The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

fat and old
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby fat and old » Tue May 08, 2018 10:46 am

CrankNFurter wrote:My frustration reached the point of signing up to post - I'm a regular commuter in the Melb inner north, and face regular moron behaviour from a minority of fellow riders. My issue is riding two abreast on 2-way shared paths while there is plenty of oncoming traffic and often also a line of others wanting to pass. I experienced this from a couple of oblivious nobs and couldn't help myself from shouting keep left d****** when I finally managed to get past. Very rare for me to get down into the gutter, but it was like the 3rd time on that very ride.
(After my display of heroism I demonstrated my excellent aerobic capacity by blowing away at high speed - assisted by all the other riders politely keeping left...)
Is this a "thing"? Do others have this experience?


Yes, it is. Very common on most shared paths; closer you get to the inner city the worse it gets. Not everyone's in a rush to get to work, or even going to work. Lots of people just going from a to b with their friends, parents taking kids to school, etc etc. It will help to put this into an on-road context. Those two abreast riders are the cyclists pedalling along St Georges Rd. where there are parked cars. You're the car that wants to get past. You saw a chance, blew them into the weeds and then casually passed all of the cyclists in front "doing the right thing". Get it? :wink:

Those meet up groups are the worst....they actually get righteous if you don't hug the far left so they can cruise through.

No offence is meant here btw. Just putting forth a different viewpoint.

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue May 08, 2018 10:56 am

CrankNFurter wrote:My frustration reached the point of signing up to post - I'm a regular commuter in the Melb inner north, and face regular moron behaviour from a minority of fellow riders. My issue is riding two abreast on 2-way shared paths while there is plenty of oncoming traffic and often also a line of others wanting to pass. I experienced this from a couple of oblivious nobs and couldn't help myself from shouting keep left d****** when I finally managed to get past. Very rare for me to get down into the gutter, but it was like the 3rd time on that very ride.
(After my display of heroism I demonstrated my excellent aerobic capacity by blowing away at high speed - assisted by all the other riders politely keeping left...)
Is this a "thing"? Do others have this experience? I could go on and make the same complaint about oncoming riders riding hands off - even pattering along at 20kmh gives you a closing speed of 40. All you need is a pebble under the hands-off rider's wheel and you're picking out your teeth out of the grass. Apparently its actually illegal in some jurisdictions to do this - if you want to show off at least do it when no one is oncoming.
I don't want to encourage incivility out there, but this is a serious safety issue.


I get 2 abreast riders a bit on shared paths in Adelaide, but not to the point that I've had trouble passing. But what you are describing sounds inconsiderate.

Riding no hands is illegal by Australian Road Rule 245, which I believe applies Australia wide. I admit I did it all the time when I was a child and teenager, but even back then I wasn't silly enough to do it when riding past other cyclists. And I honestly don't see the point, other than to show off.

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue May 08, 2018 11:00 am

fat and old wrote: Those two abreast riders are the cyclists pedalling along St Georges Rd. where there are parked cars. You're the car that wants to get past.


That's rather different, because the cyclist riding out of the door zone is doing so for safety reasons.

human909
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby human909 » Tue May 08, 2018 11:32 am

CrankNFurter wrote:I could go on and make the same complaint about oncoming riders riding hands off - even pattering along at 20kmh gives you a closing speed of 40. All you need is a pebble under the hands-off rider's wheel and you're picking out your teeth out of the grass.

Um. You are a long way away from reality there. A pebble under a wheel causing you to pick teeth out of the grass!? You are kidding right?

A skilled rider can readily negotiate speed gravel, speed humps, potholes and 90 degree bends without hands on the handle bars. (Probably best not all attempted at the same time :wink: )

And what about unicyclists? They don't even have handle bars! :P But as far as they go, I'd probably be a safety risk riding one. :oops:

CrankNFurter wrote:if you want to show off at least do it when no one is oncoming.

I agree that when facing uncertainty in your environment such as on coming traffic, dogs, kids, etc... It is safer to have your hands covering the brakes. But I might suggest that you are overreacting there regarding the risks compared to the run of the mill type stuff.

CrankNFurter wrote:I don't want to encourage incivility out there, but this is a serious safety issue.

On the scale of things I would rate it pretty far down the list. (I can't say I have ever seen a cyclist doing this in an unsafe environment.)

Jmuzz
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby Jmuzz » Tue May 08, 2018 12:05 pm

CrankNFurter wrote:. My issue is riding two abreast on 2-way shared paths while there is plenty of oncoming traffic and often also a line of others wanting to pass.


It is actually their full lane and there is no right to pass in the same lane.

A flaw in pathway design really, they should divide the lane into two thinner lanes if congestion in both directions is a problem.

Otherwise it leads into single file unless overtaking rules, which do have a good chance of happening.

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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby Cyclophiliac » Tue May 08, 2018 12:27 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
CrankNFurter wrote:My frustration reached the point of signing up to post - I'm a regular commuter in the Melb inner north, and face regular moron behaviour from a minority of fellow riders. My issue is riding two abreast on 2-way shared paths while there is plenty of oncoming traffic and often also a line of others wanting to pass. I experienced this from a couple of oblivious nobs and couldn't help myself from shouting keep left d****** when I finally managed to get past. Very rare for me to get down into the gutter, but it was like the 3rd time on that very ride.
(After my display of heroism I demonstrated my excellent aerobic capacity by blowing away at high speed - assisted by all the other riders politely keeping left...)
Is this a "thing"? Do others have this experience? I could go on and make the same complaint about oncoming riders riding hands off - even pattering along at 20kmh gives you a closing speed of 40. All you need is a pebble under the hands-off rider's wheel and you're picking out your teeth out of the grass. Apparently its actually illegal in some jurisdictions to do this - if you want to show off at least do it when no one is oncoming.
I don't want to encourage incivility out there, but this is a serious safety issue.


I get 2 abreast riders a bit on shared paths in Adelaide, but not to the point that I've had trouble passing. But what you are describing sounds inconsiderate.

Riding no hands is illegal by Australian Road Rule 245, which I believe applies Australia wide. I admit I did it all the time when I was a child and teenager, but even back then I wasn't silly enough to do it when riding past other cyclists. And I honestly don't see the point, other than to show off.

The Australian Road Rules only advise. To know what's legal or not in each State, we need to reference that State's rules.

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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue May 08, 2018 12:47 pm

Cyclophiliac wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:
CrankNFurter wrote:I could go on and make the same complaint about oncoming riders riding hands off - even pattering along at 20kmh gives you a closing speed of 40. All you need is a pebble under the hands-off rider's wheel and you're picking out your teeth out of the grass. Apparently its actually illegal in some jurisdictions to do this - if you want to show off at least do it when no one is oncoming.
I don't want to encourage incivility out there, but this is a serious safety issue.


Riding no hands is illegal by Australian Road Rule 245, which I believe applies Australia wide. I admit I did it all the time when I was a child and teenager, but even back then I wasn't silly enough to do it when riding past other cyclists. And I honestly don't see the point, other than to show off.

The Australian Road Rules only advise. To know what's legal or not in each State, we need to reference that State's rules.


This link is under "legislation.vic.gov.au" so I assume it confirms that Rule 245 applies in Victoria http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domin ... orised.pdf

human909 wrote:
CrankNFurter wrote:I don't want to encourage incivility out there, but this is a serious safety issue.

On the scale of things I would rate it pretty far down the list. (I can't say I have ever seen a cyclist doing this in an unsafe environment.)


Maybe it's low in frequency, but it's high in severity: I can't think of many worse hazards on a shared path than an unpredictable cyclist. Like you, I can't remember seeing a cyclist riding no hands in a way which made me feel unsafe, but I've also never seen a cyclist doing it for any other apparent reason than trying to look cool.

fat and old
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby fat and old » Tue May 08, 2018 1:43 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
fat and old wrote: Those two abreast riders are the cyclists pedalling along St Georges Rd. where there are parked cars. You're the car that wants to get past.


That's rather different, because the cyclist riding out of the door zone is doing so for safety reasons.


Yeah, what I was getting at was riding outside the bike lane, during off peak hours. See here (St Georges Rd at Capitol City Trail crossing)

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.780 ... 312!8i6656

During peak it's a clearway, and those cycle lanes are chocka block. Outside of peak, it's parking, and the accepted norm is that cycles will use the road left of the tramline yellow line, and cars the tram line. You still get cars trying to straddle both though. I used that as a reference due to his stated location.

No disagreeing with the stay outta the door lane bit.

FWIW, he's more than likely referring to that trail..

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.779 ... 312!8i6656

Cycle traffic can be insane in the peak.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Uncle Just » Tue May 08, 2018 1:59 pm

Like you, I can't remember seeing a cyclist riding no hands in a way which made me feel unsafe, but I've also never seen a cyclist doing it for any other apparent reason than trying to look cool.

I've had idiots riding no hands looking at their phones on shared paths crossing onto my side and seen it done while training on the bumpadrome. Too cool to stop and pull over to make the call. There are a few reasons to ride no hands, eg taking off items of clothing, getting stuff from the rear pockets, relieving the pressure of a bad back or just having a stretch. I sometimes ride no hands but not on busy paths. Sometimes I ride up inclines no hands to ease my back. It's a rudimentary skill but should only be done when safe to do so.

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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby human909 » Tue May 08, 2018 2:22 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:Maybe it's low in frequency, but it's high in severity.

Is it? I would have thought that cyclists engaging in high speed descending can have more severe consequences. But I don't see too many people suggesting speed limits for cyclists.....

AdelaidePeter wrote:I've also never seen a cyclist doing it for any other apparent reason than trying to look cool.


Your ability to discern the motives of a person by looking at them are astounding and an incredible skill.

I often ride no hands. If looking 'cool' was my motivation then you haven't seen my fashion. :lol:


What is the Australian obsession with trying to tell others how to live their lives. Its as if we don't get it enough from our governing authorities. We need more from other cyclists. :roll:

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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby g-boaf » Tue May 08, 2018 2:40 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
CrankNFurter wrote:My frustration reached the point of signing up to post - I'm a regular commuter in the Melb inner north, and face regular moron behaviour from a minority of fellow riders. My issue is riding two abreast on 2-way shared paths while there is plenty of oncoming traffic and often also a line of others wanting to pass. I experienced this from a couple of oblivious nobs and couldn't help myself from shouting keep left d****** when I finally managed to get past. Very rare for me to get down into the gutter, but it was like the 3rd time on that very ride.
(After my display of heroism I demonstrated my excellent aerobic capacity by blowing away at high speed - assisted by all the other riders politely keeping left...)
Is this a "thing"? Do others have this experience? I could go on and make the same complaint about oncoming riders riding hands off - even pattering along at 20kmh gives you a closing speed of 40. All you need is a pebble under the hands-off rider's wheel and you're picking out your teeth out of the grass. Apparently its actually illegal in some jurisdictions to do this - if you want to show off at least do it when no one is oncoming.
I don't want to encourage incivility out there, but this is a serious safety issue.


I get 2 abreast riders a bit on shared paths in Adelaide, but not to the point that I've had trouble passing. But what you are describing sounds inconsiderate.

Riding no hands is illegal by Australian Road Rule 245, which I believe applies Australia wide. I admit I did it all the time when I was a child and teenager, but even back then I wasn't silly enough to do it when riding past other cyclists. And I honestly don't see the point, other than to show off.


Riding no hands is a pretty useful skill if you need to take off arm warmers, a gillet or something like that. Or even things like swapping bottles around. It's probably only "showing off" if you don't have the ability to do so yourself.

human909 wrote:Is it? I would have thought that cyclists engaging in high speed descending can have more severe consequences. But I don't see too many people suggesting speed limits for cyclists.....


Slow speed descending is probably even more dangerous because someone is probably riding the brakes all the time to keep the speed down. It's probably the worst thing for someone not used to really high speed (and I don't mean 50km/h, I'm thinking 70km/h+)

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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby human909 » Tue May 08, 2018 2:51 pm

g-boaf wrote:Slow speed descending is probably even more dangerous because someone is probably riding the brakes all the time to keep the speed down. It's probably the worst thing for someone not used to really high speed (and I don't mean 50km/h, I'm thinking 70km/h+)

All of which is more risky than pootling around town dutch style occasionally without hands on the handlebars.

(PS. Descending and riding the brakes at a slow speed is safer. There is nothing wrong with riding the brakes at slow speeds (eg 20kph or so) It is the middling speeds on long steep descents that have the ability to overcook your brakes.) But none of that is particularly relevant here.

fat and old
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby fat and old » Tue May 08, 2018 3:30 pm

g-boaf wrote:Riding no hands is a pretty useful skill if you need to take off arm warmers, a gillet or something like that. Or even things like swapping bottles around. It's probably only "showing off" if you don't have the ability to do so yourself.




My mate loves doing that in front of me....ever since I stroked out my balance is garbage and I cannot ride no hands anymore :lol:

Slow speed descending is probably even more dangerous because someone is probably riding the brakes all the time to keep the speed down. It's probably the worst thing for someone not used to really high speed (and I don't mean 50km/h, I'm thinking 70km/h+)


Why is that more dangerous? Serious question.

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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby fat and old » Tue May 08, 2018 3:33 pm

human909 wrote:
What is the Australian obsession with trying to tell others how to live their lives. Its as if we don't get it enough from our governing authorities. We need more from other cyclists. :roll:

Image
Image


To be fair, none of those pics bare any similarity to the situation the OP describes Human. You know that, you've ridden the same areas at the same times. (and to be fair again, I've seen all of the above in those areas, at those times :lol: )

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue May 08, 2018 3:37 pm

g-boaf wrote:Riding no hands is a pretty useful skill if you need to take off arm warmers, a gillet or something like that. Or even things like swapping bottles around. It's probably only "showing off" if you don't have the ability to do so yourself.


It's still illegal (at the very least in Vic and SA; I haven't checked if it's illegal in all states but I suspect it is). It's fine on a closed road, but in normal driving/riding conditions, it's got to affect your ability to react to a hazard. I also reckon I could do any of the above legally, with one hand on the handlebars.

If you want do it on an empty road or path, and risk a fine, go ahead. But I agree with the OP that it shouldn't be done in the vicinity of other cyclists (or pedestrians) who don't know you. It's just an added risk to others, and a completely unnecessary one.

g-boaf wrote:
human909 wrote:Is it? I would have thought that cyclists engaging in high speed descending can have more severe consequences. But I don't see too many people suggesting speed limits for cyclists.....


Slow speed descending is probably even more dangerous because someone is probably riding the brakes all the time to keep the speed down. It's probably the worst thing for someone not used to really high speed (and I don't mean 50km/h, I'm thinking 70km/h+)


Bear in mind I said "on a shared path" ("I can't think of many worse hazards on a shared path than an unpredictable cyclist"). I agree that a cyclist going too fast on a shared path is even more dangerous.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby CrankNFurter » Tue May 08, 2018 9:06 pm

Thank you for your responses. I definitely feel embarrassed about losing my cool (the only other time I ever abused someone out there was a driver who almost killed me). I want to emphasise this wasn't primarily an issue of not being able to get past a couple of guys - there was a constant stream of oncoming traffic - at brisk pace, so the pair were forcing oncoming riders to the latter's own extreme left just to stay off the grass. I face the latter situation quite frequently as the oncoming rider (for some reason it happens a lot through Edinbgh Gardens). It was probably this that really prompted my outburst.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Arbuckle23 » Thu May 10, 2018 9:53 am

Finishing off my evening ride in the dark for the last few km (normal for this time of year).
On a road with no street lights I could (barely) see a very dull glow up ahead. As I got closer I could make out that is either someone walking with a very dull torch or a cyclist with a very dull headlight.

Got to about 50 metres and worked out it was a cyclist with no taillight and that very dull headlight.
At my approach speed of about 35 km/h I could barely make it out. It is an 80 km/h zone, so a car driver would struggle even more.
I am lit up like a christmas tree to make sure I am seen, a car driver may have got a shock coming across him (could make him out when my headlight washed over him).

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby BJL » Thu May 10, 2018 10:05 am

Just on the subject of lights, a friendly reminder to ensure your lights are visible at all times.

A while ago I was walking my dog just after sunset when I saw a cyclist ride by with NO rear light. It wasn't until he had to stop at a nearby intersection when he straightened up to reveal he had a rear light mounted on his helmet, which was totally obscured by his backpack when actually riding. This guy might have thought he was doing the right thing and was visible from behind when in actual fact he was almost invisible.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Thu May 10, 2018 10:32 am

That was me last night - riding up a narrow bridge, had my head down & not paying enough attention & didn't see the oncoming cyclist till the last second. Fortunately (1) he was paying attention (2) we were both going slowly so no harm done. Apology given & I slunk home

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Sat May 12, 2018 1:13 pm



250w...sure

bizarre bike. flat bar with ski bars
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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Riding 2 abreast on 2way paths

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat May 12, 2018 5:43 pm

human909 wrote:A skilled rider can readily negotiate speed gravel, speed humps, potholes and 90 degree bends without hands on the handle bars. (Probably best not all attempted at the same time :wink: )


Maybe, with SOME bikes - the closer to the geometry of a chopper the more so.

But with racing geometry so much favoured by so many that take their riding seriously - reduced rake, reduced offset and short wheelbase - it doesn't take much to knock those bikes off line and out of control. I've seen it happen from time to time and I'm sure that those riders also thought their skills were up to the job too.

It's not necessary and so should be avoided. Or ride a unicycle. :mrgreen:
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Sat May 12, 2018 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jasonc
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:09 pm


250w yeah right
after this he hit sylvan rd and rode down the wrong side. because salmoning is cool
and people wonder why ebikes need to be registered.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:20 pm

beautiful morning for a ride! :D

fat and old
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fat and old » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:22 pm

jasonc wrote:
250w yeah right
after this he hit sylvan rd and rode down the wrong side. because salmoning is cool
and people wonder why ebikes need to be registered.


What was he looking at? Couldn't believe you caught him?

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby piledhigher » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:33 pm

jasonc wrote:
250w yeah right
after this he hit sylvan rd and rode down the wrong side. because salmoning is cool
and people wonder why ebikes need to be registered.


I think the real problem is idiots need to be registered...

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