The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby familyguy » Wed May 01, 2013 1:10 pm

AndrewBurns wrote:So why did you close shave him? Impatient and trying to pass without changing lanes?


Outed myself here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=58039&start=1600#p961328

Double-merging cars left me with not as much margin as I thought I'd get. Speed differential was probably approaching 40km/h as well, cause he was spinning small ring triple up a short rise in 70 zone here: https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Warri ... 93.91,,0,0

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by BNA » Wed May 01, 2013 1:18 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby familyguy » Wed May 01, 2013 1:18 pm

hannos wrote:
familyguy wrote: "you can't do that if you're under 12 you know!" (he's wrong, I believe, in NSW it's 14).
Jim



Definitely 12 years

250–1 NSW rule: children under 12 years not to ride on certain footpaths


The parent part to that clause is the one, I stand corrected as 12 years or older (my emphasis):

Legislation wrote:250 Riding on a footpath or shared path

(1) The rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older must not ride on a footpath unless:
(a) if the rider is an adult—the rider is accompanying a child under 12 years of age who is riding on the footpath and the child is under the rider’s supervision, or
(b) if the rider is not an adult—the rider is under the supervision of an accompanying adult as referred to in paragraph (a), or
(c) the rider is a postal worker who is riding the bicycle in the course of his or her duties as a postal worker.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

Note 1. Footpath and postal worker are defined in the Dictionary.
Note 2. Subrule (1) is not uniform with the corresponding subrule in rule 250 of the Australian Road Rules. However, the corresponding subrule in the Australian Road Rules allows another law of this jurisdiction to prohibit a rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older from riding on a footpath. Different rules may apply in other Australian jurisdictions.
Note 3. A rider of a bicycle who is under 12 years of age may ride on a footpath unless such a rider is prohibited from doing so under rule 250–1 or rule 252.
(2) The rider of a bicycle riding on a footpath or shared path must:
(a) keep to the left of the footpath or shared path unless it is impracticable to do so, and
(b) give way to any pedestrian on the footpath or shared path.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

Note 1. Pedestrian is defined in rule 18, and shared path is defined in rule 242.
Note 2. For subrule (2), give way means the rider must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision—see the definition in the Dictionary.
(3) In this rule:
adult means an individual who is 18 years old or older.

Note. There is no corresponding definition for this term for the purposes of rule 250 of the Australian Road Rules. The definition is required for the purposes of subrule (1) (a) and (b).
footpath does not include a separated footpath.

Note. Separated footpath is defined in rule 239.


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby michaelkn » Wed May 01, 2013 1:31 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby queequeg » Wed May 01, 2013 2:39 pm

find_bruce wrote:
biker jk wrote:Three cyclists were pulled up by a policeman with a radar gun at a 40kmh school zone along Oxford St Paddington this morning. He gave them a warning and let them off. I presume they were doing over 40kmh but my understanding is that speed limits aren't enforceable for cyclists so perhaps he considered they were riding dangerously?

Your understanding, whilst common even among police, is incorrect.
find_bruce wrote:Can I be booked for speeding on a bicycle?
Yes – the reference to a driver includes a cyclist and you are required to comply with applicable speed limits. (rule 20) In relation to bike paths or shared paths, there may be scope to argue that they are not part of a road related area. There may also be issues about whether the particular speed limit sign was put up with the correct authority.
NSW the usual way of dealing with speeding offences though is to issue a penalty notice in accordance with the [url]Road Transport (General) Regulation 2005 (NSW)[/url]. In relation to speeding (road rule 20) they are set out by reference to the class of motor vehicle. Because a bicycle is not a motor vehicle of any class, a police officer cannot issue a penalty notice for speeding on a bicycle. Accordingly the only way to enforce speed limits in relation to a cyclist is to issue a court attendance notice. If the offence is proven, a cyclist who exceeds the speed limit by 30 km per hour or less will be liable to a fine, which may be as high as $2,200, but probably much less.
NSW Road Rules 2008 20 Obeying the speed limit
A driver must not drive at a speed over the speed limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver is driving.

A driver includes a rider and the rule applies to all vehicles, not just motor vehicles

The difference between issuing a penalty notice or having to issue a court attendance notice is subtle but important. Issuing a court attendance notice means more work for the cop which in turns means they are less likely to charge you.
VRE wrote:
jasonc wrote:[quote="VRE"]Speed limits apply to cyclists and motorists equally.

True. Only problem being there is no ADR requirement to have a calibrated speedo. i.e. take fine to court. "sorry your honour, I don't have a calibrated/approved speedo". Case dismissed
They are better off booking you for "no warning device" (a bell is $6, put one on your bike), or dangerous/careless riding.

Good point. I'd forgotten about the speedo calibration requirement. It will be interesting to see if having an approved speedo on a bike ever becomes a requirement...

Sorry that is not the way these offences work. Speeding, like almost all traffic matters, is a strict liability offence. While you may be able to establish a defence of mistake of fact, that would require you to establish that you had an honest and reasonable belief that you were travelling under the speed limit, not that you were ignorant of your speed.

The absence of any requirement for a speedo was no impediment to West Australian police fining a speeding cyclist last year[/quote]

Is a police radar device certified for use with bicycles/cyclists? What do they use as the target, and what is the margin of error?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Wed May 01, 2013 2:42 pm

Perhaps you need to tell the police they are wrong?

"City Central Local Area Command Traffic Sergeant Stewart Lockrey said cyclists were not being picked up for speeding.

He said speeding was an offence that doesn't technically exist for bike riders, who can instead be fined for riding negligently or dangerously."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/a-bridge-too-fast-police-target--unsafe--cyclists--but-not-for-speeding-20120307-1uj6c.html
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 01, 2013 5:13 pm

queequeg wrote:Is a police radar device certified for use with bicycles/cyclists? What do they use as the target, and what is the margin of error?

Very good questions, to which I have no answer. It reportedly cost John Busuttil more than $60,000 & an appeal to the District Court to obtain his answer.

biker jk wrote:Perhaps you need to tell the police they are wrong?

"City Central Local Area Command Traffic Sergeant Stewart Lockrey said cyclists were not being picked up for speeding.

He said speeding was an offence that doesn't technically exist for bike riders, who can instead be fined for riding negligently or dangerously."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/a-bridge-too- ... 1uj6c.html

I am aware of the comments attributed to Sergeant Lockrey, & had some things to say about it at the time.

My only interest is in ensuring cyclists are aware of the fact that they are not immune from prosecution for speeding. If the Police do not book cyclists, that is no concern of mine.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby KonaCommuter » Wed May 01, 2013 6:08 pm

From Japan


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Wed May 01, 2013 7:46 pm

One lady was out walking her dogs tonight at dusk - I was riding along. I slowed down... Then I saw the dogs, not restrained at all. The pair of the vicious little things proceeded to chase me - and I'm sure would have attacked me by the growling and angry barking. The lady plainly had no control over them at all. :evil:

Why should a pedestrian and her dogs not on a leash (in violation of all the council rules in the area) make me have to ride at 40+km/h just so I don't have my legs ripped to pieces by vicious dogs. If they'd attacked me - I can assure you I would have done everything in my power to render them neutral. And then I'd feel shattered that I had to do such a thing. :(

Anyhow - I outran them. Thank god nobody else was going the other way or they'd have crashed straight into the vicious things.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Thu May 02, 2013 10:54 am

KonaCommuter wrote:From Japan




I'm pretty sure those zebra crossings over there have the same meaning as the ones here. That car driver should have been able to stop better than they did. I guess it was dumb that the kid didn't check, but he is a kid and if he had right of way I don't think he should be called 'dumb'. Learning curve for the kid though.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby familyguy » Thu May 02, 2013 12:01 pm

Learning curve for the driver too, perhaps?

This is the repealed regulation regarding ped X'ings: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... 0/s81.html

austlii wrote:This legislation has been repealed.

AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES - REG 81

Giving way at a pedestrian crossing
81 Giving way at a pedestrian crossing

(1) A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must drive at a speed at which the driver can, if necessary, stop safely before the crossing.

Penalty: Offence provision.
Note: "Pedestrian crossing" is defined in subrule (3).

(2) A driver must give way to any pedestrian on a pedestrian crossing.

Penalty: Offence provision.
Note: For this rule, "give way" means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision-see the definition in the dictionary.

(3) A "pedestrian crossing" is an area of a road:
(a) at a place that has a pedestrian crossing sign (with or without alternating flashing twin yellow lights), and
(b) indicated by white stripes on the road surface that are:
(i) approximately parallel to each other, and
(ii) from one side of the road completely or partly across the road.



Regardless of law, I've taught my kids to wait at crossings till people have seen you. My great grandmother apparently tested this law and got knocked down and killed.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby RoFlmaTiC » Thu May 02, 2013 12:30 pm

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... 4/s81.html

It was simply put into NSW specific regs:

81 Giving way at a pedestrian crossing

(1) A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must drive at a speed at which the driver can, if necessary, stop safely before the crossing.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
Note:
"Pedestrian crossing" is defined in subrule (3).
(2) A driver must give way to any pedestrian on a pedestrian crossing.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
Note: For this rule,
"give way" means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision-see the definition in the Dictionary.
(3) A
"pedestrian crossing" is an area of a road:
(a) at a place with white stripes on the road surface that:
(i) run lengthwise along the road, and
(ii) are of approximately the same length, and
(iii) are approximately parallel to each other, and
(iv) are in a row that extends completely, or partly, across the road, and
(b) with or without either or both of the following:
(i) a pedestrian crossing sign,
(ii) alternating flashing twin yellow lights.
Note:
"Twin yellow lights" is defined in the Dictionary.
Note: Rule 322 (3) and (4) deal with the meaning of a traffic sign a place.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby burger » Thu May 02, 2013 12:52 pm

familyguy wrote:Regardless of law, I've taught my kids to wait at crossings till people have seen you. My great grandmother apparently tested this law and got knocked down and killed.
Jim

Same over here, though I am still teaching my boys and it was my Mum who was knocked over. Fortunately she was only bruised.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Thu May 02, 2013 1:03 pm

familyguy wrote:Regardless of law, I've taught my kids to wait at crossings till people have seen you. My great grandmother apparently tested this law and got knocked down and killed.

Road Rule 81 is still in the same terms Jim & yes I do the same. Many people will remember Sophie Delizio whose second "accident" happened while she was being pushed across a pedestrian crossing in a wheelchair. The fact that the driver pleaded guilty to dangerous driving occasioning GBH did not alleviate her injuries, being a heart attack, a broken jaw, a broken shoulder, bruising to her head, numerous rib fractures and a tear to her left lung.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Thu May 02, 2013 2:50 pm

Anyone want to find the Japanese equivalent legislation regarding zebra crossings considering the video is from Japan? :lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Thu May 02, 2013 4:25 pm

Wasn't wearing a helmet. Still, it was a fair while ago.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... g=Walhalla
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Huggies » Thu May 02, 2013 10:02 pm

Yes teenage boy you think you could get away with activating the Airzound on my bike whilst I was heading up the Travelator at Morayfield Shopping Center tonight.

Frankly you're a *&#$ing idiot if you didn't think I would hear it. Your mates are also idiots for thinking they could verbally threaten me after I told you to "pi$$ off" from the center. The last laugh is on you when I got the lot of you booted from the center this evening. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Fri May 03, 2013 6:48 am

KonaCommuter wrote:From Japan




I see no pedestrian, just a cyclist who failed to give way to traffic.


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby KonaCommuter » Fri May 03, 2013 8:42 am

twizzle wrote:
KonaCommuter wrote:From Japan




I see no pedestrian, just a cyclist who failed to give way to traffic.


Sent from my iThingy...




I see a sharp motorist whose reflexes compensated for a child's lack of experience/comprehension
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Fri May 03, 2013 9:37 am

I may have called an inattentive Brisbane City Council worker an unpleasant word this morning as he was crossing the road looking back where he came from :shock:
he yelled out "come back here"
my response "come and get me"
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Fri May 03, 2013 9:42 am

twizzle wrote:I see no pedestrian, just a cyclist who failed to give way to traffic.


And I see somebody who has little knowledge of bicycling in Japan and their road rules. :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri May 03, 2013 9:51 am

jasonc wrote:I may have called an inattentive Brisbane City Council worker an unpleasant word this morning as he was crossing the road looking back where he came from :shock:
he yelled out "come back here"
my response "come and get me"



:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Fri May 03, 2013 11:16 am

Huggies wrote:Yes teenage boy you think you could get away with activating the Airzound on my bike whilst I was heading up the Travelator at Morayfield Shopping Center tonight.

Frankly you're a *&#$ing idiot if you didn't think I would hear it. Your mates are also idiots for thinking they could verbally threaten me after I told you to "pi$$ off" from the center. The last laugh is on you when I got the lot of you booted from the center this evening. :mrgreen:


I'm intrigued. Tell me more. How would you not have heard the AZ if you were standing beside the bicycle when they tried to activate it?

Nice work getting them kicked out of the centre. :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby VRE » Fri May 03, 2013 11:20 am

Summernight wrote:
Huggies wrote:Yes teenage boy you think you could get away with activating the Airzound on my bike whilst I was heading up the Travelator at Morayfield Shopping Center tonight.

Frankly you're a *&#$ing idiot if you didn't think I would hear it. Your mates are also idiots for thinking they could verbally threaten me after I told you to "pi$$ off" from the center. The last laugh is on you when I got the lot of you booted from the center this evening. :mrgreen:


I'm intrigued. Tell me more. How would you not have heard the AZ if you were standing beside the bicycle when they tried to activate it?

Nice work getting them kicked out of the centre. :)

He wasn't next to the bike, he was heading up the 'travelator' :) . I think it would have been really cool to ride the bike up the travelator, but that moment of fun would most likely have been quickly spoiled by the fun police.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Fri May 03, 2013 11:32 am

human909 wrote:
twizzle wrote:I see no pedestrian, just a cyclist who failed to give way to traffic.


And I see somebody who has little knowledge of bicycling in Japan and their road rules. :wink: :mrgreen:


Looking in the mirror again?

Japan requires cyclists to dismount to use a pedestrian crossing unless it is marked for bicycle use - basically the same rules as in Australia.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Fri May 03, 2013 11:34 am

twizzle wrote:Japan requires cyclists to dismount to use a pedestrian crossing unless it is marked for bicycle use - basically the same rules as in Australia.


Sounds like the bell law. The reality is much different!
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