open topic, for anything cycling related.
I was the dumb cyclist this morning. A tradie in a rush just about merged into me after over taking me for no real reason (I was keeping up with traffic) so when I caught up to him at some lights I gave him an earful. But that's just going to make him even more of a tosser around cyclists judging from the swearing coming out his mouth as I rode off.
WRONG! moron motorists need to know that their driving is not OK. being a doormat will not improve their behaviour. they do it partly because they believe they have impunity and can just drive off. you taught him a valuable lesson today
to the female cyclist wearing a river city cycle jersey with green army drink bottles strapped around her back - cutting me off on the bend getting onto the indooroopilly bridge (southbound) wasn't nice. next time i may not hit my brakes. my weight will hurt. as will my heavy bike. Also tell your riding partner that he did EXACTLY the same thing to my riding buddy on the same corner.
Thats a person who was in earshot. I can really get an "OY", to echo off the surroundings, so thats usually my preferred response to being chopped.
If my airzound was attached the bike and working I would have emptied it
Got over taken on two bends today with no warning. Well not quite, the first bike was creaking so I knew some one was behind me. But he overtook me on the second of two ninety degree bends across a narrow creek, when I was going slow. The second over took as I was descending into a turn, then he proceed to ride barely faster than me and I had to coast every other pedal. I was pannier laden and didn't feel like over taking.....So slowed so he can pull away.
My silly pedestrian is the lady last night who walks along with her handbag stuffed to the brim and open with her purse on top. Purse falls out and she wouldn't have realised she's lost her wallet unless someone told her (which happened to be me). I don't understand not making double and triple sure that valuables are secure. She must really trust that there aren't any pickpockets in the Melbourne CBD as she would have been an easy target.
* * * * * * *
Some rules (Victoria only):
driver must approach and enter the intersection from as near as practicable to the far left side of the road
must do left turn from left lane unless painted arrows on the ground say otherwise
no mention of having to give way (as the car driver) to a bicycle that is behind your turning car in a bike lane to your left (with said bike lane stopping at the intersection) - car must give way to peds crossing the road the car is entering
bicycle allowed to overtake on left UNLESS the vehicle the bicycle is overtaking is indicating and turning left - then not allowed.
-As the intersection itself does not have marked lines of traffic, if the bicycle is approaching the car from behind and the car is indicating and turning left, the cyclist cannot pass/overtake on the left.
-this is modified when there are marked lanes (ie. the bike lane through the intersection with broken lines showing where it is). Where the bike lane continues through the intersection, the vehicle who crosses the lines is the one who gives way as per r148 - so it would be the car giving way to the bike.
must give way to vehicle already in line of traffic you are merging into (even when no marked lanes).
give way to the person whose vehicle is in front - this is specifically where one lane runs out and merges with another. A straight through lane will not run out mid intersection (unless the road authorities have really stuffed up in their design) so this rule wouldn't apply through an intersection.
key part is (4): bike lane starts at the 'bicycle lane' sign and ends at either the 'bicycle lane ends' sign OR an intersection UNLESS bicycle lane is continued across the intersection with broken lines.
So for your situation you mention above you would clearly be covered by r27 or r28 for the left turn and can't do it from the middle lane. As for the changing lanes in the intersection without marked lanes- you'd be covered by r148 - give way to vehicle already in line of traffic you are merging into.
Of course, this is an internet forum and I'm probably wrong...
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-new ... 31a10.html
if this had been me he wouldn't have needed to worry about next father's day...
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Who knew such a nonsensical anomaly was in the road rules?
That would suggest that the bike lane ending becomes a zip merge (i.e. give way to vehicle in front), making the left hook legal?
r28 which you quoted as well does seem to require a motorist to turn left from a bike lane, unless the bike lane is outside a lane which is marked as a left turn lane.
What a mess.
Well, Summerknight and I did
The left hook isn't legal as such, rather a cyclist attempting to pass a left turning vehicle is making an *illegal* move, and would be negligent. Generally, where a bike lane is marked through an intersection, it is on the right hand side of left turning traffic. This can be seen in the intersection of Albert St and Hoddle St, coming from Albert to Elizabeth St. The bike lane is continuous across the left road lane, allowing riders to move from the left to right hand side of traffic.
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All lanes effectively end at the intersection, because none of them are marked over the intersection, which means that entering the intersection everyone is in a *line of traffic*, and *line of traffic* rules apply, ie you have to give way to diverge left or right.
Yes congratulations on the road authorities for making 2 rules that apply to the same situation, and congratulations for the road designer to make that situation occur, even though its dangerous.
Nah, gotta agree with jules on this. It'd take a lot to make people like that any worse around cyclists. They are already at the dangerous end of the spectrum. Doesn't matter if their ignorance is the unobservant kind or the unthinking or uncaring.....how are children (or those with minds that have yet to develop much beyond that level) meant to learn if their mistakes pass unchallenged?
The trick, if there is one, is to let them know that their behaviour has not gone unnoticed with the minumum of fuss. There's little to be gained by attempting to engage them in a battle of wits, or even relying on that handy old crutch - logic. They are usually insufficently armed to participate.
Giving them an earful though, just places you in their playpen. Keep it short and sweet. If you're feeling polite, ask them if they could leave you a bit more room next time, or mention that you hope their insurance is up-to-date as they nearly killed you. Or if not, ask them if they've forgotten their "P" plates or something equally facetious. They'll get the message. You'll know because it'll likely still set them off, but in truth they're just vocalising what's been tormenting them the whole time they've been behind the wheel. You might just get lucky and the reminder could result in an apology.
I regularly ride a circuit around a local park. It's a quiet, one way loop that accesses the various carparking areas and then exits or folds back on itself. Nearly every time I'm down there some impatiant (bless their little flushed cheeks) will drive out the wrong way from the main carpark. If a boot camp type situation is breaking up there can be half a dozen following each other out the wrong way. Occassionally some bright spark will drive in the wrong way despite the rather obvious road configuration and the regular big white arrows highlighting their mistake.
Last week I passed a young hipster in a low slung nissan with sub box booming just as he was finishing off a lap around the wrong direction. Despite obviously wasting a lot of money on his vehicle, it was apparent it still required further funds as he found it necessary to hold his door closed with his right arm. As we approached each other I simply pointed to the big white arrow handily placed on the road surface facing him. It would have been the 5th or 6th similar sign he'd ignored on his merry way round. This action resulted in the young chap launching himself half out of his open window and screaming his face off with some unintelligible rubbish as he disappeared off into the distance. Job accomplished. No further action or acknowledgement necessary. There was no uncertainty about his actions going unnoticed and more importantly, no tacit approval of same (although strangely, I didn't utter a single word).
Be aware though, any confrontation, especially with someone who could be unbalanced and in control of a heavy/fast vehicle, carries risk. Pulling out into the middle of the above described road to stop a vehicle travelling the wrong way (as I've done on a few occassions) is not something I'd recommend doing. Unless you're built like a brick outhouse (I'm not), you need to pick your battles very carefully.
NB. This feels like it should be in the motorists thread but is meant to reassure the OP that they are not dumb...well, not necessarily.
I just might add I was a mechanic at one stage of my life and some of the weapons I found in peoples cars. Shot guns, home made Machetes ,steel bars and the old baseball bat. More common than one thinks even old frail men in their 80,s , There are a lot of unstable people out there ???
Heh. Yeah but you gotta kinda expect that being an army grease monkey. (Little joke)
Let's be kind and say there are a lot of people out there who won't view the world in the same way you do. (That'd be a general "you")
Fortunately, most folk, even most armed nutjobs (all bets are off if they're using mind altering substances), recognize the risks involved to themselves in escalating a situation to that level, especially when witnesses abound. I'd hazard that in the vast majority of situations they're almost always going to use their vehicle if anything. Afterall it's handy and they've already got form in many instances (usually the reason for the interaction), and as is regularly discussed on here, that is much more acceptable/understandable/forgivable (apparently), very unfortunately.
Also as jules indicated, they tend to feel safe behaving badly whilst locked in their bubble with the usually excellent chance of being able to avoid any repercussions. And they're usually happy to remain in that safety zone, even whilst its foundations are being rocked a little.
Again, cycling can be a risky business....as can venturing out your front door. Individuals need to assess how much more they are willing to accept themselves. (I'm not advocating that everyone should ride around with a World Police mentality. Just don't beat yourself up if you find yourself put at risk by someone else's actions and feel the need to (hopefully calmly) bring it to their attention.)
I agree not everyone is out there to harm but there are some that will (and that is without using mind altering substances )http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/skateboarder-arrested-over-violent-road-rage-bashing-at-gold-coast-intersection/story-e6freoof-1226613846406
I think this is my first foray into the dark learnings of the numpty ped thread!
Don't really have much bother on my commute, but this *person* had me a wee bit perplexed. Would he do this if I was driving a car?
Me thinks not.
I can't possibly see why I'd care about that pedestrian, or why I'd call him a numpty. It is a nearly empty road, he could legitimately have struggled to determine your speed, because your speed would be something of an outlier, and it is hard to judge a cyclists speed from directly front on, and he probably expected you'd slow down more for the turn anyway, and there was like 3m of roadway behind him and you are on a ~45cm wide vehicle ?
When someone crosses the road like that, they do it because they're a prick. He probably would have done the same thing to a car, i'm sure everyone has had a pedestrian cross in front of them while driving and they just stare straight at you and dawdle as slow as possible. (Not talking about at a crossing or set of lights or intersection, where they are under no obligation to run across, nor should they be)
+1 Without a doubt.
Well they say confession is good for the soul, so I was the dumb cyclist this morning! I was riding on the Cunningham Highway and was about to cross over the ON merge lane. I did a very cursory head check to my left, mainly relying on listening for road noise, and then started to cross. Next thing I hear brakes being applied (not mine!), and then two motorbikes appear to my right. Apparently I didnt hear them or see them. To their very big credit, they pulled up ahead of me, and I thought I should too. Expecting to get an earful and a barrage of comments, they were more concerned about me than themselves. The leading rider was the one that took the most evasive action, and as told to me by the second rider, had only missed my rear wheel by inches! As they took their helmets off I expected to be berrated, and quite rightly so for my stupid actions, but they were very polite. I appologised very humbly for not doing a proper check and causing them any grief. They were very accepeting and said not to worry about it. As an ex-motorbike rider myself, I know I would have mouthed off at me! We dpearted company, and I went on my way. After his heart rate decreased the motorbike rider departed too, and as they passed me, gave a toot and waved. Nice guys. What did I learn? Make sure your head checks are full ones, and not cursory, especially where highway entry speeds are concerned! And if you cant do a full head check, then STOP! I am not going for any KOMs or speed! I just want to ride to keep fit AND stay alive! If I have to stop to check behind me, so be it! (gives oneself an upper cut for being an idiot!)
Last edited by Grejoh on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm inclined to agree. It was hardly worth the effort of posting. If we ever get nude streets then that sort of interaction will become the safe norm.
I'd be dropping it from my memory and focusing on the next issue up the road.
Hmmm. Sorta the same long bow that many motorists draw when they see a cyclist. I wouldn't be asserting strongly what "someone like that" "would have done" to a car. Nor that he is some sort of prick. I and you are not in a position to know that. Just as I wouldn't impune a cyclist bought down by an errant driver as being a red light runner who rides three abreast on busy roads.
Yes, no doubt about it. Peds as a class do fail to see what is in front of them. Not just a few here and there. I experience it every time I ride.
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .
Not really. Its a different category all together. I see it as him being a tool. I go through some sketchy parts of town and I've seen countless types of people doing the same thing as they try to be a prick and annoy everyone. As soon as you mouth off to them they want to start an argument or draw attention. They do it to cyclists, they do it to cars, they do it to motorbike riders, they do it do truck drivers and I've even seen one complete prick do it to a train. It's the same type of prick that walks down the middle of a road at 1am and when you honk your horn for them to get off the road they feel its necessary to turn around and start walking towards your car to start a fight. All options of him not being a prick went out the window when he chose to cross at the widest part of the road.
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