The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby CXCommuter » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:38 pm

doggatas wrote:
CXCommuter wrote:Il Padrone- wrong.


Suggest you read the post from Il Padrone at the top of this page... :D :D :D

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22881&p=1104251#p1104021


Apologies Il Padrone- should read all of the posts before commenting :oops:
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by BNA » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:00 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Dragster1 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:00 pm

Xplora wrote:
jules21 wrote:encountered mr paranoid cyclist last night. pulled in behind him in a queue of traffic, filling the gap he had created between cars. he starts glancing at me in his handlebar mirror - it's ok buddy, i'm not going to bite! i was actually riding with my wife and after we took off was having a laugh with her about something unrelated. mr paranoid turns his head slightly and yells "____ OFF!" just before we peel off in another direction. stay vigilant, we're all talking about you buddy :)

Some people are nuts. :shock:

Maybe he fancied you Jules :wink:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Scott_C » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:09 pm

CXCommuter wrote:he is supposed to indicate right into the roundabout then indicate left when leaving the roundabout, at least in WA.


You might be showing your age here, whilst this used to be the case it was changed when the Road Traffic Code 2000 was enacted such that it is only necessary to indicate right if you are intending on leaving the roundabout more than halfway around the roundabout.

Road Traffic Code 2000 wrote:94.Indicating right when entering roundabout
(1)This regulation applies to a driver entering a roundabout, if the driver is to leave the roundabout more than halfway around it.
(2)A driver shall —
(a)give a right turn signal when the driver is approaching the roundabout; and
(b)continue to give the right turn signal while the driver is driving in the roundabout, unless the driver is changing marked lanes, entering another line of traffic or required by regulation 99 to give a left turn signal.


A vehicle following the old indicate right when going straight rules would have given the cyclist the impression they were turning right in which case the cyclist would have been safe to proceed. I don't think this was a factor in this specific instance as I think the cyclist has badly misjudged the vehicle's speed and their own speed/acceleration capability but I did want to point out that the rule has changed and anyone still following the old way of indicating potentially puts other road users at risk.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:18 pm

stretts wrote:Saw a doozy yesterday riding in town - but i'd put it more down to poor road design and novice rider morn than stupidity.

Was at the rundle st/pultney st intersection (see picture below)

http://s29.postimg.org/nevd4iv8n/IMG_20 ... 124845.jpg

Young cyclist was traveling toward the bike box, undertaking the banked up cars (both car lanes can turn left, only the right lane can turn right) - unfortunately the lights went green whilst the cyclist was filtering, double unfortunately she intended to turn right (in front of the already turning left cars) which resulted in her cutting two cars off and narrowly avoiding a nasty crash.

Like I said, pretty poor road design - something needs to change here as I've seen this happen a couple of times. The bike box works a treat if you get there while the lights are red. If I was turning right I would have claimed the lane and waited back in the cue of cars, for my own safety.


All bike boxes will have the same problem, it's really up to the cyclist to be aware of the issue. Common sense would suggest you move to the front and stop adjacent to the kerb and wait for a gap in traffic or a red light - or if you can plan ahead, claim the right lane.

I would hate to see cyclist-only signal phasing as that just makes it worse for us - instead of having say 50% of green time to go through, we will get 10%. It might be "safer" but it certainly is far less convenient and just be another deterrent to cycling. We want to encourage it, not make it harder.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:45 pm

wellington_street wrote:This idiot

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=679756298750680


If that guy ever gets his bike fitted, he should get a package deal to get the coffin measured up at the same time.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:01 pm

wellington_street wrote:
stretts wrote:Saw a doozy yesterday riding in town - but i'd put it more down to poor road design and novice rider morn than stupidity.

Was at the rundle st/pultney st intersection (see picture below)

http://s29.postimg.org/nevd4iv8n/IMG_20 ... 124845.jpg

Young cyclist was traveling toward the bike box, undertaking the banked up cars (both car lanes can turn left, only the right lane can turn right) - unfortunately the lights went green whilst the cyclist was filtering, double unfortunately she intended to turn right (in front of the already turning left cars) which resulted in her cutting two cars off and narrowly avoiding a nasty crash.

Like I said, pretty poor road design - something needs to change here as I've seen this happen a couple of times. The bike box works a treat if you get there while the lights are red. If I was turning right I would have claimed the lane and waited back in the cue of cars, for my own safety.


All bike boxes will have the same problem, it's really up to the cyclist to be aware of the issue. Common sense would suggest you move to the front and stop adjacent to the kerb and wait for a gap in traffic or a red light - or if you can plan ahead, claim the right lane.

I would hate to see cyclist-only signal phasing as that just makes it worse for us - instead of having say 50% of green time to go through, we will get 10%. It might be "safer" but it certainly is far less convenient and just be another deterrent to cycling. We want to encourage it, not make it harder.


I don't know how anyone thinks its reasonable to perform a right turn by left passing everyone and then planting yourself in front of the right lane queue. Even if the lights do stay red whilst you do that, it is not a reasonable thing to do, and if bike boxes are encouraging that then they are no good.

If they intend on a sidelane with a bike box, then they need to really work on training hook turns, and moving all of the infrastructure around so that there is a safe place for hook turners to collect, and then they can limit the amount of time given to drivers to turn left, and they can physically place an obstacle between the cyclists and left turners, so that its not possible to crush a cyclist obeying a red signal.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:08 pm

zero wrote:I don't know how anyone thinks its reasonable to perform a right turn by left passing everyone and then planting yourself in front of the right lane queue. Even if the lights do stay red whilst you do that, it is not a reasonable thing to do, and if bike boxes are encouraging that then they are no good.


Why isn't it reasonable? It's far less intimidating than claiming the right lane and can be done perfectly safely when used properly.

Hook turns at this intersection are complicated by the conflict with left turning vehicles, so a bike box is safer.

zero wrote:If they intend on a sidelane with a bike box, then they need to really work on training hook turns, and moving all of the infrastructure around so that there is a safe place for hook turners to collect, and then they can limit the amount of time given to drivers to turn left, and they can physically place an obstacle between the cyclists and left turners, so that its not possible to crush a cyclist obeying a red signal.


Generally the cycle lane will be located to the right of any left turn lane, so that eliminates potential 'crushing' of hook turners. This intersection obviously doesn't work like that, so the bike box is a reasonable solution as long as cyclists know how to use it.

Looking at this intersection on Nearmap, the only alternative to the bike box is to remove the left turn from right lane and have the cycle lane proceed to the stop line in between the two lanes. I have to say, though, that Pulteney Street looks like a horrible street to ride down!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:47 pm

Scott_C wrote:
CXCommuter wrote:he is supposed to indicate right into the roundabout then indicate left when leaving the roundabout, at least in WA.


You might be showing your age here, whilst this used to be the case it was changed when the Road Traffic Code 2000 was enacted such that it is only necessary to indicate right if you are intending on leaving the roundabout more than halfway around the roundabout.



Selective quoting is harsh :roll: CXComuter was right IMO given the context of the discussion and what he actually wrote and what the driver was doing or did in the video.

Il Padrone- wrong- the driver did not change lanes- he was in the right hand lane throughout the round about- line markings indicate the driver can drive straight through and as I am a semi local (live 6km away and ride/drive here frequently) this roundabout is fast, open and with lots of traffic (bicycles and cars) that needs more care than shown in the video by the cyclist, regardless of what the driver indicated (he is supposed to indicate right into the roundabout then indicate left when leaving the roundabout, at least in WA.


Assuming the driver was planning to exit at the third or fouth exit points he or she would actually have passed the halfway point and hence a right indication was correct.

Cheers
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby CXCommuter » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:02 pm

Scott_C wrote:
CXCommuter wrote:he is supposed to indicate right into the roundabout then indicate left when leaving the roundabout, at least in WA.


You might be showing your age here, whilst this used to be the case it was changed when the Road Traffic Code 2000 was enacted such that it is only necessary to indicate right if you are intending on leaving the roundabout more than halfway around the roundabout.

Someone needs to advise RAC as I got lambasted when I said this during a work related induction requirement- not showing my age just what RAC said must be done to comply with the laws. Mind you they also recommended leaving a full car space between yourself and the car in front when in traffic- great way to fix traffic jams- just make them twice as long.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:27 pm

CXCommuter wrote:Someone needs to advise RAC as I got lambasted when I said this during a work related induction requirement- not showing my age just what RAC said must be done to comply with the laws. Mind you they also recommended leaving a full car space between yourself and the car in front when in traffic- great way to fix traffic jams- just make them twice as long.


http://aushiker.com/road-rules-two-lane ... em-safety/ shows you are right.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby stretts » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:13 am

Aushiker wrote:
Scott_C wrote:
CXCommuter wrote:he is supposed to indicate right into the roundabout then indicate left when leaving the roundabout, at least in WA.


You might be showing your age here, whilst this used to be the case it was changed when the Road Traffic Code 2000 was enacted such that it is only necessary to indicate right if you are intending on leaving the roundabout more than halfway around the roundabout.



Selective quoting is harsh :roll: CXComuter was right IMO given the context of the discussion and what he actually wrote and what the driver was doing or did in the video.

Il Padrone- wrong- the driver did not change lanes- he was in the right hand lane throughout the round about- line markings indicate the driver can drive straight through and as I am a semi local (live 6km away and ride/drive here frequently) this roundabout is fast, open and with lots of traffic (bicycles and cars) that needs more care than shown in the video by the cyclist, regardless of what the driver indicated (he is supposed to indicate right into the roundabout then indicate left when leaving the roundabout, at least in WA.


Assuming the driver was planning to exit at the third or fouth exit points he or she would actually have passed the halfway point and hence a right indication was correct.

Cheers
Andrew


The start of Pultney is pretty terrible but it gets better as you go along - though the flow of traffic lights is pretty bad sometimes, at times you'll hit every red :S

The street parallel to Pultney is having a separated bike lane installed this year....should be interesting
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bychosis » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:06 am

This morning I encountered a daydreamer wandering across the share path walking her two dogs.
Initially thought she was joining the path to continue along. When I figured out she wasn't doing that I was close enough for hard braking to avoid. Rang the bell she jumped, swore and said "sorry, I was daydreaming". No kidding love, most people have a bit of a look before crossing. Used my newly acquired powers of zen to shrug it off and continue on, not gunna spoil my ride today :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:44 am

This was quite good ... from Reddit

I know that riding the footpaths of the Beaufort Arrondissement at high speed on a fixie with no brakes is the birthright of all hipster-born, but you did almost die today.

By the power of my foot on brake pedal, we missed this connection and I have no interest in actually making the connection between car and two-wheeled-fashion statement, so secure your roos in your top paddock. If you are going to ride illegally in the space cars are occupying, pick some actual gaps and stay alive.

[ I support cyclists and a healthy cycle network throuhout all suburbs but this was death wish quality and gives other competent cyclists a bad name. ]


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby tekapo » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:30 pm

Saw a guy "practising" his track stand on a geared bike, the problem was that he was at the intersection of Warrigal (6 lanes) and Dandenong Road (8 lanes) in peak hour. He started out well, but then drifted (probably) 2m forward and getting almighty close to the right turning traffic from the other side. He then took off just before the light went green.

Seriously, just unclip and put the foot down......... (I assumed that he was clipped, I was at the ped crossing on the diagonal corner so can't see that clearly.)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:05 pm

wellington_street wrote:
zero wrote:I don't know how anyone thinks its reasonable to perform a right turn by left passing everyone and then planting yourself in front of the right lane queue. Even if the lights do stay red whilst you do that, it is not a reasonable thing to do, and if bike boxes are encouraging that then they are no good.


Why isn't it reasonable? It's far less intimidating than claiming the right lane and can be done perfectly safely when used properly.



I'd view pulling past 10 people intending to go straight and making them wait whilst you turn is inherently impolite, and misses whatever transport efficiency point cyclists would achieve. It even penalises me, the cyclist that waited in the queue. Even if its a 1 way street, I'd still expect to have to give way to many pedestrians when turning. I get the shits with drivers that overtake me and then force me to stop whilst they parallel park, and this scenario is extremely similar to that, just the roles reversed.

it is also mildly dangerous (danger proportional to motor vehicle mass) to cross the first unpredictable row of traffic to get into a bike box in front of them, and always will be and doubling down by crossing extra lanes doesn't help.

They aren't and have never been a great solution to anything - if the cycling traffic builds up at all they then fail to extract all the cyclists from alongside the turning vehicles.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:07 pm

Me - I blew a red light this afternoon whilst I was tracking traffic coming from the other direction.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:32 pm

zero wrote:I'd view pulling past 10 people intending to go straight and making them wait whilst you turn is inherently impolite, and misses whatever transport efficiency point cyclists would achieve.


I don't understand what you mean here, can you rephrase it? Proper use of a bike box won't block anyone, other than the miniscule delay while cyclists turn right, and then get overtaken.


zero wrote:It even penalises me, the cyclist that waited in the queue. Even if its a 1 way street, I'd still expect to have to give way to many pedestrians when turning. I get the shits with drivers that overtake me and then force me to stop whilst they parallel park, and this scenario is extremely similar to that, just the roles reversed.


Not really - if there's a cycle lane and bike box which you choose not use, you're not being penalised if you are decided to wait in traffic instead. Not sure what giving way to pedestrians has to do with bike boxes - that's part of turning at any intersection.

zero wrote:it is also mildly dangerous (danger proportional to motor vehicle mass) to cross the first unpredictable row of traffic to get into a bike box in front of them, and always will be and doubling down by crossing extra lanes doesn't help.


How is moving in front of stationary vehicles at a red light any more dangerous than any other activity on the road?

zero wrote:They aren't and have never been a great solution to anything - if the cycling traffic builds up at all they then fail to extract all the cyclists from alongside the turning vehicles.


They are not a silver bullet but they are very useful. Nothing other than a separate phase for cyclists will fully remove conflicts between left turning vehicles and through cyclists.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:17 am

zero wrote:
wellington_street wrote:
zero wrote:I don't know how anyone thinks its reasonable to perform a right turn by left passing everyone and then planting yourself in front of the right lane queue. Even if the lights do stay red whilst you do that, it is not a reasonable thing to do, and if bike boxes are encouraging that then they are no good.


Why isn't it reasonable? It's far less intimidating than claiming the right lane and can be done perfectly safely when used properly.

I'd view pulling past 10 people intending to go straight and making them wait whilst you turn is inherently impolite, and misses whatever transport efficiency point cyclists would achieve. It even penalises me, the cyclist that waited in the queue.


I agree with zero. This is one of the few circumstances when I don't see a fair justification for cyclists to "jump the queue". Personally If I want to turn right and there is a huge queue then I believe that it is more polite and just as easy to perform a hook turn.

I'm not going to condemn cyclists for doing this. But it is not something I would generally do.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bychosis » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:23 am

How to win friends and influence people.
Oncoming cyclist: "Point your light down d@#head" My response, not that he'd heard: "Have a nice day". What I wanted to do was put my light on high beam (it was on low) and point it in his eyes.
If it had been: "Can you dip you light mate?" My response would have been "Sorry, didn't realise it was too high" and dip the light, then take note of where it was pointed for future reference etc.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Biffidus » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:47 pm

human909 wrote:I agree with zero. This is one of the few circumstances when I don't see a fair justification for cyclists to "jump the queue". Personally If I want to turn right and there is a huge queue then I believe that it is more polite and just as easy to perform a hook turn.


You can't easily perform a hook turn easily in this intersection. There's two lanes of traffic turning left and no traffic going straight as it is a t-junction. If you want to turn right you can either use the bike box, dismount and use the pedestrian crossing or wait in the right lane with traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:31 pm

zero wrote:If they intend on a sidelane with a bike box, then they need to really work on training hook turns, and moving all of the infrastructure around so that there is a safe place for hook turners to collect, and then they can limit the amount of time given to drivers to turn left, and they can physically place an obstacle between the cyclists and left turners, so that its not possible to crush a cyclist obeying a red signal.


Pretty much what the newer Dutch intersection treatments with bike lanes do

http://goo.gl/maps/9ALCp


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:01 am

bychosis wrote:How to win friends and influence people.
Oncoming cyclist: "Point your light down d@#head" My response, not that he'd heard: "Have a nice day". What I wanted to do was put my light on high beam (it was on low) and point it in his eyes.
If it had been: "Can you dip you light mate?" My response would have been "Sorry, didn't realise it was too high" and dip the light, then take note of where it was pointed for future reference etc.


Maybe its just me .. but I really hate being blinded at 25 kph with someone going the other way and my night vision gone for the next 10 minutes. Who are you inferring is the dumb cyclist here?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bychosis » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:07 am

I'll cop that my light was probably pointed a bit high. For more than a few other riders approaching I have used my hand to shield my light (mostly in pitch darkness). On this occasion it was just after dawn so there was other ambient light and I was not aware my light was pointing too high. Dumb other rider because if you want to encourage others to do the right thing being a jerk is not the best way. It just reinforced the arrogant lycra warrior stereotype.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:39 am

Hmmmmmmmm.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:04 pm

Doesn't matter much whether it's in darkness or after dawn, a light aimed in your eyes is pretty blinding. A very anti-social aspect of the current lumens race with no thought for good optic design.

Lighting up the overhead branches and dazzling oncoming riders and drivers does zip for your safety on the roads or paths.
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