The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:33 pm

Mulger bill wrote:I'm still a big advocate of one of these as an audible warning device...

Many hours amongst CBD meanderthals and skullwired zombies and it's never failed to get attention.

But how do you ride with it MB? Keep it in the mouth all the time ready for action ??? If it's on a cord by the time you pick it up into the chops you'd be 'choppered'

:?
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:48 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:48 pm

I'm a backpack boy so it hangs off a shoulder strap by lanyard reel, takes but a moment to grab and doesn't take any effort when finished with.
In known high risk spots it sits nicely between the teeth in one corner of the mouth. No hindrance but I have been known to make odd "woop-weep" sounds at traffic lights :wink:
I have 3 Acmes in service (Siren, Metropolitan and Thunderer) but the Siren is the favourite due to the enormous variety of sounds it's capable of.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby DavidS » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:56 pm

tekapo wrote:Was on the 112 tram this morning heading towards Northcote. As the tram passes Swanston on Collins, I saw quite a few fit looking lyrca clad cyclists climbing along up the hill on the right hand side of the tram.....


Complete idiots. I remember we used to drop sand on them when I drove trams. One of the funniest things which happened to me when I was learning to drive trams was a car pass on my right on Hawthorn Rd. Idiot didn't even look in his mirror as the car immediately behind was a cop, who calmly followed him past with lights going and booked him :D

Cyclists do not belong on tram tracks. Don't do it - it is very dangerous and I'll be lamenting the stress you cause the tram driver when you end up under a tram. A tram is like a truck with no steering, think about it.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:58 pm

DavidS wrote:Cyclists do not belong on tram tracks. Don't do it - it is very dangerous and I'll be lamenting the stress you cause the tram driver when you end up under a tram. A tram is like a truck with no steering, think about it.


Huh!? What the hell are you going on about!? Last I checked most trams drove down public roads and in most cases it is perfectly legal for cyclists to use the road just like it is for cars. Your attitude is disturbing to say the least.

Trams should keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front of them and that includes bicycles. While in MOST places a bicycle can safely move out of the path so as to not delay the tram when this is not the case a tram may have to wait just like they have to wait behind cars.


(Yes I ride down tram tracks. I am simply a (mostly :wink:) law abiding cyclist trying to get to and from my destination safely.)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:36 am

he is talking about cyclists overtaking trame on the right. And he is right..its not a survivalist strategy
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby apsilon » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:42 am

Maybe this is obvious to the Melbournians, but why wouldn't you overtake on the right? That's where you'd normally over take :?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:44 am

apsilon wrote:Maybe this is obvious to the Melbournians, but why wouldn't you overtake on the right? That's where you'd normally over take :?


Isn't that where the tracks are for the trams coming the other way?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby apsilon » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:48 am

herzog wrote:
apsilon wrote:Maybe this is obvious to the Melbournians, but why wouldn't you overtake on the right? That's where you'd normally over take :?


Isn't that where the tracks are for the trams coming the other way?


Probbaly but how is that different to any other traffic coming the other way in any other situation?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:50 am

Percrime wrote:he is talking about cyclists overtaking trame on the right. And he is right..its not a survivalist strategy

Um, he quite clearly said "Cyclists do not belong on tram tracks". But that said I don't see how overtaking a tram on the right is any more dangerous than overtaking any other large vehicle. Normal common sense applies, check that it is safe beforehand.

apsilon wrote:Maybe this is obvious to the Melbournians, but why wouldn't you overtake on the right? That's where you'd normally over take :?

Well for trams one would normally overtake in adjacent lane to the left. However I too am especially puzzled by his comments, I'm not sure what makes trams so special or so deadly. :?: The things are on god damn tracks, it is alot easier to predict what they will do next!
Last edited by human909 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:52 am

apsilon wrote:Probbaly but how is that different to any other traffic coming the other way in any other situation?


Have you seen what happens when a bike wheel meets tram tracks running in the direction of travel?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:55 am

herzog wrote:Have you seen what happens when a bike wheel meets tram tracks running in the direction of travel?

No. If you practice a little caution then nothing happens. I ride along the centre of tram tracks all the time.

Curbs, potholes, grates all present hazards too, but that doesn't mean cyclists can't deal with them.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby apsilon » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:58 am

herzog wrote:
apsilon wrote:Probbaly but how is that different to any other traffic coming the other way in any other situation?


Have you seen what happens when a bike wheel meets tram tracks running in the direction of travel?


Not referring to bikes, I'm talking in general as that's the comment seemed to be inferring you never overtake a tram on the right regardless of what you're driving/riding. DavidS specifically mentioned a car passing on the right. If it's only referring to bikes then yes I can understand why extra caution would be requried, I just couldn't work out why in general it shouldn't be done.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:00 am

human909 wrote:
herzog wrote:Have you seen what happens when a bike wheel meets tram tracks running in the direction of travel?

No. If you practice a little caution then nothing happens. I ride along the centre of tram tracks all the time.

Curbs, potholes, grates all present hazards too, but that doesn't mean cyclists can't deal with them.


No, but there's a lot of cyclists who really struggle with tram tracks.

They aren't familiar with the concept of crossing the tracks at an angle etc. In low light or rain, the situation is worse again.

How do you reckon this punter would go?

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:05 am

So how does any of this suggest that "Cyclists do not belong on tram tracks".

Sure there may be some cyclists who struggle with tram tracks. There may be others who struggle tying their own shoes. However none of this means that cyclist shouldn't be on tram tracks!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:14 am

New Silly Cyclists is out after a 5 month gap.

Episode 47
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby tekapo » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:49 am

apsilon wrote:Maybe this is obvious to the Melbournians, but why wouldn't you overtake on the right? That's where you'd normally over take :?


http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Lic ... urists.htm

Passing or overtaking trams: There are several rules about driving in Melbourne that relate to trams: Drivers may only overtake a tram on the left.


Also, the cyclists that I saw were not over taking, they were simply going the wrong way on a quite Saturday morning down Collins. I didn't see it, but I guess they turned right onto Collins from Swanston and instead of turning into the left hand side of the road, they decide the right was good enough. Then they crossed the tram tracks behind the tram, overtook and turned left onto Russell.

Granted, it was a quite Saturday morning, and there wasn't much traffic, but seriously......
Last edited by tekapo on Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby apsilon » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:09 am

tekapo wrote:http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/NewToVictoria/InformationForTourists.htm

Passing or overtaking trams: There are several rules about driving in Melbourne that relate to trams: Drivers may only overtake a tram on the left.


OK, thanks. So can I assume trams only operate on roads that are multi lane or is there simply no way to pass a tram on a single lane road? Anyone know why tram lines were placed in right hand lanes rather than the left which would seem to make more sense? Then you could have passing on the right like the other 99.9% of Australia and passengers could disembark on to the foot path rather than the middle of the road. Getting offtopic but genuinely curious.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby nezumi » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:20 am

apsilon wrote:OK, thanks. So can I assume trams only operate on roads that are multi lane or is there simply no way to pass a tram on a single lane road? Anyone know why tram lines were placed in right hand lanes rather than the left which would seem to make more sense? Then you could have passing on the right like the other 99.9% of Australia and passengers could disembark on to the foot path rather than the middle of the road. Getting offtopic but genuinely curious.


Trams mostly operate on multi lane roads, but that "multi lane" can contain parked cars.

The reason for trams running in the centre of the road is, I think, one of turning circle - they can't manage a hard left turn and so use the right lane.

The problem is the parked cars on roads used by trams. This prevents cars behind the tram passing it between stops, making roads like Sydney Road useless to drivers.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby apsilon » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:25 am

Ahh, that makes some sense. Thanks.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:07 am

[quote="human909]
Um, he quite clearly said "Cyclists do not belong on tram tracks". But that said I don't see how overtaking a tram on the right is any more dangerous than overtaking any other large vehicle. Normal common sense applies, check that it is safe beforehand.
![/quote]

Its not my favorite bit of the road. BUT if he means tram tracks in the narrow sense.. the actual tracks rather than the lane they are in. Then well.... enough said.


Trams have terrible brakes. Really appalling and dodgy brakes. Its something to remember when stuffing around near them.
And personally I cannot think of a single tram track that anyone ... not a total loon would overtake the tram on the right. And I cant think of a single road where anyone not a total loon would overtake a truck in the centre of the road on the right... that has tram tracks... (Well... Burwood highway... places like that.. but thats not what he means. ) THats a 3 lane road with a cente reservation for the tram tracks. I cant off the top of my head think of a road thats got even 2 clear lanes and a tram track with no seperataion



But meh.. you know that.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:38 am

nezumi wrote:
apsilon wrote:OK, thanks. So can I assume trams only operate on roads that are multi lane or is there simply no way to pass a tram on a single lane road? Anyone know why tram lines were placed in right hand lanes rather than the left which would seem to make more sense? Then you could have passing on the right like the other 99.9% of Australia and passengers could disembark on to the foot path rather than the middle of the road. Getting offtopic but genuinely curious.


Trams mostly operate on multi lane roads, but that "multi lane" can contain parked cars.

The reason for trams running in the centre of the road is, I think, one of turning circle - they can't manage a hard left turn and so use the right lane.

The problem is the parked cars on roads used by trams. This prevents cars behind the tram passing it between stops, making roads like Sydney Road useless to drivers.


Bear in mind that a Melbourne tram can have 210 passengers, and is 33m long. At typical melbourne vehicle loadings, the equivalent people in a stationary car queue would be some 1100m long, and take 9 minutes to filter past a point in flowing traffic. In 50% occupation intersection roads, that traffic would be expected to take 18 minutes to filter past a point in a single lane, and you would have an expected queuing time of 18 minutes to join the road.

ie the trip demand on that road is not solvable via cars, and if you _need_ to move a car via due to _needing_ a car on the other side of that journey, you should be awfully glad that people are using the trams, and therefore the space for more necessary car and truck journeys exist, and quite frankly other users should be annoyed with the population of single occupant toorak tractors on that particular road, particularly if they drive a trade vehicle that is carrying a payload that actually justifies its trip.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:05 pm

Yeah, passing a tram on the outside is stupid. There's much truth in the "Rhinoceros on a skateboard" safety ads.
So's standing the wrong side of the line on the Swanston St superstops before the tram gets there.
Stupidest of all is trusting everybody else to do the right thing.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:29 pm

Guy riding a "bike", no lights, no helmet, wrong side of the road against heavy traffic, downhill, listening to headphones, smoking. The definition of temporary citizen.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby DavidS » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:01 am

I can think of maybe a couple of hundred metres of tram tracks where you can overtake on the right (Kerferd Rd for example). Everywhere else it is illegal for bloody good reason. I've seen what a tram can do to a car first hand (I was driving the tram), you don't want that on a bike.

My main issue is with cyclists who go along tram tracks where they shouldn't. I've seen bikes ride along reserved tram tracks such as St Georges Rd. Bloody stupid. Just because you know where the tram is going doesn't mean you should use part of the road specifically for trams and trams alone. Riding in the middle of the tracks on a narrow road with parked cars (eg Chapel St) can be the only way sometimes, I must have been silly and assumed that people wouldn't think I was referring to that situation. I'll assume lower intelligence next time.

The original example was of a cyclist passing a tram on the right in the city. Absolutely stupid behaviour. Trams are like a truck with no steering, and they can weigh over 50 tonnes fully loaded. Trams may also have grip problems on a perfectly dry road (eg, leaves, pine needles on Lygon St etc). I may know when this will happen because I have driven trams, unless you have driven them you will have no idea. Want to take the risk? I suppose I'll assume lower intelligence again.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:08 pm

But, but.. Head down bum up blatting down the tracks on StGs road is SO much suicidal fun it should get coverage on the extreme sports channel and be sponsored by Power Thirst!










JK :wink:
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