The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:51 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:I live right next to a shared paths, and not far from a school.

great
a) none of them know how to use bells, which is problematic because I walk my dog on this shared path, and they give me no warning to get her out of their way. they're putting both themselves and my dog in danger.

do you keep the dog on your left?

But their stupid parents are sending them off without helmets!

are you sure it's just not the kids leaving the helmets at home whilst the parents aren't watching???
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by BNA » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:40 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:40 pm

trailgumby wrote:That's the thing that used to scare me shirtless about my son's preference for riding the footpath over the road around our suburb ... eesh! Cars barging out without looking :(

Well the area this happened Gmaps The entry into the roundabout from stock rd is downhill. I typically do 40kph thru that roundabout... So I reckon that cyclist being on a downhill on 25mm tyres was doing in the region of 25-30kph prior to seeing the car reverse out. I think it is quite lucky that he only slammed into the side and came off instead of the car hitting him.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Rhubarb » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:06 am

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:10 pm

I sometimes salmon on sylvan rd, but NEVER anywhere near that far
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:15 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:I live right next to a shared paths, and not far from a school.

It makes me happy to see how many kids in my neighbourhood ride to school.

But it makes me really friggen annoys me that:

a) none of them know how to use bells, which is problematic because I walk my dog on this shared path, and they give me no warning to get her out of their way. they're putting both themselves and my dog in danger.
b) none of them know how to pass. they invariably go on the grass to the left of you, which is problematic, because as a rider myself, to the left is where I instinctively go at the last minute when i hear them

And worse than both of those relatively minor issues?

That not only are their stupid parents sending them off on their bikes without actually teaching them how to ride them...


Well, if the kids are passing on the non-dog side, that's probably sensible. When passing dog-walkers, I assume that the owner is stupid and the dog stupid and vicious. So, among other things, I pass on the owner side, whatever that happens to be*. I also leave enough room for Doggy and Owner to flap around and carry on generally. IME 50% of pedestrians instinctively go left and 50% right, so choosing a side on that basis is completely pointless.

Announcing myself, whether by bell, voice or squealing brakes often leads to me being treated to a little vignette I have mentally titled "Things That Happen When You Think Imprinting a Canine Onto a Primate Is a Bright Idea". Y'know, growling (from both parties), madly winding in the 10m lead, capering (again, both parties), babbling nonsense etc etc. I take the view that it's better all round if I avoid this theatre when I can. I shouldn't wonder the kids round your area have taken the same view. There are, of course, good dogs and good owners, but I have no way of knowing when I'm dealing with one until afterwards.

However, announcing myself is unavoidable when dog+owner takes up the whole path. They have a perfect right to do so (well, pedestrians do and I'll grudgingly accept that this right extends to their pets), but it makes it harder for all involved. It's often possible to walk Doggy off the path, which makes it easier for all involved.

My advice (approximate value: 0) is: walk Doggy off the path where possible. Also, let go of your bell-ringing expectation, for reasons I've canvassed before and can't be bothered canvassing again (tl;dr: bell-pinging is neither necessary nor sufficient for safe riding). Instead, expect that people pass you safely and courteously. If the kids aren't leaving enough room or something, that's a legitimate complaint for mine, but you don't mention this.

* On the grounds that I'd rather deal with the creature who stands a chance of being locked up and dosed to the eyeballs on Haloperidol or Clozapine or something if they start abusing random strangers, trying to bite them and defecating in public.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:23 pm

Silly Cyclists Number 45 is out. Includes a clip from a WA forum member :)



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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby queequeg » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:27 pm

trailgumby wrote:That's the thing that used to scare me shirtless about my son's preference for riding the footpath over the road around our suburb ... eesh! Cars barging out without looking :(


Even riding on the on-road bike path doesn't protect you from drivers barging out of their driveways without checking. I was T-boned on the Epping Rd Cycleway by a driver exiting their apartment complex at warp speed, crossing the footpath and the on-road Cycleway before stopping. Unfortunately I was on the Cycleway at the time and was shunted over their bonnet!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:37 pm

Rhubarb wrote:


Hmm....

Ride the wrong way onto the oncoming lane at the 'bike-path end' sign and stop on the road...... or ride 50m further along the footpath to the side-street to enter the road safely ??

I know what my choice would be as you'll be breaking a rule either way. I'd review your own strategy.


BTW the salmon was of course an idiot.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:15 pm

trailgumby wrote:Re the unhelmeted kids... is riding a bike on a shared path really that dangerous?


Firstly - that's not the point. AT ALL. Are you really going to defend children not wearing bike helmets? Especially when the point I'm making is that they're riding too quickly, unpredictably and wrecklessly to be riding without a helmet.

Secondly, I don't know how you can question whether riding on a shared path used by dozens, if not hundreds of school kids, parents, and general public is not potentially dangerous. Of course it's potentially dangerous when there's so much traffic.

jasonc wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:I live right next to a shared paths, and not far from a school.

great
a) none of them know how to use bells, which is problematic because I walk my dog on this shared path, and they give me no warning to get her out of their way. they're putting both themselves and my dog in danger.

do you keep the dog on your left?


Yes, she's always on my left. If I'm given warning that someone is coming up behind me, she's always standing right next to me on my left.

But their stupid parents are sending them off without helmets!

are you sure it's just not the kids leaving the helmets at home whilst the parents aren't watching???


I have no doubt that this occurs with a lot, if not the majority the kids I'm talking about. Maybe I'm overly judgmental cos I don't have kids - but wouldn't you want to make sure they were wearing their helmet before they left?

high_tea wrote:
Well, if the kids are passing on the non-dog side, that's probably sensible. When passing dog-walkers, I assume that the owner is stupid and the dog stupid and vicious. So, among other things, I pass on the owner side, whatever that happens to be*. I also leave enough room for Doggy and Owner to flap around and carry on generally. IME 50% of pedestrians instinctively go left and 50% right, so choosing a side on that basis is completely pointless.

Announcing myself, whether by bell, voice or squealing brakes often leads to me being treated to a little vignette I have mentally titled "Things That Happen When You Think Imprinting a Canine Onto a Primate Is a Bright Idea". Y'know, growling (from both parties), madly winding in the 10m lead, capering (again, both parties), babbling nonsense etc etc. I take the view that it's better all round if I avoid this theatre when I can. I shouldn't wonder the kids round your area have taken the same view. There are, of course, good dogs and good owners, but I have no way of knowing when I'm dealing with one until afterwards.

However, announcing myself is unavoidable when dog+owner takes up the whole path. They have a perfect right to do so (well, pedestrians do and I'll grudgingly accept that this right extends to their pets), but it makes it harder for all involved. It's often possible to walk Doggy off the path, which makes it easier for all involved.

My advice (approximate value: 0) is: walk Doggy off the path where possible. Also, let go of your bell-ringing expectation, for reasons I've canvassed before and can't be bothered canvassing again (tl;dr: bell-pinging is neither necessary nor sufficient for safe riding). Instead, expect that people pass you safely and courteously. If the kids aren't leaving enough room or something, that's a legitimate complaint for mine, but you don't mention this.

* On the grounds that I'd rather deal with the creature who stands a chance of being locked up and dosed to the eyeballs on Haloperidol or Clozapine or something if they start abusing random strangers, trying to bite them and defecating in public.


It's nothing personal mate, but there is very little, if anything in this post that I agree with.

- On a shared path, there is ABSOLUTELY merit to using a bell.
- Why do you assume the worst? If you assume that, you're likely to take a cavalier attitude to both rules and norms surrounding these paths, and any accident is more likely to be your fault. Why not assume that people do the right thing? If I'm doing the right thing, and you crash into into my dog, who is standing on my left, and you hurt her - not only are you in the wrong, but you're going to cop a friggen beating. Assume that I will do the right thing - ring your bell, she'll be standing on my left, and you can pass on the right as you're supposed to do. If I do the wrong thing, and you do the right thing - at least you can defend yourself in court. (by the way, to add a little bit of context, I'm talking about a 5kg Jack Russell - if you crash into her because you do the wrong thing, you kill her)
- I know not everyone does this - but you can only follow the established rules and norms, and act according to that - because your guessing makes you every bit as unpredictable as any pedestrian or animal. I thought we were the ones who wished that everyone would follow the road rules as well as the majority of us do? (sans the occasional red-light runner) By choosing to encounter unpredictability with unpredictability, you are furthering the chaos. Predictability is all I want as a rider, and as a pedestrian.
- I do not, and have never bought this argument that bell ringing leads to abuse. Since I got my bike, I'm just about to crack 1000km. Half on roads, half on shared paths as I got out to see different areas. I've encountered very few people who don't act appropriately when they're dinged (ie shifting slightly to the left if required), and I've encountered no one so stupid as to think that me dinging them for their own safety is offensive.
- you're arguing that these kids have the experience, maturity and presence of mind that they're consciously riding in an unpredictable manner deliberately - despite the fact that they don't have the experience, maturity or presence of mind to ride in a (slow enough) manner for a path full of kids, parents, prams and animals. It doesn't add up.

In any case, you've missed the point - the main point was about helmets. The secondary point was the one about these kids not riding to conditions - they're riding way to fast with no regard for any other users of the path. Forget that it's an animal.

Please don't construe this as a "kids these days" rant - as I said, I'm thrilled that these kids are riding their bikes to school!

I just wish they would do it sensibly, and being conscious of not only the safety of others, but their own safety.

More than anything else, I wish that they would wear helmets, and have some regard for other users of the path.

Because in the meantime, I'm now restricted to when I can and can't walk my dog - that's the action that I'll be taking. I just won't be walking her at those times of they day any more.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:05 pm

I dont get it. If you walk your dog on your left then she is on your left. No problem. If you want to only do it when someone else is on the path then mate.. I,m on the path.

I have to say that you sound like one of the people whose dog is always under control. Except whenever I,m around them.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:38 pm

A young lady walking her dogs today, neither of them on a leash. All the more annoying since she'd just walked past a sign telling her she wasn't allowed to let them off leash.

I can't be bothered getting into a discussion re: other issue before... But a lot of cyclist warn you if they are going to overtake you. I do that, and many others do as well.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Rhubarb » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:28 am

il padrone wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:


Hmm....

Ride the wrong way onto the oncoming lane at the 'bike-path end' sign and stop on the road...... or ride 50m further along the footpath to the side-street to enter the road safely ??

I know what my choice would be as you'll be breaking a rule either way. I'd review your own strategy.


BTW the salmon was of course an idiot.


That's a fair response I guess, but you would really need to experience the shambles that crossing is to understand why I do what I do. It really is a considered strategy, taking in to account all risks and behaviours I have seen over the past 4 years of daily commuting. Before it was "upgraded" about 18 months ago, I used to do exactly what you suggested above, ie to ride to the side street and come on to Sylvan Rd there. Riding on the footpath is legal in Qld so no rules broken there. But now they have changed all the ramps into really narrow ones and stupidly provided 4 different ones to choose from. The result is that there is no clear and obvious ramp to use, which results in confusion between cyclists who are forced to meet each other head on, and pass on the incorrect side etc. I prefer to avoid having these "oncoming" interactions with other cyclists as much as I can.

The official way to cross is to use the ramp I used in the video above, but just to turn sharper (ie to cross perpendicular) and use the refuge in the island. In a velomobile, this leaves you with either your nose or your tail sticking out onto the road. In the video above, I went behind the refuge island and waited on the painted island, but at that angle I am out of the lanes.

Here's a video I made a while ago to highlight the confusion you get at this point:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:31 am

another reason I'm happy to commute through Sylvan Rd much earlier than you
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby JonoMarshall » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:44 am

Am I in the minority that find bells actually make pedestrians/whatever more unpredictable? I'm finding it causes people to suddenly move (in an unpredictable way)?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:01 am

JonoMarshall wrote:Am I in the minority that find bells actually make pedestrians/whatever more unpredictable? I'm finding it causes people to suddenly move (in an unpredictable way)?


That's my experience too. I find that picking a sensible speed and leaving plenty of room works just fine. I find that bell-pinging adds nothing and sometimes causes erratic behaviour. I got to the point where I realised that I would have to account for erratic behaviour ping or no ping and had to assume that they hadn't heard my ping or, worse still, would react in some bizarre way. "What's the point?" I asked myself. I didn't have a good answer, so I just laid off the bell-pinging. So far, so good. And, bonus, I don't go insinuating that the responsibility to pass safely rests anywhere but with the overtaker (barring the universal don't-do-stupid-stuff obligation) which is misguided, wrong and offensive.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby London Boy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:05 am

high_tea wrote:
JonoMarshall wrote:Am I in the minority that find bells actually make pedestrians/whatever more unpredictable? I'm finding it causes people to suddenly move (in an unpredictable way)?


That's my experience too. I find that picking a sensible speed and leaving plenty of room works just fine.

I think that you avoid giving offence by riding like that. Steady speed, careful passing. And wait, at walking pace if need be, for a pedestrian to sort themselves out if there really is nowhere to pass.

I know some cyclists are a bit impatient and just want to be on their way (a bit like many motorists in that sense) but I've never had a problem waiting and if I have to follow slowly for a few metres, no big deal.

I did once lose it a little with one cyclist. Footpath running through a nature strip alongside a road. The path is fractionally wider than a stroller, and there is only about 50 metres of it before it entered a wider paved area. Young woman pushing her kid along this path and a cyclist comes up behind. I'm just behind him, just riding home from work.

He starts hitting the bell. Quite clear he thinks she should get off the path so he can pass. I told him he gives way to her on a footpath, and he should **** wait until she finished going where she was going. He just went quiet. I think he knew.

high_tea wrote:So far, so good. And, bonus, I don't go insinuating that the responsibility to pass safely rests anywhere but with the overtaker (barring the universal don't-do-stupid-stuff obligation) which is misguided, wrong and offensive.

One reason why I don't tend to call things when I'm on a group ride, unless there's something that really needs attention. I find that people calling out is more distracting than it is worth. I'm busy looking out for whatever pothole they called and end up riding over a carelessly dropped brick...

Better everyone just pays attention.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:24 am

To the foolish young couple riding cruisers on the pavement eastbound on Horton Parade, Maroochydore.
You were wearing the helmets on your wrists and rode off the pavement onto Cornmeal Parade (M'dore Police and Magistrates Courts) towards KFC without a sideways glance. You crossed over the road to the other pavement at one of the busier traffic areas in this part of town, you are very lucky I saw you both and anticipated your negligence. I was the guy in the Bronze Honda who slowed as he approached the junction and stopped as you did as I predicted. Then you noticed me, I shook my head, no horn, no shouting, no other gestures. You are the guy who showed me the finger and shouted 'see you next Tuesday' (that's code), and you and your lady friend laughed and rode off. (NB: I stopped so clear that they didn't have to apply brakes or swerve.)
I know you probably don't visit this site, but thank you, thank you for setting back all of the work that good cyclists do to change the opinion of motorists. I hope you remain lucky with your blasé style of riding, I really do.

Two steps forward, three steps back...... :x
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby VRE » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:30 am

Met a trio of dumb pedestrians today riding down Mountain Hwy from Sassafras to The Basin. I was roughly a 3rd of the way down, where there is a bend that is moderately sharp and turns about 135°. An advisory speed limit sign says "35km/h" which in my opinion is a reasonable top speed for that bend. I was probably doing about 30km/h, when about halfway around the bend, 3 pedestrians were crossing the road. They were carrying hiking sticks and had obviously been bushwalking in the area. Fortunately, one of us (myself) was paying attention, and I was in no danger of hitting any of them. One of the pedestrians had a go at me as I passed, and I was sorely tempted to stop and discuss with her why she was dumb enough to cross the road at that particular point, probably the worst spot in that whole section of road for a walker to cross.

What happened to common-sense, or do people really think that it's reasonable to cross a road at a particular point, just because a walking track happens to intersect it there, regardless of whether the road is actually safe to cross at that point? :roll: It's a similar mentality to that of motorists who, when catching up to another vehicle (motorised or otherwise), think that it's terribly important to overtake IMMEDIATELY, regardless of whether it's actually safe to do so. Just so we're even-handed here: I've also seen cyclists practising the "must-overtake/cross/turn-NOW" routine on roads or shared paths.

What's the rush, and is it worth putting your own or others' lives in danger?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:08 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:It's nothing personal mate, but there is very little, if anything in this post that I agree with.
- On a shared path, there is ABSOLUTELY merit to using a bell.
- Why do you assume the worst? If you assume that, you're likely to take a cavalier attitude to both rules and norms surrounding these paths, and any accident is more likely to be your fault. Why not assume that people do the right thing? If I'm doing the right thing, and you crash into into my dog, who is standing on my left, and you hurt her - not only are you in the wrong, but you're going to cop a friggen beating. Assume that I will do the right thing - ring your bell, she'll be standing on my left, and you can pass on the right as you're supposed to do. If I do the wrong thing, and you do the right thing - at least you can defend yourself in court. (by the way, to add a little bit of context, I'm talking about a 5kg Jack Russell - if you crash into her because you do the wrong thing, you kill her)


"Assuming the worst" doesn't result in me taking a cavalier attitude to anything much. It results in me taking the same attitude that I'd like people to take when they come across my four-year-old on the path: I honestly try my best to 1. be safe and 2. be nice. It means I make allowances for the people I come across acting erratically. Among other things, I try to leave plenty of room when overtaking. If they don't act erratically, no big deal. Everybody just goes on their way. I have no interest in being in the right per se. Suffering no harm and doing no harm is rather higher on my agenda. Broken elbows hurt, no matter whose fault it is. Ask me how I know.

- I know not everyone does this - but you can only follow the established rules and norms, and act according to that - because your guessing makes you every bit as unpredictable as any pedestrian or animal. I thought we were the ones who wished that everyone would follow the road rules as well as the majority of us do? (sans the occasional red-light runner) By choosing to encounter unpredictability with unpredictability, you are furthering the chaos. Predictability is all I want as a rider, and as a pedestrian.


I want a good deal more than predictability. I want safe, courteous behaviour. Predictability goes out the window the moment that children or animals are involved, so making that an end in itself, rather than a means to an end, is an exercise in futility.

- I do not, and have never bought this argument that bell ringing leads to abuse. Since I got my bike, I'm just about to crack 1000km. Half on roads, half on shared paths as I got out to see different areas. I've encountered very few people who don't act appropriately when they're dinged (ie shifting slightly to the left if required), and I've encountered no one so stupid as to think that me dinging them for their own safety is offensive.


I've got news for you: the Road Rules require giving way to a pedestrian on a shared path. If they need to know you're overtaking, you're doing it wrong. If they need to move left, you're doing it wrong.

- you're arguing that these kids have the experience, maturity and presence of mind that they're consciously riding in an unpredictable manner deliberately - despite the fact that they don't have the experience, maturity or presence of mind to ride in a (slow enough) manner for a path full of kids, parents, prams and animals. It doesn't add up.


Kindly refrain from putting words into my mouth. I pointed out that the things you complained about - no bell-pinging and overtaking on the left - are not inherently bad things. You made no mention of these other issues so I could hardly have expressed an opinion on them.

In any case, you've missed the point - the main point was about helmets. The secondary point was the one about these kids not riding to conditions - they're riding way to fast with no regard for any other users of the path. Forget that it's an animal.


You mentioned helmets in passing and riding to conditions not at all. This seems like a pretty inept attempt at ex post facto justification to me.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:28 pm

Just the idiot that has an issue with people passing on the PSP.

I'm heading north and keeping quite well to the left as I mostly try to do. A rider is heading south towards me at moderate speed. The PSP is straight and a good width.

The guy then moves across to closer to the centre. "Hmm, wonder why".

A moment later a rider completes a pass of me from behind at leisurely speed, gives me plenty of space (Many riders don't) and is therefore close to the centre. Actually on my side but his "personal space" would be cutting it a bit fine.

The timing is quite apparent - the tool coming to wards me wants to be difficult. Gives his self-righteous yell of "Hey, keep to your side" and a minor expletive. And darts back to about the line that he had been holding earlier. I suppose whatever gets his rocks off.

The rider passing from behind was safe and slow and never a problem to anyone in the circumstance. Indeed he had moved off the centre well enough before the prat coming towards me got to him anyway. It's hard not to think that he was hoping otherwise.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:37 pm

KIds, riding bikes on shared paths ?? Pah, under the bicycle education regime in Australia they will always be unpredictable, whether on bikes, on skateboards, or on foot. We all need to simply realise this and deal with it. Lobby for much better road education for all, commencing at about 10 and developed progressively through secondary school

high_tea wrote:I've got news for you: the Road Rules require giving way to a pedestrian on a shared path. If they need to know you're overtaking, you're doing it wrong. If they need to move left, you're doing it wrong.

Today I rode with a group of 12 other cyclists, from Melbourne to Altona and back. Almost the entire ride (48kms) was on shared paths. We encountered some groups of pedestrians and individuals. Most of the time we rang our bells, about 10-20m before we passed, then thanked them as we passed. No-one gave us grief or complained about the bell rings (one chap made some remarks but I was past before he said it, so don't know the content).

Some pedestrians needed to move left. I don't see how we were "doing it wrong" :? - they were walking three wide across the full width of the path. I rang my bell then waited for their response. They moved left and were apologetic (not needed really of course). On my part, ringing the bell is to let people know I am there and then I wait for their response. It's all about a bit of manners - on both parties.

Back near Melbourne we rode down a very busy Southbank past Crown. People everywhere, I didn't ring my bell once - kinda pointless really. Who would I be ringing it at? What reaction would there likely be? I just rode at a suitable speed, avoiding pedestrians and ready to brake. Safe, reasonable riding in my estimation.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Howzat » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:47 pm

JonoMarshall wrote:Am I in the minority that find bells actually make pedestrians/whatever more unpredictable? I'm finding it causes people to suddenly move (in an unpredictable way)?

Sounds like you might want to ring the bell further back, like a good 6-10 seconds before you pass. This gives pedestrians enough reaction time, and you enough time to ring twice if needed.

The problem with not ringing is that if they don't know you're coming, they might make a really ill-timed move across your intended path.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:48 pm

il padrone wrote:KIds, riding bikes on shared paths ?? Pah, under the bicycle education regime in Australia they will always be unpredictable, whether on bikes, on skateboards, or on foot. We all need to simply realise this and deal with it. Lobby for much better road education for all, commencing at about 10 and developed progressively through secondary school

high_tea wrote:I've got news for you: the Road Rules require giving way to a pedestrian on a shared path. If they need to know you're overtaking, you're doing it wrong. If they need to move left, you're doing it wrong.

Today I rode with a group of 12 other cyclists, from Melbourne to Altona and back. Almost the entire ride (48kms) was on shared paths. We encountered some groups of pedestrians and individuals. Most of the time we rang our bells, about 10-20m before we passed, then thanked them as we passed. No-one gave us grief or complained about the bell rings (one chap made some remarks but I was past before he said it, so don't know the content).

Some pedestrians needed to move left. I don't see how we were "doing it wrong" :? - they were walking three wide across the full width of the path. I rang my bell then waited for their response. They moved left and were apologetic (not needed really of course). On my part, ringing the bell is to let people know I am there and then I wait for their response. It's all about a bit of manners - on both parties.

Back near Melbourne we rode down a very busy Southbank past Crown. People everywhere, I didn't ring my bell once - kinda pointless really. Who would I be ringing it at? What reaction would there likely be? I just rode at a suitable speed, avoiding pedestrians and ready to brake. Safe, reasonable riding in my estimation.


Yeah, mine too. Not that I was there, but I have absolutely zero hassle with what you describe. Point is, though, you didn't need to ping. As I understand you, it was for convenience and/or courtesy. Which is absolutely fine with me.

Perhaps I could have put it better: if you need to bell-ping for safety, you're doing it wrong.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:19 pm

il padrone wrote:Today I rode with a group of 12 other cyclists, from Melbourne to Altona and back. Almost the entire ride (48kms) was on shared paths. We encountered some groups of pedestrians and individuals. Most of the time we rang our bells, about 10-20m before we passed, then thanked them as we passed. No-one gave us grief or complained about the bell rings (one chap made some remarks but I was past before he said it, so don't know the content).

10- to 20m is perfect. A shout of "bike bike" or "Bike right" isn't anywhere near as noticeble or INSTANTLY understood. And at 10 or 20 metres when you are riding next to a freeway not even a chance of being useful.

One of the easiest changes that can be made for the safety of peds and other cyclists is the fitting of bells (as required anyway) and judicious use of them. Unlike legislative changes or building of infrastructure, it can be implemented immediately. And there are no excuses for not fitting a bell. It can be done by each and everyone of us tomorrow. (Well, maybe after the Easter weekend anyway.)

All ranted out.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:09 pm

high_tea wrote:Perhaps I could have put it better: if you need to bell-ping for safety, you're doing it wrong.

A significant number of times I would have caused the pedestrians to be given a rather rude shock. In the cases of those walking three wide, I would have needed to call out from afar, in a manner that many might construe as rude; or slowed to 5kmh behind them and spoken a request; or ridden wide onto the grass (often fraught with its own risks).

Using the bell is simple, effective and pedestrians appreciate it. I guess it's not direct "safety", but it facilitates safe behaviour on the paths.


On Southbank with huge crowds a bell would be very confusing, and the walkway is very wide - more than enough room to calmly weave a safe route at a suitable speed. Not the case on a 2m wide shared path.
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