The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:03 am

il padrone wrote:
high_tea wrote:Perhaps I could have put it better: if you need to bell-ping for safety, you're doing it wrong.

A significant number of times I would have caused the pedestrians to be given a rather rude shock. In the cases of those walking three wide, I would have needed to call out from afar, in a manner that many might construe as rude; or slowed to 5kmh behind them and spoken a request; or ridden wide onto the grass (often fraught with its own risks).

Using the bell is simple, effective and pedestrians appreciate it. I guess it's not direct "safety", but it facilitates safe behaviour on the paths.


On Southbank with huge crowds a bell would be very confusing, and the walkway is very wide - more than enough room to calmly weave a safe route at a suitable speed. Not the case on a 2m wide shared path.


Well there you go again describing reasonable things to do :D I don't mind people doing reasonable things, I really don't. My only point is that there are other reasonable things to do, things that don't involve bell-pinging. Each to their own.

What gets my goat is the bell-ping followed by the marginal overtake. This is a case of someone no doubt imagining it's for my safety or my own good or something when the right thing to do is wait until it's safe. Bell-pinging to compensate for sketchy riding (which is very much not what you are describing) is most certainly doing it wrong. This happens. People describe it on this very forum and I see it when out riding or walking. It is a bad idea. Bad riding is bad riding, bell-pinging or no. OTOH good riding is good riding, bell-pinging or no. Criticising people merely for not bell-pinging (which is where this whole thing started) is a ridiculous stance. So too is criticising people merely for doing it. I am completely unrepentant, however, about criticising people for doing it for no good reason, or worse still for doing it instead of slowing down when the situation requires it. Mea culpa.
high_tea
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:10 pm

by BNA » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:12 pm

BNA
 

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:12 pm

high_tea wrote:
In any case, you've missed the point - the main point was about helmets. The secondary point was the one about these kids not riding to conditions - they're riding way to fast with no regard for any other users of the path. Forget that it's an animal.


You mentioned helmets in passing and riding to conditions not at all. This seems like a pretty inept attempt at ex post facto justification to me.


Did you read my post?

fatdudeonabike wrote:I live right next to a shared paths, and not far from a school.

It makes me happy to see how many kids in my neighbourhood ride to school.

But it makes me really friggen annoys me that:

a) none of them know how to use bells, which is problematic because I walk my dog on this shared path, and they give me no warning to get her out of their way. they're putting both themselves and my dog in danger.
b) none of them know how to pass. they invariably go on the grass to the left of you, which is problematic, because as a rider myself, to the left is where I instinctively go at the last minute when i hear them

And worse than both of those relatively minor issues?

That not only are their stupid parents sending them off on their bikes without actually teaching them how to ride them...

But their stupid parents are sending them off without helmets!


I got caught in the school peak hour twice today with a day off work. I was walking the dog at about 8.45 this morning, I was walking to the shop at about 3.20 this afternoon.

I reckon I saw at least a dozen kids on bikes - I saw one of them wearing a helmet.


So whose attempt at ex post facto justification is inept now?

I said clearly that the other issues (the ones that you've tried to pick a fight about) were minor in comparison to the helmet.

Any other unjustified and unwarranted fights you want to pick to try and justify your own assumptions and law breaking behaviour?
fatdudeonabike
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:36 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
il padrone wrote:Today I rode with a group of 12 other cyclists, from Melbourne to Altona and back. Almost the entire ride (48kms) was on shared paths. We encountered some groups of pedestrians and individuals. Most of the time we rang our bells, about 10-20m before we passed, then thanked them as we passed. No-one gave us grief or complained about the bell rings (one chap made some remarks but I was past before he said it, so don't know the content).

10- to 20m is perfect. A shout of "bike bike" or "Bike right" isn't anywhere near as noticeble or INSTANTLY understood. And at 10 or 20 metres when you are riding next to a freeway not even a chance of being useful.

One of the easiest changes that can be made for the safety of peds and other cyclists is the fitting of bells (as required anyway) and judicious use of them. Unlike legislative changes or building of infrastructure, it can be implemented immediately. And there are no excuses for not fitting a bell. It can be done by each and everyone of us tomorrow. (Well, maybe after the Easter weekend anyway.)

All ranted out.


I'm okay with that, so long as pedestrians walking or running are banned from using music players which restrict their awareness of other people, bicycles and motor vehicles around them. That will improve the safety of pedestrians as well.

A lot of them with music going will just charge out across the road without looking.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 4581
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:21 pm

g-boaf wrote:A lot of them with music going will just charge out across the road without looking.

Banning music-players will not stop this sort of behaviour. There's no law known to man that will prevent stupidity. :roll:
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Rhubarb » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:50 pm

il padrone wrote:
g-boaf wrote:A lot of them with music going will just charge out across the road without looking.

Banning music-players will not stop this sort of behaviour. There's no law known to man that will prevent stupidity. :roll:


My Grandad used to say that gambling was a tax on stupidity. It doesn't stop it though. :-)
Rhubarb
 
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:00 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
high_tea wrote:
In any case, you've missed the point - the main point was about helmets. The secondary point was the one about these kids not riding to conditions - they're riding way to fast with no regard for any other users of the path. Forget that it's an animal.


You mentioned helmets in passing and riding to conditions not at all. This seems like a pretty inept attempt at ex post facto justification to me.


Did you read my post?

fatdudeonabike wrote:I live right next to a shared paths, and not far from a school.

It makes me happy to see how many kids in my neighbourhood ride to school.

But it makes me really friggen annoys me that:

a) none of them know how to use bells, which is problematic because I walk my dog on this shared path, and they give me no warning to get her out of their way. they're putting both themselves and my dog in danger.
b) none of them know how to pass. they invariably go on the grass to the left of you, which is problematic, because as a rider myself, to the left is where I instinctively go at the last minute when i hear them

And worse than both of those relatively minor issues?

That not only are their stupid parents sending them off on their bikes without actually teaching them how to ride them...

But their stupid parents are sending them off without helmets!


I got caught in the school peak hour twice today with a day off work. I was walking the dog at about 8.45 this morning, I was walking to the shop at about 3.20 this afternoon.

I reckon I saw at least a dozen kids on bikes - I saw one of them wearing a helmet.


So whose attempt at ex post facto justification is inept now?

I said clearly that the other issues (the ones that you've tried to pick a fight about) were minor in comparison to the helmet.

Any other unjustified and unwarranted fights you want to pick to try and justify your own assumptions and law breaking behaviour?


Your complaints about bell-pinging and passing in your first post were rubbish. They continue to be rubbish. Make them minor points, make them chromatic points for all I care. They're no better for it. What, am I supposed to accept specious nonsense if it's a minor point? I don't think so.

But no, I don't have any "unjustified and unwarranted fights to pick". I've made my point, I stand by it. I've got no idea what assumptions or lawbreaking behaviour you're talking about. The accusation is nothing more than ad hominem, though, and doesn't improve your argument one bit.
high_tea
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:03 pm

il padrone wrote:
g-boaf wrote:A lot of them with music going will just charge out across the road without looking.

Banning music-players will not stop this sort of behaviour. There's no law known to man that will prevent stupidity. :roll:

When I rode I rode on the basis that people walking with friends on out-of-the-way paths was something they do to escape from the rigours of a busy life. I have always considered my self when I was a cyclist to be bit of an interloper and I should make more allowances for peds than they should for me.

I still see no reason to think otherwise. If they want music with it, so be it.

There is nothing hard about riding amoung peds safely and with consideration. If the worst that we have to do is slow right down when we think that a ped may be a little in their own world then cyclists are still well off.

It is not that difficult to ride safely and with consideration. Albeit sometimes with the annoyance of having to push a bit harder to recover some speed that had been well earned. (Or a loss of a KOM rating. Boo hoo.)

Incidentally I am not a walker. Never saw any point in it since I got my first bike as a kid. And of course peds should value their own safety. But they should not have to be greatly concerned about cyclists as long as they basically do not try and make life difficult.

And while it is easy for me to take this stand now as I ride at such a leisurely pace, I did ride accordingly while I was still able to ride a bike.
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4942
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:31 pm

It drives me absolutely mad when the person walks right down the middle of a wide path - deliberately with the most wide stance possible with music going, dark glasses on, beanie and the rest. You know the drill, not a regular pedestrian - it's done deliberately!

And yet you lot almost seem to act like that's okay! It's not damn well okay. It's a symptom of rude society today when you are a metre behind them doing about the slowest speed possible short of trying to track stand and shouting at full volume and yet they still take no notice. I say shouting at full volume because 10 rings of the bell did nothing.

And when you do manage to find a way around them, they laugh at how good they are. :x

I slow down for pedestrians always - yet you seem to suggest I don't. And yet others if you here reckon that people like me encourage bad pedestrian behaviour because we are too cautious?? :roll:

When I'm a pedestrian, I watch where I'm going, don't have music on and always keep an eye out for cyclists or others. It's called being considerate.


ColinOldnCranky wrote:There is nothing hard about riding amoung peds safely and with consideration. If the worst that we have to do is slow right down when we think that a ped may be a little in their own world then cyclists are still well off.

It is not that difficult to ride safely and with consideration.


Say whatever you wish - but don't ever say I ride unsafely.
Last edited by g-boaf on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 4581
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:37 pm

g-boaf wrote:I slow down for pedestrians always - yet you seem to suggest I don't. And yet others if you here reckon that people like me encourage bad pedestrian behaviour because we are too cautious?? :roll:.

If I am the one that is suggesting then I apologise. I was not meaning to, or even directing my comments to you specifically. :oops: My comments are very much generalisations.
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4942
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:44 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I slow down for pedestrians always - yet you seem to suggest I don't. And yet others if you here reckon that people like me encourage bad pedestrian behaviour because we are too cautious?? :roll:.

If I am the one that is suggesting then I apologise. I was not meaning to, or even directing my comments to you specifically. :oops: My comments are very much generalisations.


Fair enough. :) It just happened to press a button.

In my area - the pedestrians are at war with cyclists, witness the vandalism on paths with anti-cycling messages and constant glass smashing in places where it is least easy to see. It is deliberate. It can be cleaned up one day and glass everywhere the next.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 4581
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:37 pm

g-boaf wrote:It drives me absolutely mad when the person walks right down the middle of a wide path - deliberately with the most wide stance possible with music going, dark glasses on, beanie and the rest. You know the drill, not a regular pedestrian - it's done deliberately!

I can well understand your frustration, g-boaf, and sympathise with you. The music-player was not the problem here however :roll:
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:42 pm

Aaaand today's idiot cyclist was me, for not changing my cleats when I should have done. All the anti-slip stuff was worn away. This resulted in a spectacular stack...in the coffee shop. :lol:

Had a coffee at Cleveland Point, decided I would make use of the facilities before we left, walked out the back towards the loos. Down two steps onto the concrete floor (which sloped away from the steps slightly, just for added fun), feet slipped. Both legs went out in front of me, was fully airborne. Crashed down on my elbows and then the back of my head. A nice lady rushed to my aid and got some ice (I was somewhat groggily struggling to my feet).

I'd love to say my pride took the worst battering, but it really really hurt. Turns out solid ground floor concrete doesn't have much give in it. The 40km back to Brisbane was not the most fun I've had on a bike (although thanks are due to my riding buddies who looked after me and did all the work). I've got a very sore wrist, two mildly bruised elbows, a sore neck and shoulder, a sore jaw(!) and a bloody big headache.

Change ya cleats on time, people!
User avatar
GeoffInBrisbane
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:52 pm

high_tea wrote:Perhaps I could have put it better: if you need to bell-ping for safety, you're doing it wrong.

No. Not wrong.

Even if doing things right, to be truly safe any system needs to assume that something can go wrong and so have second and third and more extra safeties built in.

There are plenty of times that a rider is wise to indicate their impending presence. And a bell is a fairly low-key and easy way of doing it. I trust that you are not using that argument to justify not fitting one.
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4942
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Xenon » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:50 pm

GeoffInBrisbane wrote:I'd love to say my pride took the worst battering, but it really really hurt. Turns out solid ground floor concrete doesn't have much give in it. The 40km back to Brisbane was not the most fun I've had on a bike (although thanks are due to my riding buddies who looked after me and did all the work). I've got a very sore wrist, two mildly bruised elbows, a sore neck and shoulder, a sore jaw(!) and a bloody big headache.


Ironically, the only time I've used my helmet was on stairs; I was walking down when my foot slipped out from under me, I managed to get a hand down to stop myself falling the rest of the way, luckily I was carrying my helmet in that hand and it stopped me from falling too far. Not a mark on the helmet and nobody saw it so not even my pride was damaged.
Xenon
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:43 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:42 pm

I do it all the time on the stairs at train stations. I don't know if its the size 47 shoes. If its the cleats. If its the DDA grip that they use. No idea why but its always train stations. I guess its my brain telling me that I should be riding those 100km back to Brisbane from the Sunshine and Gold Coasts :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Lukeyboy
 
Posts: 2468
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:43 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
high_tea wrote:Perhaps I could have put it better: if you need to bell-ping for safety, you're doing it wrong.

No. Not wrong.

Even if doing things right, to be truly safe any system needs to assume that something can go wrong and so have second and third and more extra safeties built in.

There are plenty of times that a rider is wise to indicate their impending presence. And a bell is a fairly low-key and easy way of doing it. I trust that you are not using that argument to justify not fitting one.


Sigh. I can buy bells as a convenience. I can buy bells as a courtesy. Bells as a safety device are hopelessly inadequate. The bell had better not be the only safety device, because it's bound to fail sooner or later.

What I do or don't do with my bikes is none of your concern, as well as being beside the point.
high_tea
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:55 am

high_tea wrote:Sigh. I can buy bells as a convenience. I can buy bells as a courtesy. Bells as a safety device are hopelessly inadequate. The bell had better not be the only safety device, because it's bound to fail sooner or later.

What I do or don't do with my bikes is none of your concern, as well as being beside the point.

Call it a convenience, call it a safety device, call it a tinkler...... whatever you think.

What it is, is a legal requirement to be there on your bike (a bell or a horn) and that may well be the concern of others.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:19 am

il padrone wrote:
high_tea wrote:Sigh. I can buy bells as a convenience. I can buy bells as a courtesy. Bells as a safety device are hopelessly inadequate. The bell had better not be the only safety device, because it's bound to fail sooner or later.

What I do or don't do with my bikes is none of your concern, as well as being beside the point.

Call it a convenience, call it a safety device, call it a tinkler...... whatever you think.

What it is, is a legal requirement to be there on your bike (a bell or a horn) and that may well be the concern of others.


Police officers with nothing better to do, maybe. People on internet forums, no. But since we've sequed into legal discussion, here's something you might like to weigh in on: is a public velodrome a road-related area? My track bike has no bell and, more importantly no brakes. Am I breaking The Law?
high_tea
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:34 am

I'm stopped in a line of traffic this morning, waiting behind three cars as we all wait for the green light. There's a cyclist on the cross road heading towards the intersection (in t-shirt and shorts, it's only 3C, what are you thinking!!?!). The cars behind him start to slow, and I'm getting ready to go... He's about a third of the way across the intersection when we get the green light. :x

So we're all just sitting there, waiting for Mr I'm-so-important-the-red-light-doesn't-apply-to-me to clear the intersection.

I yelled out "Great move" and gave him the thumbs up. Given the vacant stare, I'm not sure if he got the sarcasm.
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:35 am

Lukeyboy wrote:I do it all the time on the stairs at train stations. I don't know if its the size 47 shoes. If its the cleats. If its the DDA grip that they use. No idea why but its always train stations. I guess its my brain telling me that I should be riding those 100km back to Brisbane from the Sunshine and Gold Coasts :lol: :lol:


Careful. I know somebody who did themselves serious mischief falling down QR steps (in his instance due to booze, not cleats).

The day after and I'm very sore. Slept badly as my neck kept seizing up, and today everything hurts. Clearly at 31 I don't bounce like I did at 17, or even 25...
User avatar
GeoffInBrisbane
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:43 am

high_tea wrote:Perhaps I could have put it better: if you need to bell-ping for safety, you're doing it wrong.

I agree, lots. I only use a warning device so that I don't scare the crap out of people I'm passing, no other reason. Especially given how some cyclists feel the need to do a head check when they hear a bell/horn/call and drift in the direction they are looking, you sometimes end up with even less space than you started with.
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:29 am

GeoffInBrisbane wrote:Aaaand today's idiot cyclist was me, for not changing my cleats when I should have done. All the anti-slip stuff was worn away. This resulted in a spectacular stack...in the coffee shop. :lol:

Had a coffee at Cleveland Point, decided I would make use of the facilities before we left, walked out the back towards the loos. Down two steps onto the concrete floor (which sloped away from the steps slightly, just for added fun), feet slipped. Both legs went out in front of me, was fully airborne. Crashed down on my elbows and then the back of my head. A nice lady rushed to my aid and got some ice (I was somewhat groggily struggling to my feet).

I'd love to say my pride took the worst battering, but it really really hurt. Turns out solid ground floor concrete doesn't have much give in it. The 40km back to Brisbane was not the most fun I've had on a bike (although thanks are due to my riding buddies who looked after me and did all the work). I've got a very sore wrist, two mildly bruised elbows, a sore neck and shoulder, a sore jaw(!) and a bloody big headache.

Change ya cleats on time, people!


I know you're in pain man, and you probably don't think it's funny - but I did man. Thanks for sharing this story.

In a pass time as often-dangerous as ours, it's hard to believe you'd do one of the worst injuries using the pisser at the coffee shop.

I hope you feel better dude.
fatdudeonabike
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:44 am

Dangerous. :D

Oh you were talking about walking in cleats.
Percrime
 
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:41 am

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:23 am

fatdudeonabike wrote:
GeoffInBrisbane wrote:Aaaand today's idiot cyclist was me, for not changing my cleats when I should have done. All the anti-slip stuff was worn away. This resulted in a spectacular stack...in the coffee shop. :lol:

Had a coffee at Cleveland Point, decided I would make use of the facilities before we left, walked out the back towards the loos. Down two steps onto the concrete floor (which sloped away from the steps slightly, just for added fun), feet slipped. Both legs went out in front of me, was fully airborne. Crashed down on my elbows and then the back of my head. A nice lady rushed to my aid and got some ice (I was somewhat groggily struggling to my feet).

I'd love to say my pride took the worst battering, but it really really hurt. Turns out solid ground floor concrete doesn't have much give in it. The 40km back to Brisbane was not the most fun I've had on a bike (although thanks are due to my riding buddies who looked after me and did all the work). I've got a very sore wrist, two mildly bruised elbows, a sore neck and shoulder, a sore jaw(!) and a bloody big headache.

Change ya cleats on time, people!


I know you're in pain man, and you probably don't think it's funny - but I did man. Thanks for sharing this story.

In a pass time as often-dangerous as ours, it's hard to believe you'd do one of the worst injuries using the pisser at the coffee shop.

I hope you feel better dude.


:lol: Thanks for putting it like that! :lol:
User avatar
GeoffInBrisbane
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:29 am

Mandatory helmet required for cyclists in coffee shops :lol:
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Toddy



Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers