undertow wrote:Wow, i did not know that. I thought it was actually keep left. Does this mean I'm not allowed to get annoyed at those people in the 2nd and 3rd lanes going at 90kmh with empty lanes to their left?


Unfortunately it seems so. Those slowpoke people will see a happy Undertow from now on. :wink:
User avatar
Summernight
 
Posts: 1870
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:38 am

wellington_street wrote:
Ross wrote:
Summernight wrote:This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?


Courtesy. And it makes for smooth traffic flow. It's not your job to enforce road rules (road rager tailgating the overtaker), that's what the police are for. Won't hurt you to speed up a bit or slow down a bit and change lanes so they can get to wherever they are going , or at least away from you.


You're absolutely right, it does only come down to courtesy.

I absolutely hate tailgaters, there is never ever any excuse to do something so dangerous, and so if I am being tailgated I have zero interest in being courteous. Courtesy goes both ways.


Except if you are in a tunnel, the right lane, doing the speed limit of 80km/h and a truck is right behind you, headlights on high beam, tailgating you. You can't move left because that lane is blocked too, yet I'm moving faster than they are. What do you do, go at 95-100km/h - get a speeding ticket, just to satisfy the truck driver who is deliberately tailgating?

Some of these times, it'd be nice to have one of those Aston Martin DB5s that can release the spikes on the road, wrecking the tyres on the truck and its trailer. :twisted:
g-boaf
 
Posts: 4900
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:58 am

g-boaf wrote:Except if you are in a tunnel, the right lane, doing the speed limit of 80km/h and a truck is right behind you, headlights on high beam, tailgating you. You can't move left because that lane is blocked too, yet I'm moving faster than they are. What do you do, go at 95-100km/h - get a speeding ticket, just to satisfy the truck driver who is deliberately tailgating?

gently slow down more and more :)
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 9141
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:32 pm

jules21 wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Except if you are in a tunnel, the right lane, doing the speed limit of 80km/h and a truck is right behind you, headlights on high beam, tailgating you. You can't move left because that lane is blocked too, yet I'm moving faster than they are. What do you do, go at 95-100km/h - get a speeding ticket, just to satisfy the truck driver who is deliberately tailgating?

gently slow down more and more :)

+1

What I do. If they don't like it, they change lanes, or just slow down themselves. If they hang on my bumper bar I will slow down more :P
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19752
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: thearthurdog



Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter
“Bicycles BNA on Strava

> FREE BNA Stickers