The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Bah77 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:21 pm


This is the one that had me thinking, even though there were heaps more doing it (and a few running with traffic), just he was right at the apex as i was coming around the corner. Really is nothing in it, and its a pretty minor gripe if it even raises to the level of gripe.
I remember being taught in primary school to always walk against traffic
I rode my bike against traffic too when i was a kid, before i knew better.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:25 pm

ldrcycles wrote:I remember being taught in primary school to always walk against traffic if there was no footpath and you had to walk on the road.


Same here. Always walk against traffic so you can take avoiding action or to step out of the way of traffic then resume when clear but only if there was no footpath or no walkable nature strip available.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Bah77 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:33 pm

Also nice parking, on a curve, apex, and intersection.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby trailgumby » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:54 pm

Bah77 wrote:Is it a dumb pedestrian thing when runners run against traffic?

No, it's the smart thing. NO, I am not being facetious.

As a runner, you can't avoid what you're looking away from.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Bah77 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:11 pm

Ive seen that same argument used when someone suggests cyclists ride against traffic, not that i disagree with you.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby redned » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:22 pm

Bah77 wrote:Ive seen that same argument used when someone suggests cyclists ride against traffic, not that i disagree with you.

The difference is that cyclists are traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby citywomble » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:42 pm

This is one area of the various road traffic codes that is consistent across states.

A pedestrian is not permitted to walk in the road, other than to cross by the shortest route, while there is a suitable footpath or verge. Where there is not, and this the the case on Coot-tha, then a pedestrian is REQUIRED by law to walk, or run on the opposite side facing oncoming traffic. This would also include a motorised gopher, wheelchairs, pushchairs etc, although more likely to be seen in built up areas.

To avoid confusion, and because pedestrians are required to walk on the right facing traffic when in the road, that is also why (in WA at least) pedestrians are allowed to walk on the right on a shared path and only advised to walk on the left.

Finally, pedestrians are also traffic (which is why they are covered by the road traffic codes) but they are not vehicles - that is the main difference.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Ross » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:50 pm

On my commute home on Friday on shared path there was a pedestrian girl (late teen/early 20s) stopped in the middle of the bike path for several minutes fiddling with her iDevice (I'm a technophobe so dont know if it was 'phone or 'pod but it looked like she was doing something with music) wjle several bikes including me weaved around her. I gave her plenty of room when I passed, some other riders didn't, but she didn't bat an eyelid at anyone.I reckon you could of driven a road train within a metre of her and she wouldn't of noticed. :roll:

Saw a guy on a bike this morning with a red flashing light on the rear of his bike and a flashing white light facing the rear on his helmet. :?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bychosis » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:22 pm

Ross wrote:
Saw a guy on a bike this morning with a red flashing light on the rear of his bike and a flashing white light facing the rear on his helmet. :?


Some days it just feels like your head is on the wrong way....

Saw my local 'jogger with personal safety disregard' (mentioned previosuly in this thread) following this run toward oncoming traffic a couple of days ago on the apex of a corner that most cars shave, when there was plenty of flat grass to detour onto for a few steps.

Agree that peds should walk towards oncoming traffic, on roads, however there are plenty of occasions where it would be more prudent to choose an alternative, keeping in mind things like sight distance for vehicles, escape routes etc. walking towards traffic on a tight blind apex whe there is an alternative on the side with your back to the traffic. Some folk (not here) have suggested walking toward vehicles for shared paths too, but I can't see it working there. Is easier to overtake peds, than to dodge them oncoming. Peds on road take a small portion of the road, where they take a significant portion of a shared path.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Bah77 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:50 pm

citywomble wrote: then a pedestrian is REQUIRED by law to walk, or run on the opposite side facing oncoming traffic.
Well now i know, i wasnt sure, as i said i was just thinking about it, and it seemed 50/50 as to which side people decided to run/walk on.
And yes i would rather see the cyclist coming down the road, than get a sudden shock when he flies past silently at 50km/h, hell i sometimes get startled when they silently overtake me while riding and i have semi zoned out due to effort or whatever.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:55 pm

lobstermash wrote:I have a stretch of shared pathway on my commute that's completely unlit. Pitch black. The number of people dressed in black from head to toe, walking black dogs on black leashes after dusk along there is astonishing. Coupled with the two wheeled spotlighters, I'm surprised I haven't collected anyone along there yet, even though I do take it slow (and it's down hill). Athllon Drive in Canberra for those familiar...


I actually stopped once and thanked a guy for (a) wearing a vest and (b) having a light up leash and collar on his dog while he was walking it. It makes so much of a difference when people are active about their visibility.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Wakatuki » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:12 am

With regard to Joggers, for my sins this is an activity I have taken up (prepares to duck and weave), what's next, swimming!

I have to let you know concrete footpaths really take their toll on your legs, grass sucks up your speed and strength, although a nice temporary cushioning. Tarmac does have some give, certainly more than concrete. I always stay close to the curb where safe, however keep fit walkers in the road do frustrate me, one old guy on my estate is almost in the middle of the road and to his right is a near new concrete path. :roll:

I did a 10k run Sunday (I had to split it at the 8K mark but that's another story) most of it has no footpath, on the gravel road I ran in the middle but towards the right where less deep gravel gathers, however in the act of self preservation there are some tight twists so rather than shock a motorist or cyclist zooming around a blind left corner I switch road sides to prevent wiping out, road rage or driver shock and run with the traffic.
No iPods on, so I can hear things too. At night I attach a flashing red knog to my left hip and run so it's closest to the traffic so it can be seen front and back and a headlamp up front on the head, I do bow my head as the car gets closer to prevent them getting blind and in return them not flashing lights and blinding me! All in non ninja clothing.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby cp123 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:02 am

Hey Lobster - you go the same way I do. and I agree with you 100%. :D


One night a week i walk on a shared recreational path with no other lights to get to my car. as i have a bike light on the back of my backpack i flick that on so i won't (hopefully) get run over from behind. I also have a greenish shade of flasher that i bung around my right wrist to let oncoming bikes/other ninjas i'm there. i've had cyclists and other peds say "wow - good idea". well, I just want to say derrr - nobody can see you if you're dressed in death black. And given I have then anyway, it doesn't cost anything. i wish more peds would do it.

Often when i'm riding I only see the glowing X files eyes of radioactive looking dogs as my only clue that someone is ahead and walking towards me.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby lobstermash » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:16 am

I heard on the radio a few weeks back that people were giving out bike lights in Gareema Pl. They need to hand them out to peds too I reckon... I'd even be happy to carry a big stack of cheapies and hand them out to peds following near misses...
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Wakatuki » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:30 am

lobstermash wrote:I heard on the radio a few weeks back that people were giving out bike lights in Gareema Pl. They need to hand them out to peds too I reckon... I'd even be happy to carry a big stack of cheapies and hand them out to peds following near misses...


+1 Leds cost bugger all and a life saver, just a simple flasher, love the Knogs as an additional flasher, very versatile.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Xenon » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:07 pm

I came across a young lady walking her dog tonight; not only was she wearing white, but the dog was wearing a reflective hi-viz vest :). I was very impressed.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:46 pm

ldrcycles wrote:I remember being taught in primary school to always walk against traffic if there was no footpath and you had to walk on the road.

For some reason however we cyclists see pedestrians walking on a shared path against the flow as being somehow arrogant and annoying. I would certainly put the Riverside Drive PSP on my list of places where it is best to walk against the flow. I am always experiencing riders in ones and two slicing between oncoming riders and peds.

When I was riding in Mauritius when on a highway approaching a bend with limited line of sight I would most often put myself on the outside of that bend. A driver coming around a bend at, say, 70kph onto the back of someone doing 10kph is not a good thing. We have better clearer roads generally in Oz but occasionally I will find it wise to do the same locally when out of the suburbs.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:25 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:I remember being taught in primary school to always walk against traffic if there was no footpath and you had to walk on the road.

For some reason however we cyclists see pedestrians walking on a shared path against the flow as being somehow arrogant and annoying. I would certainly put the Riverside Drive PSP on my list of places where it is best to walk against the flow. I am always experiencing riders in ones and two slicing between oncoming riders and peds.

When I was riding in Mauritius when on a highway approaching a bend with limited line of sight I would most often put myself on the outside of that bend. A driver coming around a bend at, say, 70kph onto the back of someone doing 10kph is not a good thing. We have better clearer roads generally in Oz but occasionally I will find it wise to do the same locally when out of the suburbs.


It has absolutely no effect on slicing through by cyclists. All it does is change the side that they pass you on, making whatever it is you wanted to achieve pointless. The reason that people walk on the wrong side of a road is to vacate the roadway altogether for motorists. That is not the operation that is in effect on a sharepath. Also I have observed it appears to cause the pedestrian you are walking towards, to step sideways blindly to get around you, so you may well find yourself observing more collisions if you keep doing this.

The most compelling reason I saw for not doing this happened to me the week before last on Union St cycleway. Woman jogging up the wrong side of the path, had a bicycle 5m behind her. I had absolutely no choice but to stop as they were both doing 25 and I was doing 30 (I'd never have shot that gap), and she got huffy about me not moving out of her way. If she'd ran up the left side of the path, we wouldn't have that problem, and the cyclist behind her (who did wait for the safe moment to pass) would still have had to wait for a safe moment to pass regardless.

What you need to do as a cyclist, who intends remaining on the roadway on the inside of a sharp corner, is remain wide enough in the corner to be visible, until the point you might let the motorist through occurs. ie if there is a gap in traffic, there is no reason you can't be 1m from the centerline, even if you intend on pulling all the way to the left when a car comes up behind you, or whether you intend claiming the lane on an ongoing basis.
Last edited by zero on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:17 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:I remember being taught in primary school to always walk against traffic if there was no footpath and you had to walk on the road.

For some reason however we cyclists see pedestrians walking on a shared path against the flow as being somehow arrogant and annoying. I would certainly put the Riverside Drive PSP on my list of places where it is best to walk against the flow. I am always experiencing riders in ones and two slicing between oncoming riders and peds.

When I was riding in Mauritius when on a highway approaching a bend with limited line of sight I would most often put myself on the outside of that bend. A driver coming around a bend at, say, 70kph onto the back of someone doing 10kph is not a good thing. We have better clearer roads generally in Oz but occasionally I will find it wise to do the same locally when out of the suburbs.


The problem with pedestrians walking on the wrong side is that you don't know if they are going to stay there or not. Even if you go slow, they can still knock you over.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:38 pm

The other problem is that its idiotic. You know the situation your grandparents were talking about when they were taught that? It was walking on a country road. In a 100 zone One with maybe a car every half hour. And no verges... shoulder or footpath. In which case walking facing oncoming traffic makes perfect sense. And thats the only time it does.


Let me just reiterate that. ANYONE who translates that to a shared path with hundreds of people going past any point a day is really really really not smart.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Laidlaym » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:39 pm

Percrime wrote:The other problem is that its idiotic. You know the situation your grandparents were talking about when they were taught that? It was walking on a country road. In a 100 zone One with maybe a car every half hour. And no verges... shoulder or footpath. In which case walking facing oncoming traffic makes perfect sense. And thats the only time it does.


Let me just reiterate that. ANYONE who translates that to a shared path with hundreds of people going past any point a day is really really really not smart.


No speed limit on open roads when I was taught that, no KPH either.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Biffidus » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:59 pm

It's much better to walk on the left - cyclists approach from behind and can ride (slowly) behind you until a gap appears. If you walk on the right then either you or the oncoming cyclist has to take evasive action or you both have to wait (or collide).
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:03 pm

zero wrote:It has absolutely no effect on slicing through by cyclists. All it does is change the side that they pass you on, making whatever it is you wanted to achieve pointless. The reason that people walk on the wrong side of a road is to vacate the roadway altogether for motorists. That is not the operation that is in effect on a sharepath. Also I have observed it appears to cause the pedestrian you are walking towards, to step sideways blindly to get around you, so you may well find yourself observing more collisions if you keep doing this.

I didn't think it need explaining but something seems to have been lost in the translation so here goes.

I agree, it has no effect on cyclists that are cutting it fine. A tool is a tool whatever. But when a ped sees some ignoramus heading towards them is gonna cut it fine, then that ped can at least step off the path onto the shoulder, the mud, whatever. Exactly why the safety talks to kids in the past advised them to walk into the traffic.

  • If peds are walking against the direction of flow and sees (say) me coming at them from the front then they will ignore me - I'll will move to the other side as I pass. However if some coming up behind them on th3e side opposite them and me I can't move over, the peds see me on collision course then step off the path. The peds see it all happening and can take evasive action.
  • If peds are instead walking with the flow and they see me coming towards them, I'm not a threat. UNTIL the tool in a hurry coming behind the peds wants to pass without slowing. The peds have no idea that he is there and that he will cut it fine by slicing between them and me. Being a cyclist I am unlikely to be deviating off the path. Close encounter of the worst kind is likely

Your statement "That is not the operation that is in effect on a sharepath" has me confused.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:14 pm

Biffidus wrote:It's much better to walk on the left - cyclists approach from behind and can ride (slowly) behind you until a gap appears. If you walk on the right then either you or the oncoming cyclist has to take evasive action or you both have to wait (or collide).

Sorry Biff but you are in an alternate universe.

Yeah, no problem at all. IF cyclists approaching from behind DO ride slowly behind you until a gap appears. The problem peds face many times each walk is the rider that simply times his motion to slide between them and another oncoming rider or oncoming ped.

Regardless of your own riding ettiquette, pls don't deny that those riders are there, in numbers. And it is THOSE riders are what should determine the action of peds taking responsibility for their own safety.

I have never judged such peds adversely but amny cyclists do. Those peds are not arrogant, selfish or spoiling for a fight. They are simply the smarter peds.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby BandedRail » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:05 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
Biffidus wrote:It's much better to walk on the left - cyclists approach from behind and can ride (slowly) behind you until a gap appears. If you walk on the right then either you or the oncoming cyclist has to take evasive action or you both have to wait (or collide).

Sorry Biff but you are in an alternate universe.

Yeah, no problem at all. IF cyclists approaching from behind DO ride slowly behind you until a gap appears. The problem peds face many times each walk is the rider that simply times his motion to slide between them and another oncoming rider or oncoming ped.

Regardless of your own riding ettiquette, pls don't deny that those riders are there, in numbers. And it is THOSE riders are what should determine the action of peds taking responsibility for their own safety.

I have never judged such peds adversely but amny cyclists do. Those peds are not arrogant, selfish or spoiling for a fight. They are simply the smarter peds.


Sorry Colin but I think it is you who is in an alternate universe. I've seen this situation unfold several times now - pedestrians walking on the right meets a cyclist coming towards them - cyclist stops as they see a cyclist coming from the opposite direction - pedestrians put nose in air (for real, they actually did this) and step onto the opposite side of the path without looking causing the other cyclist to take evasive action. Yet another close call and not because the cyclists were behaving badly. Pedestrians can walk on the wrong side of the ROAD if there is no footpath or nature strip (amazing how they forget that last clause) but it doesn't scale to shared paths - oncoming traffic doesn't have the room to manouver as they would on a road. Two wrongs don't make a right, having pedestrians on shared paths behaving badly isn't going to stop some cylists behaving badly - it will just make things worse for cylists who are trying to do the right thing.
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