The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:54 am

blkmcs wrote:
biker jk wrote:The legislation you point to relates to roads not shared paths. The document I linked under "Shared Path Rules" says "Riders and pedestrians must keep left on shared paths and footpaths unless overtaking" [my emphasis added].
\
The section I quoted is relevant to this discussion because in earlier posts walking on the road facing oncoming traffic was dismissed as being from a bygone age when in fact it is still a requirement under current legislation. I did point out that it relates to carriageways.

In case you missed it the first time, I'll say it again. The document you quoted is advice only, it is not the legislation.
Show me where in the legislation it says that pedestrians must keep left and I'll give due consideration to changing my walking habits.


You said "Whether or not a shared path is a carriageway I'll leave to others to decide." suggesting ambiguity on whether the referenced law applies to shared paths when clearly this isn't the case.

You are correct about there being no law for pedestrians to keep left on shared paths but then again you can't legislate for common sense on everything and so logical rules can continue to be broken.
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by BNA » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:06 am

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby blkmcs » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:06 am

warthog1 wrote:
blkmcs wrote:
In case you missed it the first time, I'll say it again. The document you quoted is advice only, it is not the legislation.
Show me where in the legislation it says that pedestrians must keep left and I'll give due consideration to changing my walking habits.


So you'll ignore any painted dividing lines and directional lines also. After all they are only advice or pretty decorations on the pathway.
You'll also disregard the whole keep left convention that is common knowledge and analogous from the road system. Perhaps you choose to ride your bicycle against the traffic on the right hand side of the road also, so you can see any on coming traffic, and swerve to avoid it.


When dividing lines or directional lines relate to my mode of transport then of course I will take account of them, I have never suggested otherwise.

As to the keep left convention being "analogous from the road system" perhaps you missed this extract from the Road Traffic Code in my earlier post.

http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/st ... epage.html

Part 14 starting on page 216 deals with pedestrians.
Section 203 (3) & (4) are of interest.

(3) A pedestrian travelling along a carriageway —
(a) shall, where practicable, travel on the carriageway, or on
the side of the carriageway, used by vehicles travelling
in the opposite direction and keep as far to the right side
of the carriageway as is practicable;
and
(b) shall not travel on the carriageway alongside more than
one other pedestrian or vehicle travelling on the
carriageway in the same direction as the pedestrian,
unless the pedestrian is overtaking other pedestrians.
Modified penalty: 1 PU
(4) Despite subregulation (3), where a vehicle approaches a
pedestrian on a carriageway, on the same side as the pedestrian,
then the pedestrian shall, if possible, immediately move off the
carriageway, and shall not move back onto the carriageway,
until the vehicle has passed him or her.
Modified penalty: 1 PU

If you are suggesting that pedestrians should follow the same rules on the shared paths then clearly all pedestrians should walk on the right facing oncoming bicycles.

Extrapolating walking on the right to riding a bike on the right is plainly ridiculous and adds nothing of value to the discussion.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Around and around it goes...

Meanwhile I'd like to praise some 20 or so excellent pedestrians on the shared path between Reconciliation Road and Prospect Dam. They stayed obediently to the left of the path, not straying over the centre line at all.

What was so special about them? They were a herd of goats! :shock: :lol: If it weren't pouring down, I'd have taking photos of them.

They can't even read rules or signs, yet they stayed left of the dividing line. :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:20 pm

blkmcs wrote:
If you are suggesting that pedestrians should follow the same rules on the shared paths then clearly all pedestrians should walk on the right facing oncoming bicycles.

Extrapolating walking on the right to riding a bike on the right is plainly ridiculous and adds nothing of value to the discussion.


No I was suggesting pedestrians on shared paths are similar to bicycles on the road, they are the slower moving mode of transport.
I don't know about you but I don't regularly see pedestrians on the road, that's why I didn't use that as an analogy.

In any case the very fact that I am discussing this on a cycling forum with a cyclist, who as I read it advocates pedestrians walk on the right hand side of a shared pathway, confirms that shared pathways as a concept are a dismal failure. I'll continue to stay well away from them.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:21 pm

g-boaf wrote:Around and around it goes...

Meanwhile I'd like to praise some 20 or so excellent pedestrians on the shared path between Reconciliation Road and Prospect Dam. They stayed obediently to the left of the path, not straying over the centre line at all.

What was so special about them? They were a herd of goats! :shock: :lol: If it weren't pouring down, I'd have taking photos of them.

They can't even read rules or signs, yet they stayed left of the dividing line. :)


:lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:37 pm

It was a sight alright! Herd of goats moving at glacial speed followed by a drenched and cold guy in muddy gear and even more dirty bike hollering at these goats to keep moving! :lol: Made up for the miserable rainy weather. :)

Mehhhh....
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:42 pm

warthog1 wrote:
blkmcs wrote:
If you are suggesting that pedestrians should follow the same rules on the shared paths then clearly all pedestrians should walk on the right facing oncoming bicycles.

Extrapolating walking on the right to riding a bike on the right is plainly ridiculous and adds nothing of value to the discussion.


No I was suggesting pedestrians on shared paths are similar to bicycles on the road, they are the slower moving mode of transport.
I don't know about you but I don't regularly see pedestrians on the road, that's why I didn't use that as an analogy.

In any case the very fact that I am discussing this on a cycling forum with a cyclist, who as I read it advocates pedestrians walk on the right hand side of a shared pathway, confirms that shared pathways as a concept are a dismal failure. I'll continue to stay well away from them.


Your last sentence is indeed a sensible conclusion. I used to ride the Cooks River Cycleway (Sydney) quite regularly many years ago and the chaos created by pedestrians (walking three abreast, walking on the wrong side, stopping in the middle of the path, listening to music and oblivious to the world, dogs not on leashes, etc.) was a nightmare. The local councils did try to educate by installing signs advising pedestrians to keep left, etc. but these were ignored. So now the signs focus on instructing cyclists to give way to pedestrians and suggest the Cooks River Cycleway isn't really suitable for commuting.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Hergest » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:54 pm

g-boaf wrote:Around and around it goes...

Meanwhile I'd like to praise some 20 or so excellent pedestrians on the shared path between Reconciliation Road and Prospect Dam. They stayed obediently to the left of the path, not straying over the centre line at all.

What was so special about them? They were a herd of goats! :shock: :lol: If it weren't pouring down, I'd have taking photos of them.

They can't even read rules or signs, yet they stayed left of the dividing line. :)



How about that? You can often spot one or two high up on the slopes of the old quarry but i've never seen any down by the path and certainly not in the number you came across.

I salute your keenness going out in this run of weather.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:50 pm

Hergest wrote: You can often spot one or two high up on the slopes


High on a hill was a lonely goat etc :lol: .

And fingy, I bet that gave your heart rate a decent spike, why would anyone try something like that through there, no visibility at all!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:04 pm

Hergest wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Around and around it goes...

Meanwhile I'd like to praise some 20 or so excellent pedestrians on the shared path between Reconciliation Road and Prospect Dam. They stayed obediently to the left of the path, not straying over the centre line at all.

What was so special about them? They were a herd of goats! :shock: :lol: If it weren't pouring down, I'd have taking photos of them.

They can't even read rules or signs, yet they stayed left of the dividing line. :)



How about that? You can often spot one or two high up on the slopes of the old quarry but i've never seen any down by the path and certainly not in the number you came across.

I salute your keenness going out in this run of weather.


I'm not feeling so keen now. Sniffles and sore throat. :( dosing up on Vitamin C and keeping warm. If it weren't for the slowing down (6km/h) when going through big puddles of water I reckon I'd have set a few PRs today.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby mattwilkinson » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:01 pm



dumb cyclist? wow.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:08 am

Looks like Russia - and if so it is probably a setup.

Like those car chases in the Russian traffic are promo videos to get their drivers stunt driving jobs in movies...

Anyone going to send this video through to Duncan Gay MP and NRMA? :twisted: I want to see the original video in original context, rather than what looks like a re-post on YouTube to frame it in a different context.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Biffidus » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:22 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Yeah, no problem at all. IF cyclists approaching from behind DO ride slowly behind you until a gap appears. The problem peds face many times each walk is the rider that simply times his motion to slide between them and another oncoming rider or oncoming ped.

I can only speak for my own experience and I find that the peds walking towards me are far more disruptive (and far more likely to unexpectedly step in front of a cyclist coming up from behind them as someone else suggested) than those walking on the left. I find the best way to deter close shaves is to carry a large umbrella :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:30 pm

g-boaf wrote:Looks like Russia - and if so it is probably a setup.

Like those car chases in the Russian traffic are promo videos to get their drivers stunt driving jobs in movies...

Anyone going to send this video through to Duncan Gay MP and NRMA? :twisted: I want to see the original video in original context, rather than what looks like a re-post on YouTube to frame it in a different context.


There is no reason for it to be a setup, and during peak hour you could do the same thing in any tunnel in the major capital cities here if you were stupid enough. I suspect he grabs on, because he both burned all his matches and reached the inevitable rise near the end of the tunnel.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Ross » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:25 am

Saw a guy this morning at about 6am riding against the traffic on a MTB in on-road cycle lane on dual carrigeway in thick fog dressed in dark clothing with no lights or helmet. Must have a deathwish. There is a shared path on the other side of the road.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:34 pm

He probably read this topic and decided the wrong side of the road was safer than the shared path. :roll:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby rdp_au » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:34 am

Back to what seems to be a hobby horse of mine – cyclists not stopping at red lights. Witnessed yet again, a classic example this morning. I quite often see a couple riding together as I pass through Eastwood in Sydney. This morning as I was waiting at the red light to cross Blaxland Rd (four lanes and busy), they rode straight past me and across the intersection. He was able to cut in front of a car, but the lady hesitated, forcing the car to brake sharply and stop to avoid hitting her. The car did very well, as his sightline was blocked by cars stopped waiting to turn right. Now what do you think the driver of that car, as well as all the drivers who witnessed their absolute idiocy, think about cyclists? No wonder they call for bikes to get off the road.

I caught up to them waiting at another set of lights (at least they stopped this time), and to be honest, gave them a bit of a bollocking. This is not my style, as normally when I see stupid behaviour like this, I’ll just shake my head and move on. But when the behaviour reinforces attitudes that have a direct effect on my safety, I’m going to speak up! The lady was obviously a bit rattled by the experience – and justifiably so, had it been a less attentive driver, she would have been in serious trouble. He seemed unrepentant, saying that crossing on the red is just like jay walking, and everyone does that. For goodness sake!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby MisuVir » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:53 pm

rdp_au wrote:He seemed unrepentant, saying that crossing on the red is just like jay walking, and everyone does that. For goodness sake!


There's the problem - pedestrian attitude. I don't cross against the red man and I don't run red lights. Problem is that these people see such "jayriding" as something that is hardly enforced, much like jaywalking... and that annoys drivers even more.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby burger » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:29 pm

rdp_au wrote:... This morning as I was waiting at the red light to cross Blaxland Rd (four lanes and busy), they rode straight past me and across the intersection. He was able to cut in front of a car, but the lady hesitated, forcing the car to brake sharply and stop to avoid hitting her. The car did very well ...
... gave them a bit of a bollocking ...
... He seemed unrepentant, saying that crossing on the red is just like jay walking, and everyone does that...

Good on you rdp!
Wonder if he would have been as unrepentant if his 'lady friend' had been cleaned up ??? :shock:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby feral grasshopper » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:36 pm

rdp_au wrote:Back to what seems to be a hobby horse of mine – cyclists not stopping at red lights. Witnessed yet again, a classic example this morning. I quite often see a couple riding together as I pass through Eastwood in Sydney. This morning as I was waiting at the red light to cross Blaxland Rd (four lanes and busy), they rode straight past me and across the intersection. He was able to cut in front of a car, but the lady hesitated, forcing the car to brake sharply and stop to avoid hitting her. The car did very well, as his sightline was blocked by cars stopped waiting to turn right. Now what do you think the driver of that car, as well as all the drivers who witnessed their absolute idiocy, think about cyclists? No wonder they call for bikes to get off the road.

I caught up to them waiting at another set of lights (at least they stopped this time), and to be honest, gave them a bit of a bollocking. This is not my style, as normally when I see stupid behaviour like this, I’ll just shake my head and move on. But when the behaviour reinforces attitudes that have a direct effect on my safety, I’m going to speak up! The lady was obviously a bit rattled by the experience – and justifiably so, had it been a less attentive driver, she would have been in serious trouble. He seemed unrepentant, saying that crossing on the red is just like jay walking, and everyone does that. For goodness sake!


kudos for providing feedback to the cyclists who broke the law. even if it is not your usual modus operandi, i think it is something we should all do notwithstanding a natural reluctance to engage in dispute. (sorry i'm at work, hence the bureaucratese :roll: )

yes, we do need to police our own or the current situation of almost open war between motorists and cyclists is likely to get worse. more injuries and deaths...............its all pretty horrible, riding a bike is supposed to be fun but is becoming less so. :cry:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby queequeg » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:40 pm

MisuVir wrote:
rdp_au wrote:He seemed unrepentant, saying that crossing on the red is just like jay walking, and everyone does that. For goodness sake!


There's the problem - pedestrian attitude. I don't cross against the red man and I don't run red lights. Problem is that these people see such "jayriding" as something that is hardly enforced, much like jaywalking... and that annoys drivers even more.


I had the opposite last night. I stopped at a pedestrian crossing to let a mum carrying with two kids cross. As I waited, she passed in front of me and said "you could have kept going. There was no need to stop". See, you can't win!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bychosis » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:21 pm

And many moons ago I 'sped' through a ped crossing that I probably should have stopped for a pedestrian on. Then got pulled over about 6-7km later, by a paddy wagon and got a please explain from the boys in blue. Winning as a cyclist doesn't often happen.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:06 pm

rdp_au wrote:Back to what seems to be a hobby horse of mine – cyclists not stopping at red lights.

I agree this is bad. There is an intersection on my ride home where a shared path crosses a busy road at an intersection. Recent changes to the lights means that, for cyclists, the wait on red is even longer than before. The road has also recently changed from one way to two way. Because of the long wait, cyclists are more likely than ever to cross on the red, only visiblity of cars turning into them isn't that great. I have seen quite a few near hits where vehicles have narrowly missed cyclists running the red. I have also seen cars running the red when turning across the path of cyclists crossing on the green, also resulting in a number of near hits. It doesn't help that all of this is at dusk when visibility is reduced anyway. There is no excuse for peds, cyclists or vehicles to run the red as doing so puts other road users at risks.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:26 pm

rdp_au wrote:Back to what seems to be a hobby horse of mine – cyclists not stopping at red lights. Witnessed yet again, a classic example this morning. I quite often see a couple riding together as I pass through Eastwood in Sydney. This morning as I was waiting at the red light to cross Blaxland Rd (four lanes and busy), they rode straight past me and across the intersection. He was able to cut in front of a car, but the lady hesitated, forcing the car to brake sharply and stop to avoid hitting her. The car did very well, as his sightline was blocked by cars stopped waiting to turn right. Now what do you think the driver of that car, as well as all the drivers who witnessed their absolute idiocy, think about cyclists? No wonder they call for bikes to get off the road.

I caught up to them waiting at another set of lights (at least they stopped this time), and to be honest, gave them a bit of a bollocking. This is not my style, as normally when I see stupid behaviour like this, I’ll just shake my head and move on. But when the behaviour reinforces attitudes that have a direct effect on my safety, I’m going to speak up! The lady was obviously a bit rattled by the experience – and justifiably so, had it been a less attentive driver, she would have been in serious trouble. He seemed unrepentant, saying that crossing on the red is just like jay walking, and everyone does that. For goodness sake!


Well done for saying something to the red light runner. I usually reprimand them too and the response if often abuse but it doesn't worry me in the slightest and I will continue to call their stupid behaviour. There's a traffic light crossing on Oxford St Paddington where cyclists riding through the red light have struck a blind pedestrian on three occasions. I estimate that at least 50% of cyclists don't stop on a red light at that location.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby TraceyG » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:03 pm

Riding on a shared path with my husband and our adult son this morning when we saw a group of adults and children pedestrians ahead. After calling to warn us, our son rang his bell to warn the peds who was standing all over the path to enjoy the view. Most of them stepped aside, one even called out "Bikes" to alert the rest of his family. 'Grandma' still didn't hear or move so we slowed right down to cop a barrage of abuse from one of the peds!

Really, what are we supposed to do?
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