The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Ross » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:44 pm

Having a recovery day today so just doing a cruisey ~15km commute to work. So I'm cruising down Nothbourne Ave (Canberra main road leads to CBD) in the bike lane and I'm just about to catch a group of other bike commuter and the traffic light turns red. The first 3 or so riders got through the light before it actually turned orange but the last guy just ignored it even though he was 100m away when it turned orange and so he sails through on red. Luckily another cyclist waiting to cross the road saw him and waited until red light runner had passed.

Light turns green and off I go and I catch up to a different commuter cyclist. No worries, I'll just cruise along behind him because the road is very busy so I can'treally overtake safely and I'm not really in a hurry to get to work anyway. I'm watching the traffic for any unusual movements and then a car about 50m in front turns on his left indicator. So I start slowing but commuter guy just keeps peddaling and undertakes the car. Lucklily the car driver is watching in the mirror and basically comes to a complete halt in the left lane of peak hour traffic to allow Mr Ignoramus to pass safely. I'm hanging back and wave to the car to turn, which they did after a bit of hesitation.

I continue on and catch up to Mr Ignoramus again and then he in turn catches up to a female commuter cyclist and he overtakes her. A reasonably safe move as he was lucky and there was a gap in the traffic. He keeps going and I'm behind the girl now.Traffic was too heavy for me to go around so I just at a couple of metres back and cruised along. Next minute a learner driver comes past and puts their left indicator on. Again I slow down, but lady cyclist doesn't see or doesn't care about the indicator and undertakes the car. Again, the driver is obviously looking in their mirrors and slow down to almost a stop to let her past safely while I hang back and wave them to turn.

I'm surprised there aren't cyclists hit by vehicles along this road every day. These cyclists seem to think that because they are in a bike lane (just a painted line on the road, not a seperated "copenhagen" lane) and wear a fluoro vest that they are invincible. They will find out otherwise very shortly if they keep it up. These people aren't the "lycra warriors" that Claire Harvey and friends write about, these are commuters on flat bar bikes, most of them wearing street clothes. I felt ashamed to be riding a bike today after the behaviour of these people.
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by BNA » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:56 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:56 pm

I see you are under the impression that a motorist putting their indicator on suddenly gives them the right to turn in front of cyclists. :| If a motorist has to wait and give way to a cyclist in an adjacent lane then how does that make it the cyclist fault?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby nezumi » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:59 pm

Ross wrote:I'm surprised there aren't cyclists hit by vehicles along this road every day. These cyclists seem to think that because they are in a bike lane (just a painted line on the road, not a seperated "copenhagen" lane) and wear a fluoro vest that they are invincible. They will find out otherwise very shortly if they keep it up. These people aren't the "lycra warriors" that Claire Harvey and friends write about, these are commuters on flat bar bikes, most of them wearing street clothes. I felt ashamed to be riding a bike today after the behaviour of these people.


Is the bike lane in question a Bike Lane, or is it *only* a painted lane? I.e. does it have signs at the start to indicate "Bike lane" and at the end saying "Bike Lane end" (or similar, with pictures instead of the word bike) and a lane marking on the left hand side?

If so, then the cyclists were in the right to continue straight, as the cars which indicated left have to merge into the lane to make a laft hand turn, rather than turning across the lane.

This is a point of great confusion and contention, as drivers *generally* won't have noticed whether or not the bike lane beside them is a formal lane or just pretty paint. If it is the former, they have to giveway to through traffic and merge as you would any other car lane. If the latter then bicycles have to give way to a vehicle which is both indicating left and in the process of turning left. - that is the *Vic* rules at least, although I am led to believe the rules are reasonably consistent on this one nationwide.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Gordonhooker » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:13 pm

To the idiot that was with the group of boy racers heading into town on the river walk bike track near the Go Between bridge at around 12:25 PM - if someone is coming toward you in their lane slow down and move into your own lane behind the person you are talking to. What an ignorant moron - there were pedestrians in the walking lanes and I had no where to go...
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:34 pm

The runner this morning in the city (young lady) who had to run right across the road against the red pedestrian light because she couldn't wait 15 seconds for the light to change to green. A bus was coming as were some other cars.

Example of pedestrian doing the wrong thing. Isn't it time they were made to have rego?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:37 pm

nezumi wrote:
Ross wrote:I'm surprised there aren't cyclists hit by vehicles along this road every day. These cyclists seem to think that because they are in a bike lane (just a painted line on the road, not a seperated "copenhagen" lane) and wear a fluoro vest that they are invincible. They will find out otherwise very shortly if they keep it up. These people aren't the "lycra warriors" that Claire Harvey and friends write about, these are commuters on flat bar bikes, most of them wearing street clothes. I felt ashamed to be riding a bike today after the behaviour of these people.


Is the bike lane in question a Bike Lane, or is it *only* a painted lane? I.e. does it have signs at the start to indicate "Bike lane" and at the end saying "Bike Lane end" (or similar, with pictures instead of the word bike) and a lane marking on the left hand side?

If so, then the cyclists were in the right to continue straight, as the cars which indicated left have to merge into the lane to make a laft hand turn, rather than turning across the lane.

This is a point of great confusion and contention, as drivers *generally* won't have noticed whether or not the bike lane beside them is a formal lane or just pretty paint. If it is the former, they have to giveway to through traffic and merge as you would any other car lane. If the latter then bicycles have to give way to a vehicle which is both indicating left and in the process of turning left. - that is the *Vic* rules at least, although I am led to believe the rules are reasonably consistent on this one nationwide.


Hmm, but if it is a painted line on the road (not a bike lane as per the requirements) and the car crosses the line to turn (eg. going from road lane to shoulder as one example), isn't that changing lines of traffic as they have crossed over a painted line on the road? If so, I would have thought the car would still have to give way to anyone already in the new line of traffic, irrespective of whether it is a defined 'bike lane' with the required sign on a post.

Cars are also required to obey lines painted on the roads, in addition to signs. If there are line markings continuing over intersections, then I say the car is changing lines of traffic and has to giveway to the next line of traffic in order to turn.

If there is no continuing line through the intersection then the undertaking bicycle riders should have given way.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:39 pm

human909 wrote:I see you are under the impression that a motorist putting their indicator on suddenly gives them the right to turn in front of cyclists. :| If a motorist has to wait and give way to a cyclist in an adjacent lane then how does that make it the cyclist fault?


Agree

Ross, it sounds like you did a nice thing (letting the cars turn in front of you) but the cyclists you mentioned didn't do anything wrong (apart from Mr Red Light Runner). Anyone turning left across a cycle lane must give way to any vehicle in that lane.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:47 pm

Summernight wrote:
nezumi wrote:
Ross wrote:I'm surprised there aren't cyclists hit by vehicles along this road every day. These cyclists seem to think that because they are in a bike lane (just a painted line on the road, not a seperated "copenhagen" lane) and wear a fluoro vest that they are invincible. They will find out otherwise very shortly if they keep it up. These people aren't the "lycra warriors" that Claire Harvey and friends write about, these are commuters on flat bar bikes, most of them wearing street clothes. I felt ashamed to be riding a bike today after the behaviour of these people.


Is the bike lane in question a Bike Lane, or is it *only* a painted lane? I.e. does it have signs at the start to indicate "Bike lane" and at the end saying "Bike Lane end" (or similar, with pictures instead of the word bike) and a lane marking on the left hand side?

If so, then the cyclists were in the right to continue straight, as the cars which indicated left have to merge into the lane to make a laft hand turn, rather than turning across the lane.

This is a point of great confusion and contention, as drivers *generally* won't have noticed whether or not the bike lane beside them is a formal lane or just pretty paint. If it is the former, they have to giveway to through traffic and merge as you would any other car lane. If the latter then bicycles have to give way to a vehicle which is both indicating left and in the process of turning left. - that is the *Vic* rules at least, although I am led to believe the rules are reasonably consistent on this one nationwide.


Hmm, but if it is a painted line on the road (not a bike lane as per the requirements) and the car crosses the line to turn (eg. going from road lane to shoulder as one example), isn't that changing lines of traffic as they have crossed over a painted line on the road? If so, I would have thought the car would still have to give way to anyone already in the new line of traffic, irrespective of whether it is a defined 'bike lane' with the required sign on a post.

Cars are also required to obey lines painted on the roads, in addition to signs. If there are line markings continuing over intersections, then I say the car is changing lines of traffic and has to giveway to the next line of traffic in order to turn.

If there is no continuing line through the intersection then the undertaking bicycle riders should have given way.


That's correct.

The only scenarios in which a cyclist is required to give way in this situation are:

1. There's no lines and the cyclists are simply filtering past on the left
2. The cyclist crosses either a broken or unbroken line to pass through the intersection
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Ross » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:39 pm

I thought cyclists only had the right of way if the area of the cycle lane was painted green. I am seeking further clarification on the matter from the police.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:47 pm

Ross wrote:I thought cyclists only had the right of way if the area of the cycle lane was painted green. I am seeking further clarification on the matter from the police.


The green paint has no meaning under the road rules - it is purely there to increase the prominence of potential conflict points.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby zero » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:17 pm

Summernight wrote:
Hmm, but if it is a painted line on the road (not a bike lane as per the requirements) and the car crosses the line to turn (eg. going from road lane to shoulder as one example), isn't that changing lines of traffic as they have crossed over a painted line on the road? If so, I would have thought the car would still have to give way to anyone already in the new line of traffic, irrespective of whether it is a defined 'bike lane' with the required sign on a post.



Line of traffic is the main legal constraint. Most jurisdictions even specifically have a rule such that the existence of a cycle lane doesn't in itself constitute the road being a multilane road, ie if I was a weasel representing someone, I'd be pretty sure to use line-of-traffic language at all times and nothing to do specifically with lanes.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Saturnstarzz » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:15 pm

Dumb cyclist was me for not seeing the flashing indicators (due to sun) on a stationery tram and for doing 37 in 30km/h zone on Swanston St near RMIT in Melbourne, according to plod. Two fines on the way for me :(. But what rack's me off is they "DIDNT" pull over the "hipster" who barreled past me 10 seconds before. Be warned City peeps election year, time to raise some revenue. Grrrr not happy.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:19 pm

Saturnstarzz wrote:Dumb cyclist was me for not seeing the flashing indicators (due to sun) on a stationery tram and for doing 37 in 30km/h zone on Swanston St near RMIT in Melbourne, according to plod.


There's a 30kph zone in Swanston Street??? Glad I don't ride that one then (although 30kph isn't overly easy for me unless on a downhill).
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby DavidS » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:23 am

Yeah, it is a 30 zone but I have no problems doing maybe 35.

The tram, stops are problematic since hardly anyone seems to know what they are - basically a road, tram stop and no safety zone.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:17 am

i find you cn tell where they are by the stopped trams :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby duncan16v » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:07 am

Percrime wrote:i find you cn tell where they are by the stopped trams :)


...and the big concrete barriers and lines on the road and people hanging around under the shelters and the signs saying "tram stop" are a bit of a hint. :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:16 pm

Mmm. But I,m pretty advanced at this skilled driving thing. I drove a BMW the other week and found the indicators. And I can often change into the other lane before coming close to a cyclist. I even find my neck works and I can turn my head to look at things
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:55 pm

This one from Soviet Union

http://youtu.be/gp6B6ZAu-3M

Skip to the 2 min 10 s mark
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Bah77 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:59 pm


Minor one, pedestrian steps out without looking, then as i think he'll keep going and i can pass him on the left he decides to look right and stops.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Biffidus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:31 pm

herzog wrote:This one from Soviet Union

http://youtu.be/gp6B6ZAu-3M

Skip to the 2 min 10 s mark


Removed by user :(
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby QuangVuong » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:33 pm

Ill give you a hint. Its got to do with a wheelie, the rider's face and the pavement. :?
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The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby queequeg » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:33 pm

From today's NSW Police Update:-

Some incidents that occurred during day two of the operation included:

- At 7.30am yesterday (Saturday 7 June 2014), a 55-year-old man was riding a bicycle with a group of cyclists on Syd Einfeld Drive, Bondi Junction, when he allegedly disobeyed a red traffic light, leaving the group who all stopped. Police stopped the man, who allegedly provided false information. He was issued a Field Court Attendance notice for supply false name and home address, disobey red light, and ride bicycle without a warning device. The man will appear at Waverley Local Court on Wednesday 16 July 2014.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:39 pm

queequeg wrote:From today's NSW Police Update:-

Some incidents that occurred during day two of the operation included:

- At 7.30am yesterday (Saturday 7 June 2014), a 55-year-old man was riding a bicycle with a group of cyclists on Syd Einfeld Drive, Bondi Junction, when he allegedly disobeyed a red traffic light, leaving the group who all stopped. Police stopped the man, who allegedly provided false information. He was issued a Field Court Attendance notice for supply false name and home address, disobey red light, and ride bicycle without a warning device. The man will appear at Waverley Local Court on Wednesday 16 July 2014.


hmmm. supplying false details will cost you a lot more than a red light fine
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby queequeg » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:40 pm

jasonc wrote:
queequeg wrote:From today's NSW Police Update:-

Some incidents that occurred during day two of the operation included:

- At 7.30am yesterday (Saturday 7 June 2014), a 55-year-old man was riding a bicycle with a group of cyclists on Syd Einfeld Drive, Bondi Junction, when he allegedly disobeyed a red traffic light, leaving the group who all stopped. Police stopped the man, who allegedly provided false information. He was issued a Field Court Attendance notice for supply false name and home address, disobey red light, and ride bicycle without a warning device. The man will appear at Waverley Local Court on Wednesday 16 July 2014.


hmmm. supplying false details will cost you a lot more than a red light fine



....and then they pinged him for no bell, probably because he was being a jerk :-)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:40 pm

Sounds like he dug a hole for himself and kept digging.
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